Step-by-step, how the Bills knew Josh Allen was right for them

[eball]

So Brandon Beane, Brian Daboll, and the Bills' coaches watched every snap of Allen's and are convinced his footwork is really the only issue that impacts his accuracy, yet GunnerBill and Hapless Bills Fan claim they don't see the same things on film.

 

No offense or disrespect, guys, but I think I know whose opinion I'll side with at the moment.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, eball said:

So Brandon Beane, Brian Daboll, and the Bills' coaches watched every snap of Allen's and are convinced his footwork is really the only issue that impacts his accuracy, yet GunnerBill and Hapless Bills Fan claim they don't see the same things on film.

 

No offense or disrespect, guys, but I think I know whose opinion I'll side with at the moment.

 

Take whoever's opinion you like. I think Brandon Beane and Brain Daboll are wrong.  They don't have exclusivity on being right.  

Edited July 20, 2018 by GunnerBill

[Sky Diver]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Probably because a programme like Wyoming gets far less coverage than a programme like UCLA? Look we know you hate Josh Rosen - it's a personal dislike you have. That's fine.  Everything you say about him should be viewed through that prism.  

 

Well, no.

 

I’ve explained my concerns about Rosen’s ability many times, including in this thread.

 

Allen’s issues get amplified while Rosen’s get muted for some reason.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Sky Diver said:

 

Well, no.

 

I’ve explained my concerns about Rosen’s ability many times, including in this thread.

 

Allen’s issues get amplified while Rosen’s get muted for some reason.

 

You haven't.  You just keep saying "he's overhyped", he is "not that intelligent".  Which bits of his game do you not think are good? 

[C.Biscuit97]

10 minutes ago, eball said:

So Brandon Beane, Brian Daboll, and the Bills' coaches watched every snap of Allen's and are convinced his footwork is really the only issue that impacts his accuracy, yet GunnerBill and Hapless Bills Fan claim they don't see the same things on film.

 

No offense or disrespect, guys, but I think I know whose opinion I'll side with at the moment.

Eball, you’ve always been a good guy, but what is the point of this?  It’s an opinion message board.  And just because you’re an nfl coach, your opinion is 100% correct?  Sam Wyche, who had a much better resume than Brian Daboll, thought he could work with JP Losman.  

 

Also, who is the pro QB prospect Daboll has ever developed?  What have McBeane done to show us they know how to identify offensive players?  I’m glad so many Bills fans are positive about Allen.  But it’s also ok to dubious of the pick, especially after some of the offensive moves so far and the general history of the Bills picking the wrong qb.

8 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Well, no.

 

I’ve explained my concerns about Rosen’s ability many times, including in this thread.

 

Allen’s issues get amplified while Rosen’s get muted for some reason.

Because Rosen was a better qb in a better conference.  It’s so hard to evaluate qbs but inaccuracy is the one deficiency that is the hardest to overcome.

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Take whoever's opinion you like. I think Brandon Beane and Brain Daboll are wrong.  They don't have exclusivity on being right.  

It just blows my mind that people think because a person holds a position they are infallible.  

 

The President of the US is always right because he’s the President!

[BigBuff423]

9 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah.  I think McDermott has all the power on this team.  I fully trust him on defensive.  Besides Dawkins, their offensive player evaluations have been really bad.  It’s only been a year but we’re asking a guy who has been on defense his whole career to make a major call on a qb.   That’s a huge risk imo. 

 

Ok, I get that you don't like the Josh Allen pick and you've clearly indicated why, fair enough. But I take issue with your statement, "their offensive player evaluations have been really bad". Considering the mess Beane and McD inherited related to the Cap and aging Offensive players, how so?

 

They trade a 3rd for Benjamin in a year when at the time they were 5-2 and needed an outside WR to help Tyrod. Benjamin got hurt and struggled, but were they supposed to be able to project that?

 

Zay had 399 catches in the NCAA, a guy doesn't "forget" how to catch a ball unlike speedsters in college who can't really play ball in the NFL. Then we find out he had a torn labrum for the entire year, which can make it difficult to get extension on making catches not to mention "The Trip" in the Jets game just as he was rounding into form....go back and look at that game and you can see how he was just starting to put it together and then that ugly, cheap shot changed his trajectory in combination with the aforementioned shoulder injury. Dawkins as you said so far has shown tremendous promise. 

 

Beane went out got much deeper, although questionable the level of talent, on the Offensive line with four year starter in Bodine and Newhouse who can play both RT and G. It was painfully obvious Beane committed to clearing the Cap, taking the hit this year, and moving forward. Kerley has made his living in the slot, Benjamin and Zay both *should* be healthy making a real difference, and then in the Draft got speedy, shifty WRs like Proehl and Ray-Ray the return guy from Clemson. THEN in UDFA got Foster to come to Buffalo who also adds more speed and RAC type of play. Who knows how Proehl, Ray-Ray (for returns) and Foster do for the Bills - IF they do anything. But to say Beane and McD's picks or choices in FA have been "really bad" is so presumptuous it's asinine. And keep in mind, Teller the G from VT, was considered a steal by many Draftniks saying he had a 3rd to 4th round grade and PFF had him ranked much higher. Again, who knows how he plays, but he *could* be the Offensive Line version of the 5th Round pick Kyle Williams. Point being at this point, we just don't know....and I'm ok with trusting them considering what they've done thus far, and yet knowing it all needs to be proven before we start talking about them in effusive glowing praise. 

 

I don't know how Allen will do or Zay or Teller or any of the others. But what I do know, is this current FO and HC and staff have already shown they know how to coach, get players at bargain or fair prices, and willing to adjust or admit they need change, see exit Dennison and enter Daboll. All the while slitting that monkey's throat that sat on our backs for so long he was about to enter college. 

 

All that said, we'll see.....but for now, I'll take it. And still, to be able to decisively say their decisions for Offense have been anything other than unknown presumes your insight to be true and obviously you overvalue your own opinion. 

[eball]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Eball, you’ve always been a good guy, but what is the point of this?  It’s an opinion message board.  And just because you’re an nfl coach, your opinion is 100% correct?  Sam Wyche, who had a much better resume than Brian Daboll, thought he could work with JP Losman.  

 

Also, who is the pro QB prospect Daboll has ever developed?  What have McBeane done to show us they know how to identify offensive players?  I’m glad so many Bills fans are positive about Allen.  But it’s also ok to dubious of the pick, especially after some of the offensive moves so far and the general history of the Bills picking the wrong qb.

 

What is the point of posting over and over again that you believe there is "overwhelming evidence" Allen will fail?  It's ridiculous.  Several of you are so invested in being the guys who "knew" Allen wouldn't pan out it's really pretty annoying, and I don't know what purpose that serves.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

What is the point of posting over and over again that you believe there is "overwhelming evidence" Allen will fail?  It's ridiculous.  Several of you are so invested in being the guys who "knew" Allen wouldn't pan out it's really pretty annoying, and I don't know what purpose that serves.

 

No, no, no, no. I am not invested in Allen not panning out.  Not at all. I'm invested in him panning out. It is possible to want one thing and think another.  

[Sky Diver]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You haven't.  You just keep saying "he's overhyped", he is "not that intelligent".  Which bits of his game do you not think are good? 

 

Toggle up through this thread.

[Nihilarian]

First of all, Beane stated he thought Allen's footwork most of his time in college wasn't very good and this was absolutely the primary cause of that 56% completion percentage. Then he went on to say that while watching him in the senior bowl he noticed that his footwork had improved and thus his accuracy improved. 

 

Allen stated to Mike Mayock at the combine that he knew his footwork was bad in college and that nobody had ever worked with him to correct that issue at Wyoming. All offseason Allen has been working with the QB guru who worked with DeShaun Watson last year in Jordan Palmer. And they have been working to correct that footwork among other things. To quote Palmer..."We've fixed it,'' said Palmer.  https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/03/jordan_palmer_on_browns_candid.html

 

READ THAT ARTICLE! 

 

There is a very real reason as to why Beane and McD drafted Allen over Rosen.

[Sky Diver]

No flaws in Rosen’s game? Hmm.

 

 

Better lucky than good? Maybe so. Or maybe just play against a bad defense?

 

Watch the second half. There were several ill advised passes that should have been intercepted that went for big plays.

 

https://youtu.be/ym5CEEJeUJQ

[Nihilarian]

On another note about Josh Allen. Here is Trent Dilfer and John BrenKus talking about this years QB class on Rich Eisen's show about their "soul and science" work.

 

 

Great stuff. 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

No flaws in Rosen’s game? Hmm.

 

 

Who said there were no flaws?  My scouting report was very clear what the flaws were.  I think his flaws are fewer in number and less serious in nature than the other Quarterbacks in this year's draft and many in previous drafts too.  

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No, no, no, no. I am not invested in Allen not panning out.  Not at all. I'm invested in him panning out. It is possible to want one thing and think another.  

You and I have had this discussion before so I apologize for the redundancy. As I said previously there is a significant discrepancy with your assessment of Allen and how the draft and how the draft actually unfolded. For the teams that were making it a priority to get a qb he was ranked very highly. Without question those qb needy teams (at least 5) had him rated in the top 10 to 15 in the first round. In contrast, you had him as a third round prospect. It's just too off kilter with what actually transpired in the draft for your evaluation to seem reasonable to me. 

 

In this qb class I liked Rosen a lot. On the other hand I would have been more than elated with any of the top qbs. I'm not assuming you are wrong but I am very perplexed how you arrived at your conclusion while being so far from the  mainstream point of view. Being an outlier is being an outlier. And there is nothing wrong with that. However, with respect to your assessment on Allen you have me very befuddled. 

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

First of all, Beane stated he thought Allen's footwork most of his time in college wasn't very good and this was absolutely the primary cause of that 56% completion percentage. Then he went on to say that while watching him in the senior bowl he noticed that his footwork had improved and thus his accuracy improved. 

 

Allen stated to Mike Mayock at the combine that he knew his footwork was bad in college and that nobody had ever worked with him to correct that issue at Wyoming. All offseason Allen has been working with the QB guru who worked with DeShaun Watson last year in Jordan Palmer. And they have been working to correct that footwork among other things. To quote Palmer..."We've fixed it,'' said Palmer.  https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/03/jordan_palmer_on_browns_candid.html

 

READ THAT ARTICLE! 

 

There is a very real reason as to why Beane and McD drafted Allen over Rosen.

 

And if Palmer has fixed it then it will show up on the football field and I will be very happy.  

[Sky Diver]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Who said there were no flaws?  My scouting report was very clear what the flaws were.  I think his flaws are fewer in number and less serious in nature than the other Quarterbacks in this year's draft and many in previous drafts too.  

 

Do your’s jibe with mine?

 

And I think Allen is a better prospect. Reasonable people can disagree.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Sky Diver

[GunnerBill]

Just now, JohnC said:

You and I have had this discussion before so I apologize for the redundancy. As I said previously there is a significant discrepancy with your assessment of Allen and how the draft and how the draft actually unfolded. For the teams that were making it a priority to get a qb he was ranked very highly. Without question those qb needy teams (at least 5) had him rated in the top 10 to 15 in the first round. In contrast, you had him as a third round prospect. It's just too off kilter with what actually transpired in the draft for your evaluation to seem reasonable to me. 

 

In this qb class I liked Rosen a lot. On the other hand I would have been more than elated with any of the top qbs. I'm not assuming you are wrong but I am very perplexed how you arrived at your conclusion while being so far from the  mainstream point of view. Being an outlier is being an outlier. And there is nothing wrong with that. However, with respect to your assessment on Allen you have me very befuddled. 

 

I arrived there watching the film.  I have also said repeatedly I get less wowed by ceiling than NFL teams. They often seem to like high ceiling projects much more than I do. That is true of Allen, Mahomes, Kaepernick etc... 

[Nihilarian]

This article is from the Rochester D&C and backs up what I posted earlier about Allen's backstory. (page 4) Just saw this article this morning though.

 

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2018/07/19/josh-allen-buffalo-bills-quarterback-first-round-nfl-draft-pick-university-wyoming-firebaugh-farm/783231002/

 

 

[The Jokeman]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And if Palmer has fixed it then it will show up on the football field and I will be very happy.  

Beane went on record to say Allen isn't fixed yet but improving. My bigger concerned is he only improved on a practice/all star game field that once he the bullets start firing for real again his old instincts will kick back in. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Glad their Kindrid spirits. Now can we see the baby?