C.Biscuit97 Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 Mike Tolbert 7 hours ago, whatdrought said: I feel like Fletcher should be as high, or higher than Takeo. Fletch was far more consistent and was the center of the D when he was here. TK only really had about 2-3 good years with us. The best part is some Bills fans bashed Fletcher because he made too many tackles down field! 20 hours ago, MJS said: I don't think Owens should be on this list. Mario Williams should be higher. He was really good for multiple years. People seem to only want to remember his final year. Mario was a great signing. Rex helped it but it was crazy how fast he fell off. He was possibly the best DE in 2014
Happy Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 On 7/18/2018 at 9:53 PM, BuffaloRush said: 8. Mario Williams - Torn on this selections. Stats wise Mario's stint in Buffalo was good, but I don't think he lived up to his huge contract. Also things ended horribly. Completely agree with this take; it's spot on. Kudos to Buddy Nix for bringing Mario to Buffalo at a time when the Bills needed a big splash FA to help jump start the franchise during a time when things looked desolate. Mario didn't live up to his contract, but IMO his presence helped bring in other FAs, and is one reason why things turned around and are looking brighter now. Nobody wanted to come to Buffalo in 2012. Things ended horribly because Rex is an idiot. Here is the quote regarding Mario: “Mario Williams, yeah, but he is making $17 million dollars [in Miami]. Guess what, it wasn’t going to happen. Now look, with some of the comments [he made], do I wish him well? Not really. But, he’s on Miami. If he would have gone somewhere else, maybe. He’s a good kid, but I am used to some mean motherf—ers that play out there. The Terrell Suggs, Jarrett Johnsons of the world. I screwed them, too; I had them drop [into coverage], too. Not one of them bitched. Von Miller [dropped into coverage] in the Super Bowl. Why? Because that’s what’s asked of him; that’s what his job is. Your job is to play. Coaches spend a hell of a lot more time studying tape and everything else. They are trying to put the team in the best position to be successful, not an individual.” Rex's defense was so dysfunctional - he had Dlinemen dropping into coverage and DBs rushing the QB. I don't blame Mario for bitching; he did so because hard head Rex didn't listen to in house criticism and suggestions.
BigDingus Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 Williams deserves to be top 3. He was a HUGE signing at the time, and really came out of nowhere. He was one of the hottest free agents, and in his prime, and Ralph actually allowed the FO to spend big time money on getting him here. On top of it, he played very well, and helped anchor a defense that was leading the league in sacks for a couple of years. He was named among the top 100 NFL players in the league by his peers, AND embraced the city. Driving around on his snowplow, helping drive people around in blizzard conditions, the guy was really having fun in Buffalo. Also, he played through injuries, and only missed 1 game in 4 seasons with us. 2012 - 10.5 sacks 2013 - 13.0 sacks 2014 - 14.5 sacks 2015 - 5.0 sacks Seems to me like he was on a roll, all while being a definite focal point for opposing teams to plan against. Suddenly he, along with the rest of our defense, plummets in production when Rex the "defensive guru" rolls into town... Mario could've been like so many other big name FA signings that landed a record contract & fallen off the map, no longer hungry to produce. He didn't. For that I'll remember his time here fondly. Just remember, he didn't b*** or moan whatsoever until Rex completely ruined an otherwise fantastic defensive unit. I don't blame him at all. 1 2
vincec Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 20 hours ago, Steve O said: UDFA's are still FA's. Add Pat Williams and Jason Peters. Bump TO and Christie. Even if we're not counting UDFA's, Hauschka should replace Christie for the kicker spot. You’re nuts. 7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Mike Tolbert The best part is some Bills fans bashed Fletcher because he made too many tackles down field! Mario was a great signing. Rex helped it but it was crazy how fast he fell off. He was possibly the best DE in 2014 I had it explained to me many time that making a lot of tackles is bad.
Bill from NYC Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 9 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: Rex's defense was so dysfunctional - he had Dlinemen dropping into coverage and DBs rushing the QB. I don't blame Mario for bitching; he did so because hard head Rex didn't listen to in house criticism and suggestions. You Sir, are 100% correct. Ryan, the alleged tough guy, used a pansy ass defense in Buffalo. It was similar the non-aggressive embarrassment that Jauron used. Jauron liked to send Schobel into coverage when he was the only good pass rusher on the entire team. Amazing.
Bing Bong Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 I would put Mario waaaaay higher. He made that 2014 year something special 2
BuffaloRush Posted July 20, 2018 Author Posted July 20, 2018 6 hours ago, BigDingus said: Williams deserves to be top 3. He was a HUGE signing at the time, and really came out of nowhere. He was one of the hottest free agents, and in his prime, and Ralph actually allowed the FO to spend big time money on getting him here. On top of it, he played very well, and helped anchor a defense that was leading the league in sacks for a couple of years. He was named among the top 100 NFL players in the league by his peers, AND embraced the city. Driving around on his snowplow, helping drive people around in blizzard conditions, the guy was really having fun in Buffalo. Also, he played through injuries, and only missed 1 game in 4 seasons with us. 2012 - 10.5 sacks 2013 - 13.0 sacks 2014 - 14.5 sacks 2015 - 5.0 sacks Seems to me like he was on a roll, all while being a definite focal point for opposing teams to plan against. Suddenly he, along with the rest of our defense, plummets in production when Rex the "defensive guru" rolls into town... Mario could've been like so many other big name FA signings that landed a record contract & fallen off the map, no longer hungry to produce. He didn't. For that I'll remember his time here fondly. Just remember, he didn't b*** or moan whatsoever until Rex completely ruined an otherwise fantastic defensive unit. I don't blame him at all. No doubt his numbers we good for the first three seasons (or at least two seasons), but I feel that these numbers are somewhat decieving. Keep in mind, they made him the highest paid defensive player in the NFL at the time. Many in the league and the media laughed at the Bills for overspending on the position and the player. You play those players to be game changers like a Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Khalil Mack or JJ Watt. Is Mario in that class? I can recall many times when the Bills defense was on their heels, and Mario was nowhere to be found. Blame Rex all you want, but by 2015 Mario was a shell of the player he used to be. This is evidence by the fact he was out of th league one year. Overall he had three years where he matched or exceeded his previous production. I feel he was less of an impact player as he had been with th Texans. I don’t feel that all of this warrants him a high place on the list.
Mark Vader Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 Owens should not be on the list. It was fun having him here, but no. Fletcher should be top 5. There are so many Bills fans, and those in the national media, who did not appreciate how good he was for us. I love Spikes, but I wouldn't have him at 2. Williams should be higher. He was a terror. Paup is where he should be. Washington is rightfully number 1. Thank you Wade Phillips for bringing him with you to Buffalo. 1
row_33 Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 6:02 AM, Coach55 said: Chris Spielman was another great FA signing. Flutie definitely deserves to be on this list, probably top 5 (I would put him ahead of Takeo Spikes and Steve Christie, but not ahead of Hull, Lofton or Washington). If you treated Tasker as a FA signing he would go top 3 as well. Flutie's in, we're going for the loss in the playoffs again.... yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...............
GunnerBill Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 7:27 AM, MJS said: I don't think Owens should be on this list. Mario Williams should be higher. He was really good for multiple years. People seem to only want to remember his final year. 100% agree on Mario. I'd have Mario higher than Spikes. He was the best player on this team for three straight years, had double digit sacks each of those years and in that 3 year period was only outperformed across the whole league by JJ Watt and Justin Houston. People who think he did not live up to that contact should see go see how many people have three year periods in their career as good as Mario's first three years here. Yes, the last year was awful. Yes, he quit on the team after the London game.... though I also think the evidence of what followed in Miami suggests his body had begun to break down and quit on him. Mario Williams was an excellent Buffalo Bill. I think a lot of fans never warmed to him because he was a bit of an introvert who didn't like talking. 3 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: No doubt his numbers we good for the first three seasons (or at least two seasons), but I feel that these numbers are somewhat decieving. Keep in mind, they made him the highest paid defensive player in the NFL at the time. Many in the league and the media laughed at the Bills for overspending on the position and the player. You play those players to be game changers like a Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Khalil Mack or JJ Watt. Is Mario in that class? I can recall many times when the Bills defense was on their heels, and Mario was nowhere to be found. Blame Rex all you want, but by 2015 Mario was a shell of the player he used to be. This is evidence by the fact he was out of th league one year. Overall he had three years where he matched or exceeded his previous production. I feel he was less of an impact player as he had been with th Texans. I don’t feel that all of this warrants him a high place on the list. Couldn't disagree more. Is he in Watt, Smith or White's class? No. They are all timers... slam dunk hall of famers. Khalil Mack? Yes I absolutely think Mario was in his class. Not a second of doubt in my mind. Mack is one of the top edge rushers in the league at the moment. No more, no less. That is what Mario was his first three years here. And by the way.... Mack has 40.5 sacks in 4 years in the NFL. Mario's 4 years in Buffalo he totalled 43 sacks. His run here was better than anything Mack has produced. I do agree that 2015 was partly on his body breaking down though and not just on Rex's crappy scheme. 3
BuffaloRush Posted July 21, 2018 Author Posted July 21, 2018 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: 100% agree on Mario. I'd have Mario higher than Spikes. He was the best player on this team for three straight years, had double digit sacks each of those years and in that 3 year period was only outperformed across the whole league by JJ Watt and Justin Houston. People who think he did not live up to that contact should see go see how many people have three year periods in their career as good as Mario's first three years here. Yes, the last year was awful. Yes, he quit on the team after the London game.... though I also think the evidence of what followed in Miami suggests his body had begun to break down and quit on him. Mario Williams was an excellent Buffalo Bill. I think a lot of fans never warmed to him because he was a bit of an introvert who didn't like talking. Couldn't disagree more. Is he in Watt, Smith or White's class? No. They are all timers... slam dunk hall of famers. Khalil Mack? Yes I absolutely think Mario was in his class. Not a second of doubt in my mind. Mack is one of the top edge rushers in the league at the moment. No more, no less. That is what Mario was his first three years here. And by the way.... Mack has 40.5 sacks in 4 years in the NFL. Mario's 4 years in Buffalo he totalled 43 sacks. His run here was better than anything Mack has produced. I do agree that 2015 was partly on his body breaking down though and not just on Rex's crappy scheme. Classic example of Bills fans overrating a player like Mario. As I said, statistically his stats were very good but then again stats can be misleading. I'm on the bandwagon that doesn't believe he lived up to his contract. You pay that kind of money for a play that makes a huge impact on the defense. Mario was notably silent in many big games. His biggest game was probably in 2014 when his strip sack sealed a win for the Bills. Outside of that, I can't remember a big-time game against a good opponent where Mario stood out. I remember going on ProFootballTalk right after Mario signed with Buffalo. A number of Texans fans something along the lines of "you just grossly overpaid for a good.....not great player.:" Good...not great is the perfect description for Mario IMO Again, I'll say this Mario played three good seasons in Buffalo and one horrible season. Overall, I don't feel that justifies the monster deal he was given and thus, putting him at the bottom of the Top 10 is 100% justified. Kudos Bills
GunnerBill Posted July 21, 2018 Posted July 21, 2018 4 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: Classic example of Bills fans overrating a player like Mario. As I said, statistically his stats were very good but then again stats can be misleading. I'm on the bandwagon that doesn't believe he lived up to his contract. You pay that kind of money for a play that makes a huge impact on the defense. Mario was notably silent in many big games. His biggest game was probably in 2014 when his strip sack sealed a win for the Bills. Outside of that, I can't remember a big-time game against a good opponent where Mario stood out. I remember going on ProFootballTalk right after Mario signed with Buffalo. A number of Texans fans something along the lines of "you just grossly overpaid for a good.....not great player.:" Good...not great is the perfect description for Mario IMO Again, I'll say this Mario played three good seasons in Buffalo and one horrible season. Overall, I don't feel that justifies the monster deal he was given and thus, putting him at the bottom of the Top 10 is 100% justified. Kudos Bills We have done this before and I have listed countless other big plays in big games. You are flat out wrong. He played 3 dominant years here. 1
Doc Brown Posted July 21, 2018 Posted July 21, 2018 The list isn't terrible though I would dispute the order and TO should not be on the list. I would put Sam Adams and Sam Gash in there way before TO. It's like the writer got lazy and just threw him in their at #10 because he was a big name. This would be my order. 1.) Ted Washington - the ultimate space eater and a great NT that gave us six great years. I believe he was more important to our defense than Hull was to our offense. 2.) Kent Hull - a fixture in the K-Gun. Played 11 great years here and only free agent on this list on Wall of Fame. 3.) Bryce Paup - season of 17.5 sacks elevates him on the list. Had another two solid years with us. 4.) James Lofton - still a solid WR late in his career that helped get us to three Superbowls. 5.) London Fletcher - five seasons of at least 90 tackles. Consistent as they come. 6.) Mario Williams - three straight double sack seasons is hard to argue despite the size of his contract. Would have produced more if Rex didn't bring system with him. 7.) Takeo Spikes - similar to Mario Williams. Two pro bowl seasons and then injuries slowed him down and kept him out of games. 8.) Doug Flutie - benefited from a great defense, but was fun to watch. Operated offense efficiently. 9.) Sam Gash - two years. Two pro bowls. Opened up running lanes like nobody else. 10.) Steve Christie - it pains me to include a kicker, but he was consistent for us during the 90's. Always seemed to make the clutch kick including MSM. 1
BuffaloRush Posted July 21, 2018 Author Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: We have done this before and I have listed countless other big plays in big games. You are flat out wrong. He played 3 dominant years here. Right you mean like when the Bills played Denver or the Raiders late in the 2024 season and he did nothing? Good...not great Edited July 21, 2018 by BuffaloRush
GunnerBill Posted July 21, 2018 Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said: Right you mean like when the Bills played Denver or the Raiders late in the 2024 season and he did nothing? Good...not great Neither if those games were lost by the defense. Not a lot you can do when your offense is incapable of moving the ball. You are blaming Mario for things that are simply not on him. Mario's job was make the Bills' pass rush one of the most feared in the National Football League. And he did it. If your expectations were "single handidly deliver the playoffs" then of course you will be disappointed. But those were ridiculous expectations in the first place. Mario Williams performed. Unfortunately the Quarterbacks in those three years were Ryan Fitzpatrick, the three headed monster of Manuel / Thad / Tuel and then the corpse of Kyle Orton's career. But Tyrod (who I am no lover of) on the 2013 team they make the playoffs. Put him on the 2014 team and that team makes a run. 2
billspro Posted July 21, 2018 Posted July 21, 2018 Clay, Zo, Hyde, and Poyer all have a chance to be on that list
billsfan89 Posted July 21, 2018 Posted July 21, 2018 On 7/20/2018 at 3:20 AM, BigDingus said: Williams deserves to be top 3. He was a HUGE signing at the time, and really came out of nowhere. He was one of the hottest free agents, and in his prime, and Ralph actually allowed the FO to spend big time money on getting him here. On top of it, he played very well, and helped anchor a defense that was leading the league in sacks for a couple of years. He was named among the top 100 NFL players in the league by his peers, AND embraced the city. Driving around on his snowplow, helping drive people around in blizzard conditions, the guy was really having fun in Buffalo. Also, he played through injuries, and only missed 1 game in 4 seasons with us. 2012 - 10.5 sacks 2013 - 13.0 sacks 2014 - 14.5 sacks 2015 - 5.0 sacks Seems to me like he was on a roll, all while being a definite focal point for opposing teams to plan against. Suddenly he, along with the rest of our defense, plummets in production when Rex the "defensive guru" rolls into town... Mario could've been like so many other big name FA signings that landed a record contract & fallen off the map, no longer hungry to produce. He didn't. For that I'll remember his time here fondly. Just remember, he didn't b*** or moan whatsoever until Rex completely ruined an otherwise fantastic defensive unit. I don't blame him at all. Mario's 2012 season wasn't that good, he got hot for a few games inflating his sack total but his impact on the defense was limited that season. That being said Mario's 2013 and 2014 seasons were legit great.
BuffaloRush Posted July 22, 2018 Author Posted July 22, 2018 13 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Neither if those games were lost by the defense. Not a lot you can do when your offense is incapable of moving the ball. You are blaming Mario for things that are simply not on him. Mario's job was make the Bills' pass rush one of the most feared in the National Football League. And he did it. If your expectations were "single handidly deliver the playoffs" then of course you will be disappointed. But those were ridiculous expectations in the first place. Mario Williams performed. Unfortunately the Quarterbacks in those three years were Ryan Fitzpatrick, the three headed monster of Manuel / Thad / Tuel and then the corpse of Kyle Orton's career. But Tyrod (who I am no lover of) on the 2013 team they make the playoffs. Put him on the 2014 team and that team makes a run. Big players, make big plays, in big football games. Outside of a win in Green Bay, Mario was not a difference maker when it mattered. Hence, he was good....not great
GunnerBill Posted July 22, 2018 Posted July 22, 2018 5 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: Big players, make big plays, in big football games. Outside of a win in Green Bay, Mario was not a difference maker when it mattered. Hence, he was good....not great Except you are wrong on that. The wins in Chicago and Miami that same 2014 season jump immediately to mind without even trying to think. 1
Recommended Posts