Justice Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 QB RJ over Flutie, then Drew and now JP and Holcomb. Grade D-. At least for now. JP can change all of that. RB TH and WM Grade B+ and rising! WR Reed, Aiken, Smith, Shaw, Jett, Wright, Smith and Evans. Grade D+ Evans stops this from being a F, but a otherwise weak group of receivers. OL MW, CV, TT, JJ, Ross Tucker, Lawrence Smith, Mike Pucillo, M. Price, Ben Sobieski and Dylan McFarland. Grade C- and falling. JJ is gone and uncertainty at the LG and LT positions TE Mark Campbell, Euhus, Moore, Nuefeld Grade D+ DL Aaron Schobel, Sam Adams, Ryan Denney, Chris Kelsay, Justin Bannon Ron Edwards & Tim Anderson Grade B- LB Spikes, Fletcher, Posey, Stamer, Crowell & Haggan Grade A- Arguably one of TD's strongest positions. DB Milloy, Clements, Vincent, McGee, Thomas, Baker, Greer, Wire, PP, Raion Hill Grade B- K Lindell & Hollis Grade D+ D+ thanks to Hollis P Moorman A+ Overall Grade C+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Aw man, that was great AND pretty accurate. I especially like the Hollis comment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball'n Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 It would be a overall of C. I added them and divided... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltrane34 Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Those grades are absolutely wrong. Many of those players are young and beginning to perform. Recievers especially need three years out of college to be serously graded. Jonathan Smith in the sixth round and Lee evens the best rookie reciever in the draft are steals. Plus the LB corps is possibly the best in the league. You also have to consider the huge amout of dead cap space TD got rid of and the limited free agents that want to come to a city like Buffalo. There is a whole business side of this that you overlook. All I have to say is that he must be a genius for taking Willis when everyone else passed him by. Give the guy some more credit he has done tremendous work for the team and the city of Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 17, 2005 Author Share Posted March 17, 2005 Those grades are absolutely wrong. Many of those players are young and beginning to perform. Recievers especially need three years out of college to be serously graded. Jonathan Smith in the sixth round and Lee evens the best rookie reciever in the draft are steals. Plus the LB corps is possibly the best in the league. You also have to consider the huge amout of dead cap space TD got rid of and the limited free agents that want to come to a city like Buffalo. There is a whole business side of this that you overlook. All I have to say is that he must be a genius for taking Willis when everyone else passed him by. Give the guy some more credit he has done tremendous work for the team and the city of Buffalo. 277246[/snapback] As you can see I gave the LB's a A-. What more can I give them? The WR position is what it is, for now. Let me stress for now. I can't give em a grade for the future, can I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 All that matters is the state of the team as of March 16th. TD has provided us a very talented roster, and he's seemingly got the coaching mistakes fixed and on the right track. Taking into account players from TDs first and second year of rebuilding the team is pointless, IMHO. Our cap situation when he arrived dictated that we had to take a step backward in order to take two forward. We are now in the 'forward' phase, and that's all that matters. You guys who continue to hack on Moulds kill me. He was still in the top ten in the NFL in receptions, and Evans has given us more than enough reason to believe he's going to be a friggin stud. Those two are very solid as our wideouts. As for our secondary, all four of them are or have been pro bowlers. What more do you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 What more do you want? 277377[/snapback] Playoff appearances in 2003 and in 2004 would have been nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Playoff appearances in 2003 and in 2004 would have been nice. 277395[/snapback] Yep, would have been.....didn't happen. Would have been nice if Norwood would have made the kick. Would have been nice if we'd had a REAL free safety during the Super Bowl years, too. None of these things happened. We can either piss and moan about all this stuff, or we can see that TD has got us in a very exciting place with an emerging stud RB, stud WR, some fresh air at the QB spot, a top notch defense, and some trade bait to do business with. There are not a lot of teams in the NFL who have as much to be excited about with regard to the 2005 season as we Bills fans do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Yep, would have been.....didn't happen. Would have been nice if Norwood would have made the kick. Would have been nice if we'd had a REAL free safety during the Super Bowl years, too. None of these things happened. We can either piss and moan about all this stuff, or we can see that TD has got us in a very exciting place with an emerging stud RB, stud WR, some fresh air at the QB spot, a top notch defense, and some trade bait to do business with. There are not a lot of teams in the NFL who have as much to be excited about with regard to the 2005 season as we Bills fans do. 277404[/snapback] If we start out 0-4 again in 2005, will the hue of your glasses remain this rosy? Or will you begin to see TD - like I do - as a master marketer, a salary cap wizard, but nevertheless a mediocre talent evaluator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 If we start out 0-4 again in 2005, will the hue of your glasses remain this rosy? Or will you begin to see TD - like I do - as a master marketer, a salary cap wizard, but nevertheless a mediocre talent evaluator? 277452[/snapback] See, to me that's the piece of the mental puzzle that some of you are missing. This team needed time to gel last year. I think a lot of you actually forget that our 9 wins came after the first quarter of the season. Obviously when you take that into account it's clear that our team is 'on the verge'. So, to answer your question, I absolutely will reevaluate my viewpoint if we go 0-4. Even with a second year starter at QB, I expect that we'll go at least 2-2, no matter who our opponents are. Our team has a lot of chemistry to it, and I suspect that is at least part of the reason why we aren't out signing any 'big name' free agents. We are better than a lot of you give us credit for, IMHO. We won't know that for certain until September, but that's my opinion and I'm stickin to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Yeah, but Coltrane makes a good point. You tended to give low grades to positions such as receiver and O-line where most of the players were drafted, so will take longer to develop. Linebacker, you gave high marks too, but those guys came in as established players, so was easy for them to quickly get high grades. I don't think you should downgrade a score cause a guy such as JJ and/or PW leaves as a free agent. The fact that they got a huge contract shows it was a really great pick up cause their value sky-rocketed. Not that I agree they were worth that much, but that is the reality of what happened. And I agree with TD in not overpaying to keep them. What you did was gave TD a hit on his score cause he drafted a guy who went on to better things, and then TD doesn't overpay to keep him. You als odidn't give him grades fpr players that did leave and went on to bigger or worse things. Thats the other part of the equation. For instance, Sam Cowlet. TD wouldn't meet his demands. He leaves, goers to the Jets and hasn't done much of anything. Good move by TD. The P Price was another good move that you're over looking. How many players have left the Bills and gone elsewhere and become a star? As you can see I gave the LB's a A-. What more can I give them?The WR position is what it is, for now. Let me stress for now. I can't give em a grade for the future, can I? 277307[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 QB RJ over Flutie, then Drew and now JP and Holcomb. Grade D-. At least for now. JP can change all of that. RB TH and WM Grade B+ and rising! WR Reed, Aiken, Smith, Shaw, Jett, Wright, Smith and Evans. Grade D+ Evans stops this from being a F, but a otherwise weak group of receivers. OL MW, CV, TT, JJ, Ross Tucker, Lawrence Smith, Mike Pucillo, M. Price, Ben Sobieski and Dylan McFarland. Grade C- and falling. JJ is gone and uncertainty at the LG and LT positions TE Mark Campbell, Euhus, Moore, Nuefeld Grade D+ DL Aaron Schobel, Sam Adams, Ryan Denney, Chris Kelsay, Justin Bannon Ron Edwards & Tim Anderson Grade B- LB Spikes, Fletcher, Posey, Stamer, Crowell & Haggan Grade A- Arguably one of TD's strongest positions. DB Milloy, Clements, Vincent, McGee, Thomas, Baker, Greer, Wire, PP, Raion Hill Grade B- K Lindell & Hollis Grade D+ D+ thanks to Hollis P Moorman A+ Overall Grade C+ 277221[/snapback] That is a below average grade and obviously a valid opinion as you have considered it and made your views public. This is not obviously the Bills starting roster in 2005 and things could change, and will, until then. I have asked this question before, but please give me the names of 20 rosters in their entirety that you would swap straight up for the Bills roster, counting everything. Name 20 teams, that you honestly say, i would rather have all these guys and their history and their contracts and their ages and their talent, instead of the Bills. Very few, dave mcbride being the only one that actually was willing to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 the limited free agents that want to come to a city like Buffalo. There is a whole business side of this that you overlook. . 277246[/snapback] I can never understand this quote. The bottom line is if you win in the parity driven NFL (even in the business part of it), players will come to any team that pays them the most... Look at Pittsburgh...It is as small or a bad town as Buffalo...but they are always in contention and that allows FA to come there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 17, 2005 Author Share Posted March 17, 2005 I appreciate and respect all your opinions. The grades I gave didn't include potential and it didn't include moves he didn't make either. I'm purely judging him by free agents signed and players drafted. I agree with Ed Roch when he said I gave low grades to the O-line only because, that position, after 4 years, is still in disarray. The O-line never played above average in the first place. How can I give them a higher grade when they never dominated? As far as the D line is concerned, I would say a B- is a very fair grade. I didn't take anything away because of PW's departure. I didn't even give credit to TD for PW, as a matter of fact. He didn't draft or sign PW. PW was already here when TD got here. Sam Cowart and PP was here already, too. Letting those guys go was a great move by TD, but like I stated before, the grade is for drafted and free agent signees only. The grade I gave to the WR position also is under high scrutiny. Moulds isn't in the equation here. Evans is the only guy that proved he can play. Those other guys are garbage. I'm stickin' with the D+ on that position until a strong #3 receiver emerges. I feel a overall grade of C is a very fair assessment of TD's drafts and free agent signings. As evidenced by zero playoff appearances. If the Bills are gonna make a move they need another draft like TD's first and some more street free agents like last year. Then and only then, will the Bills finally make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Nice job overall. I would probably raise the grade of the dbs since Clements and Milloy played at a very high level and McGee seemed to improve and make plays towards the end of last season. It would be interesting to further break down your anlaysis and separately grade the positions based on free agents acquired versus draft picks. I think where we have been hurt has been the lack of development of our late round picks, particularly since these players are relatively cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 As you can see I gave the LB's a A-. What more can I give them?The WR position is what it is, for now. Let me stress for now. I can't give em a grade for the future, can I? 277307[/snapback] Why did you leave out Moulds in that assessment? He chose to resign him instead of Wiley, effectively keeping him from becoming a FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 17, 2005 Author Share Posted March 17, 2005 Why did you leave out Moulds in that assessment? He chose to resign him instead of Wiley, effectively keeping him from becoming a FA. 277975[/snapback] True. I still feel TD inherited Moulds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 That is a below average grade and obviously a valid opinion as you have considered it and made your views public. This is not obviously the Bills starting roster in 2005 and things could change, and will, until then. I have asked this question before, but please give me the names of 20 rosters in their entirety that you would swap straight up for the Bills roster, counting everything. Name 20 teams, that you honestly say, i would rather have all these guys and their history and their contracts and their ages and their talent, instead of the Bills. Very few, dave mcbride being the only one that actually was willing to do it. 277589[/snapback] Well, you'll find that most of the "haters" really don't care to attempt that because it would prove them wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 True. I still feel TD inherited Moulds. 277981[/snapback] Then he inhereted Flutie & Johnson as well. Remove them from your grades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 17, 2005 Author Share Posted March 17, 2005 Nice job overall. I would probably raise the grade of the dbs since Clements and Milloy played at a very high level and McGee seemed to improve and make plays towards the end of last season. 277965[/snapback] The B- for the DB was mainly because, up until last season, Izell Reese, Coy Wire, PP and Raion Hill all started in the secondary at one point or another and almost all of them are no longer Bills. They aren't very talented either. Based on last year alone, I would easily give the secondary a A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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