EJ Manuel says benching with Bills sent him into depression

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

And, they actually traded down 8 spots in that draft. Nix was perfectly willing to risk losing him. As I recall, Geno Smith probably would have been the pick if we lost EJ.

 

Obviously, the Bills never should have been in the position to have to chose between 2 rather lousy qbs. I understand that some don't like the Allen pick but I support that selection 100%. We moved up and did what we had to do instead of passing on Joe Flacco for Leotis McKelvin.

Bill, The Bills shouldn't have drafted a qb in any of the first three rounds in that EJ draft year. It was that bad a class. Nix had an opportunity to select either Russell Wilson or Cousins with either a third or fourth round pick in a prior draft but didn't take the opportunity. Rumor had it that Buddy was eyeing one of them (I believe Cousins) but was late in pulling the trigger.

 

In my view, too much attention was placed on how this bedraggled franchise didn't get the qb issue right. The failure on addressing that issue was a reflection/representation of a bigger problem: that mediocre people were running this nondescript franchise. When your front office is less than average and you are competing against a number of well run organizations the outcome is going to be predictable. 

 

I, like you, endorse the Allen selection. But what was even more impressive is how this new brain trust put itself in position to draft a high end qb prospect. Getting to that point was not easy. There were multiple steps that had to be made in sequence before that qb acquisition could be made. The strategy and execution to get Allen was quite impressive . 

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

EJ was going in the 2nd at the latest (Chip Kelly was a big fan).  

 

Its ironic you bash Nix/ Whaley for EJ when they traded down, picked up a 2nd that turned into Kiko (runner up DROY and then traded for the very Shady McCoy).  But clearly, the guy who threw for under 2,000 and 58% in the MWC is clearly superior to the 70% passer in the ACC.

 

i think with guys like EJ and Allen (who is a mid round project who got bumped up as well) their development is going to make or break them.  

Big deal if we passed on EJ and he was selected by Kelly from the Eagles. He would then have been their bad pick instead of ours. Whether the Bills moved up or down to select him it is still a bad pick! The notion that EJ was top shelf prospect is belied by the fact that while he has been in the league for half a decade he is still floundering as a backup player with little chance to be a starter in this league. 

 

I don't know for sure if Josh Allen is going to be a franchise qb in this league. But what I do know for sure is that a number of teams had him highly rated in this draft. Taking a chance on a talent such as Allen is worth the risk; drafting EJ in the first round was a laughable absurdity,

[Soda Popinski]

This is a tough game for tough people.  I wish Nix/Whaley had done a little more evaluation on EJ before picking him.   He didn't have the mental toughness to play QB in the NFL.  said/did all the right things.  Just couldn't process quickly enough to get the ball accurately where it needed to be. 

[Royale with Cheese]

13 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Ej is a nice man.  I like him.  But -

 

being a QB in the NFL requires some true mental toughness.   Mental acuity and mental toughness.   You've got to have the heart and the guts to make tough decisions in virtually no time and then to execute.   Very few guys have it, and there's no shame if you don't.  

 

So I'm sorry to say, but I think it's true, that admitting he became depressed when he got benched is just his admission that he didn't have the heart and the toughness it takes to play the position.   Tyrod Taylor could have gotten depressed when he got benched.   He reacted differently.   He said all the right things (which EJ did, too) and then we went back to work.   He didn't let the benching change his attitude.  

 

As each year goes by, I'm more and more impressed at how tough players are in the NFL.   They take incredible physical and emotional beatings and come back for more as if nothing happened.   Taylor has that.  Manuel doesn't.  Edwards didn't.   Fitz does.   Being tough isn't all it takes, but if you aren't incredibly tough, you aren't surviving in the NFL.  

 

It's why it's such a brotherhood.   Those are all real mean in the locker room.  

 

I agree with this, especially in Manuel's case.

I felt this way when he was playing with us.  You very rarely saw Manuel just sit back and rip it.  He said he was going to do that but he didn't.  

 

He tried to guide the ball rather than just letting lose.  It's similar to a baseball player in a slump....instead of taking a hard, full swing, he's trying to guide the bat to the ball just so he can make contact.  

 

 

 

Sal C used to say this all the time on WGR and it was spot on.  He would say "EJ, you're 6'4 and 240 lbs...throw the ball like you're 6'4 and 240 lbs".

2 hours ago, The Jerk said:

The one throw that I'll always remember:

 

 

 

 

 

On the All 22, they should a defensive back coming right after Fred that you can't see if the GIF you provided.

Even if it gets by Watt and in the hands of Fred Jackson, he's going to get crushed.  Either he's going to catch it and get dropped for a no gain or the ball is going to be knocked out by contact.  In the slot, Sammy Watkins has a safety lined up against him, 7 yards off and doesn't even consider that throw.  It was 3rd and 2......

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Another Fan said:

Yeah it’s the sort of mental toughness aspect of the game you can’t tell at the Combines who has and who won’t in their careers.

 

Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith of the Jets per say didn’t have it as well.  As much as I may not want to admit it this is an area Tom Brady excells exponentially at.  5th or 6th round pick but undeniable work ethic/mental toughness 

Don't tell McBeane you can't tell who has it and who doesn't.   A major part of their draft evaluation process is what we generally lump together as "character" or "intangibles."   They put a lot of effort looking into the mental makeup of players:  are they fierce competitors, do they hate losing, how do they react to failure, do they stick to their craft or take time off, are they committed to the right things.   I think Beane said that those issues are among their first screens - if you don't have the kind of mental makeup they're looking for, you drop on their board or fall off completely.   

[FearLess Price]

12 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Weren’t both Allen and EJ MVPs Of the Senior Bowl?

 

Daboll’s OC resume is less than impressive but it’s at least better than Hackett’s when EJ was drafted.  It’s why I wanted Rosen because I don’t trust the Bills to develop a rawer q.b. We will see.

 

Agree. The similarities are kind of scary.

 

 

12 hours ago, uticaclub said:

I think at the end of the day EJ will have a longer career then Tyrod

 

you cant be serious? Dude pass the doobie that sht must be good.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

13 hours ago, MURPHD6 said:

I think your hindsight is 20/20, and that your ignoring alot of the conversation surrounding him in 2013. He was projected as having all the tools, and there were concerns over whether he had recieved proper coaching. There were some pretty good breakdowns of his strengths and weaknesses posted on this board and how they didn't gel with the play calling. Footwork was an issue at times, and it might still be, but I don't recall any major mechanic issues. The issue seems to be anticipation and touch, especially on short throws. He was better at longer, intermediate throws (especially on 1st down), weaker on short throws on third down, and all Hackett called was run, run, pass, having him repeatedly attempt short tight window throws on third down that he sucked at.

You got to be able to make those throws when your a starter, no doubt about that, but its not like he had excellent coaching either.

 

I somewhat agree with this. Having the tools is arguable. He had a lot of work to do on his mechanics IMO, especially with those short throws as you mentioned. Too often he would throw bullets on 5 yard passes. But his throwing motion in general was odd. He seemed to "shoot" his passes, almost like when playing darts.

 

His success as a passer on first downs often came out of play-action, an area where he was pretty good IMO, so long as the play design and execution were a match to what the defense did, and typically on passes that were deeper over the middle of the field. Sideline passes were dreadful more often than not. 

 

One thing that is for sure is that his coaching was not very good, not just from a play calling POV, but also in the form of a staff that can properly develop a QB. He really wasn't put into a good position for success in several ways, even if he wasn't destined to become a good NFL QB anyways. The staff didn't do a good job of masking deficiencies at all really. He was considered very raw coming out, but with his measurables could be molded. Sitting and learning, and working on mechanics should have been the approach, but unfortunately a rubber mat thwarted that. But even still, he wasn't going to be very good, so it's kind of moot. His depression from being benched just goes to show that he didn't have what it takes at the position, as others have mentioned. It should have fueled him. 

[BillsMafia13]

5 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Felt bad for EJ then, still do.  He was winning that Browns game until the knee injury, and he was never quite the same after that.  You could see that Maroon told him to stop running, and he got skittish in the pocket.  He brought the team back against Chicago, then Fred puts Conte into next week.  Winning against the Texans until the JJ Watt play, and Maroon pulled the plug in favor of 3rd and kitty.  Then came the infamous Jax game in London.  Would the EJ story have ended differently if the refs don't call the phantom PI against Nuke?  Completing the monster comeback after the worst 1st half in Bills history?  Jim Kelly-esque, we would have said.  His final game here, looked JP Losman-like, and he was clearly done and needed to go.  I wish EJ well, he deserved better when he was here.

Can you remind the other fans with a diminished memory what happened in that Jax game that was so terrible?  All the London/Toronto games kind of blur together for  these "other fans"

[uticaclub]

1 hour ago, FearLess Price said:

 

Agree. The similarities are kind of scary.

 

 

 

you cant be serious? Dude pass the doobie that sht must be good.

Once Tyrod's legs go, he's worthless.

 

Both are backup caliber QB, i still think EJ has potential

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

15 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....LOL...reminisce to the day of "Jake the Snake", right??............

Nice one. 

 

I was never sold on Jake the Snake while others were very "high" on him.   

 

Well, I can say I was right, he was a failure.   Maybe in another 2 or 3 years I can say it again about "He who must not be named" 

12 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

Do you remember his last game as a Bill (at Jets)? That display was much more than not good enough.At least he never stole food from a Winn Dixie like that other FSU QB did.It's a wash..I think?

Rex's final FU to Buffalo.  Yeah I saw it.  

 

All the BS talk about an audition.   lol     

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

Big deal if we passed on EJ and he was selected by Kelly from the Eagles. He would then have been their bad pick instead of ours. Whether the Bills moved up or down to select him it is still a bad pick! The notion that EJ was top shelf prospect is belied by the fact that while he has been in the league for half a decade he is still floundering as a backup player with little chance to be a starter in this league. 

 

I don't know for sure if Josh Allen is going to be a franchise qb in this league. But what I do know for sure is that a number of teams had him highly rated in this draft. Taking a chance on a talent such as Allen is worth the risk; drafting EJ in the first round was a laughable absurdity,

EJ was a  raw "project" even when drafted where he was.   

You like the kid and wished he did better.

He won some good games and lost some bad games.  Just like every QB in the league.  

 

 

 

I forget.... I think with that draft class,  EJ may be one a few of the QB's still in the league "on a roster" 

 

[Maybe Someday]

The only part about this that surprises me is that EJ actually admitted it.  Oh how the league has changed...anyone think any player would admit that 20 years ago???

 

He better man up if he wants to play for Chuckie.

[HT02]

23 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....can't fault the kid's worth ethic and dedication to fulfilling his lifelong QB dream...no harm no foul there IMO.....but he suffered as many do, the inability to process the entire field in a scant 5 seconds or less.....I can't open a damn beer in 5 seconds or less......add in that he had ZERO confidence as well as being thrown to the wolves after "The Mat That Ate Brian Kolb"......maybe he sticks as a backup with Chuckie.....

Well said, he seems like a good guy and I wish him well but it was clear then as it is now he isn't an NFL starting QB..  

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Don't tell McBeane you can't tell who has it and who doesn't.   A major part of their draft evaluation process is what we generally lump together as "character" or "intangibles."   They put a lot of effort looking into the mental makeup of players:  are they fierce competitors, do they hate losing, how do they react to failure, do they stick to their craft or take time off, are they committed to the right things.   I think Beane said that those issues are among their first screens - if you don't have the kind of mental makeup they're looking for, you drop on their board or fall off completely.   

 

 

then they would have drafted  also.......

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Nice one. 

 

I was never sold on Jake the Snake while others were very "high" on him.   

 

Well, I can say I was right, he was a failure.   Maybe in another 2 or 3 years I can say it again about "He who must not be named" 

Rex's final FU to Buffalo.  Yeah I saw it.  

 

 

 

 

...LMAO bud.....I "affectionately" remember him better as "Jake The Fake"......and certainly wasn't shy about "rollin' me another one".....

[C.Biscuit97]

9 hours ago, JohnC said:

Big deal if we passed on EJ and he was selected by Kelly from the Eagles. He would then have been their bad pick instead of ours. Whether the Bills moved up or down to select him it is still a bad pick! The notion that EJ was top shelf prospect is belied by the fact that while he has been in the league for half a decade he is still floundering as a backup player with little chance to be a starter in this league. 

 

I don't know for sure if Josh Allen is going to be a franchise qb in this league. But what I do know for sure is that a number of teams had him highly rated in this draft. Taking a chance on a talent such as Allen is worth the risk; drafting EJ in the first round was a laughable absurdity,

I mean that’s like your opinion dude.  Teams also had Blaine Gabbert rated higher the Cam Newton.  Nfl teams/ draft experts do stupid things all the time.

 

i have zero doubt EJ is a better player under Chip Kelly than Nate Hackett.  

10 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I have a feeling that you are going to like Daboll more that you might think. He didn't have full control at Alabama and there is much speculation that he wanted Tua in there for a long time.

 

I was quite fond of his work with the Tide. He wasn't as pass crazy as Kiffen but he sure did develop the young receivers.

 

My worry is the Bills OL, not Coach Daboll but we shall see.

Harsh but I gotta take your back on those comments.

I hope you’re right but I was completely underwhelmed watching Bama’s offense.  Hurts has his issues but he regressed under Daboll.  Nothing in Daboll’s past shows an innovative offensive mind.

 

I will be very happy to be wrong on this.  But rushing out to hire Brian Daboll and targeting Allen, literally the only qb I didn’t want in the first round, seem like The type of moves bad teams make.  Hopefully this is the new K Gun and not the next Losman/ Mularkey.

[SouthNYfan]

Drafting EJ sent me into depression.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean that’s like your opinion dude.  Teams also had Blaine Gabbert rated higher the Cam Newton.  Nfl teams/ draft experts do stupid things all the time.

 

i have zero doubt EJ is a better player under Chip Kelly than Nate Hackett.  

 

I have no doubt that EJ would have been a better qb coached by Kelly. Even with an upgrade in coaching he still would not have developed into  a starting qb in this league. EJ has been in the league for half a decade. At best he is an adequate backup. He is what he is. 

 

Cam Newton was the first pick in his draft year. I don't know of an organization that would have had Gabbert rated higher than Newton. If there were a team that had Gabbert rated higher than Newton would have been a bigger evaluation mistake than the drafting of EJ in the first round. 

 

 

[xxxxxxxx]

8 hours ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

I somewhat agree with this. Having the tools is arguable. He had a lot of work to do on his mechanics IMO, especially with those short throws as you mentioned. Too often he would throw bullets on 5 yard passes. But his throwing motion in general was odd. He seemed to "shoot" his passes, almost like when playing darts.

 

His success as a passer on first downs often came out of play-action, an area where he was pretty good IMO, so long as the play design and execution were a match to what the defense did, and typically on passes that were deeper over the middle of the field. Sideline passes were dreadful more often than not. 

 

One thing that is for sure is that his coaching was not very good, not just from a play calling POV, but also in the form of a staff that can properly develop a QB. He really wasn't put into a good position for success in several ways, even if he wasn't destined to become a good NFL QB anyways. The staff didn't do a good job of masking deficiencies at all really. He was considered very raw coming out, but with his measurables could be molded. Sitting and learning, and working on mechanics should have been the approach, but unfortunately a rubber mat thwarted that. But even still, he wasn't going to be very good, so it's kind of moot. His depression from being benched just goes to show that he didn't have what it takes at the position, as others have mentioned. It should have fueled him. 

Yes, he was good on play action. That was true. I think the problem with some of these young guys is that they are too used to being the best athlete on their teams, and can't handle it when they suddenly are not.

E.J would have been the best athlete in any given sport that he played growing up, so he wouldn't really have to work too hard to succeed. The NFL is very different. Guys are playing for their livelihood not for fun.

Edited July 18, 2018 by MURPHD6

[Fan in Chicago]

Credit EJ with not going off the deep end, indulging in self destructive behavior or doing anything illegal. Unlike the Ryan Leaf and Manziels of the NFL world, at least he kept his head down and carried out his role. reduced though it may have been. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by Fan in Chicago

[stuvian]

He will have to dedicate himself to his craft like Brees and Brady in order to get another chance to start