Alexandria, The New Direction Of The Democrats

[3rdnlng]

6 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

And Darin.

That would make a hell of a panel.

[Nanker]

3 hours ago, /dev/null said:

I propose a three person panel that includes myself and Tom

 

 

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

And Darin.

I’ll be the stand in if one of you can’t make it. 

[Azalin]

18 minutes ago, Nanker said:

 

I’ll be the stand in if one of you can’t make it. 

 

[/dev/null]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

And Darin.

 

If we add Darin the panel should be five otherwise there won't be any comedic suspense before the diagnosis of !@#$ off, you're an idiot, and where's my gun?0

[Nanker]

4 minutes ago, Azalin said:

 

 

[/dev/null]

6 minutes ago, Azalin said:

 

 

This should be the official emblem of the office of Vice President of the United States

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Reminds me ove rhe book A Brave New World, where everyone are like robots and there's no motivation to achieve or excel....just live.

It reminds me of Wall-E where the people live their lives in a virtual reality space ship that's basically a lifelong cruise.

[billsfan89]

23 hours ago, GG said:

She grew up in a working class town.  Not all Westchester is uber-rich.  But why would you spend a second doing your own research, moron?

 

 

So in the same breath that you admit that it's ok for people earning 52% of income to bear 87% of the income tax burden (and growing) you talk about tax fairness?  The whole point of bringing up Scandinavians is that the tax base is more ratable, and nearly everyone has skin in the game.  When you have an increasing share of population that doesn't pay an income tax, and whose payroll tax is largely invisible to them, it makes it a lot easier to push through populist/socialist policies that will collapse in the end.

 

The fiscal model of relying on a smaller and smaller percentage of population paying taxes to support increasing social programs is reckless and unsustainable.

 

First of all if you factor in payroll taxes the tax burden is much more evenly distributed considering that income above a certain income level (I believe 125k) isn't subjected to the tax. But if you just want to talk about income tax I think that evening out the burden can't come from the bottom 45% as if you tax them at 100% it wouldn't make much of a dent in the overall burden. You have to even out that distribution through taxing the middle class more.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

You have to even out that distribution through taxing the middle class more.

 

Because that's exactly what I need to do. Support more poor people with MY hard-earned money.

 

No amount of guilt will make me feel good about that.

 

Edited July 21, 2018 by joesixpack

[boyst]

13 hours ago, /dev/null said:

 

If we add Darin the panel should be five otherwise there won't be any comedic suspense before the diagnosis of !@#$ off, you're an idiot, and where's my gun?0

I got this.  I'll be the Sotomayor of the panel.

[3rdnlng]

16 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

I got this.  I'll be the Sotomayor of the panel.

You always want to play the female.

[keepthefaith]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

First of all if you factor in payroll taxes the tax burden is much more evenly distributed considering that income above a certain income level (I believe 125k) isn't subjected to the tax. But if you just want to talk about income tax I think that evening out the burden can't come from the bottom 45% as if you tax them at 100% it wouldn't make much of a dent in the overall burden. You have to even out that distribution through taxing the middle class more.

 

Above $128K is not subject to FICA (social security) tax yes correct, but that is a program for all with capped benefits and capped contributions.  Seems like one of the only fair payroll taxes we have.  It's a separate program or is supposed to be.  We need a flatter fed tax rate system and a law that only allows taxation to rise or fall at the same rate regardless of income. That way we get politicians out of the business of picking which group of earners should pay a greater or lesser percentage and we get all Americans more on the same page scrutinizing federal spending since all are paying a similar rate.  Deductions for family necessities or encouraged behavior (health care insurance, health care costs, education, retirement savings, home ownership, charitable contributions and maybe a couple of others should be the only deductions. 

 

There have been some good arguments made for not taxing labor or earnings at all and only taxing consumption, but seems too radical to get any political traction. 

[B-Man]

‘Really?’ Sen. Kamala Harris wants federal government to ‘ease the burden’ of rent, reality comes calling

 

 

 

Oops she did it again: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez campaigns with Bernie Sanders in Kansas, immediately inserts foot in mouth

 

 

 

‘This is painful’: Planned Parenthood of NYC takes cursing to the next level in new ad

 

.

[keepthefaith]

23 minutes ago, B-Man said:

‘Really?’ Sen. Kamala Harris wants federal government to ‘ease the burden’ of rent, reality comes calling

 

 

 

Oops she did it again: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez campaigns with Bernie Sanders in Kansas, immediately inserts foot in mouth

 

 

 

‘This is painful’: Planned Parenthood of NYC takes cursing to the next level in new ad

 

.

 

Oh come on Kamala, get on the UBI bus.  That's the hot new social program in the making. 

[IDBillzFan]

5 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

Oh come on Kamala, get on the UBI bus.  That's the hot new social program in the making. 

 

 

I have no idea why she is bringing up the burden of rent. She and the rest of the dems have made housing very affordable in CA. You even have room to park your bike.

 

 

[RaoulDuke79]

22 hours ago, ALF said:

Then at the other end of the spectrum

 

Nazis and anti-Semites slip through GOP primaries, causing headaches for party

 

Arthur Jones is an avowed member of the American Nazi Party, a Holocaust denier and a sympathizer of the Ku Klux Klan.

 

He also is the Republican candidate challenging Democratic Rep. Dan Lipinski for Illinois’ Chicago-area 3rd Congressional District. 

 

Jones is one of several Nazis, Holocaust deniers or white supremacists who have elbowed their way onto the GOP ballot for November’s midterm elections, in part by either concealing their views or running unopposed in the primary. 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/20/nazis-and-anti-semites-slip-through-gop-primaries-causing-headaches-for-party.html

Well you have Nazi Republicans and Socialist Democrats......you tend to get !@#$s when you swing too far either way.

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

Because that's exactly what I need to do. Support more poor people with MY hard-earned money.

 

No amount of guilt will make me feel good about that.

 

 

I was not saying that was what should be done. I don't think a struggling middle class needs more taxes. I was more so saying that the evening out of the federal income tax distribution couldn't come from the poor since the poor have so little income. If you taxed the 45% that don't pay federal income tax at 100% it wouldn't be that much more than the whole worth of the Bush tax cut on the top income bracket. 

 

So this meme that some (not you in particular) float out that because 45% of American workers don't pay federal income tax that must mean that if we taxed them more there would be a lot more money coming into the system which just isn't true by the numbers. 

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, keepthefaith said:

 

Above $128K is not subject to FICA (social security) tax yes correct, but that is a program for all with capped benefits and capped contributions.  Seems like one of the only fair payroll taxes we have.  It's a separate program or is supposed to be.  We need a flatter fed tax rate system and a law that only allows taxation to rise or fall at the same rate regardless of income. That way we get politicians out of the business of picking which group of earners should pay a greater or lesser percentage and we get all Americans more on the same page scrutinizing federal spending since all are paying a similar rate.  Deductions for family necessities or encouraged behavior (health care insurance, health care costs, education, retirement savings, home ownership, charitable contributions and maybe a couple of others should be the only deductions. 

 

There have been some good arguments made for not taxing labor or earnings at all and only taxing consumption, but seems too radical to get any political traction. 

 

Consumption taxes replacing income taxes would mean much more of the tax burden would fall on the working class and middle class. In general, the highest earners spend a much lower percentage of their income on consumption. I honestly do favor a progressive tax system, the draconian cuts to vital programs needed to have a flat tax or less progressive system would not be worth the "Fairness" that is sought out by people who advocate for a flatter tax system. Are we really trying to get more taxes out of the working poor and middle class in order to give the wealthy more money? 

 

I would much rather see money spent on education, infrastructure, and job training than on tax cuts for high earners. Are there things the government spends money on that is terrible that could be cut? Of course, I think the military is bloated, I think there are a lot of subsidies and crony capitalist things going on and as with any large entity, there is waste and inefficiency. But just because there are things that could be cut doesn't mean that the money used for tax cuts couldn't be put to better use securing the future of the American workforce through infrastructure and jobs training programs. 

[row_33]

3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Consumption taxes replacing income taxes would mean much more of the tax burden would fall on the working class and middle class. In general, the highest earners spend a much lower percentage of their income on consumption. I honestly do favor a progressive tax system, the draconian cuts to vital programs needed to have a flat tax or less progressive system would not be worth the "Fairness" that is sought out by people who advocate for a flatter tax system. Are we really trying to get more taxes out of the working poor and middle class in order to give the wealthy more money? 

 

I would much rather see money spent on education, infrastructure, and job training than on tax cuts for high earners. Are there things the government spends money on that is terrible that could be cut? Of course, I think the military is bloated, I think there are a lot of subsidies and crony capitalist things going on and as with any large entity, there is waste and inefficiency. But just because there are things that could be cut doesn't mean that the money used for tax cuts couldn't be put to better use securing the future of the American workforce through infrastructure and jobs training programs. 

 

Sounds good

 

But that’s not how it works 

[GG]

20 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I was not saying that was what should be done. I don't think a struggling middle class needs more taxes. I was more so saying that the evening out of the federal income tax distribution couldn't come from the poor since the poor have so little income. If you taxed the 45% that don't pay federal income tax at 100% it wouldn't be that much more than the whole worth of the Bush tax cut on the top income bracket. 

 

So this meme that some (not you in particular) float out that because 45% of American workers don't pay federal income tax that must mean that if we taxed them more there would be a lot more money coming into the system which just isn't true by the numbers. 

 

And you keep missing the bigger point.  As more and more people don't pay ANY income tax, it's a lot easier to push populist platforms that promise them more free stuff.  There's zero incentive for them to vote no on those proposals, which eventually will lead to a fiscal disaster.   Everyone should have skin in the game, and the minimum income based tax should be 15%.