QB rumors about importance of concussions in choices

[KingRex]

 

I spoke with a fellow who talked to a fellow (so though this interests me because it explains some Bills player moves I do not understand but this clearly comes from a rumor chain).  At any rate the guy I spoke to is very sport intelligent and level headed.  He says the initial info comes from a guy connected to the Bills medical staff who does not seem to have any financial ties to any particular player or anything more than a technical relationship with the Bills (and thus is not a member of any Beane clan, Brandon group or some internal faction.

 

At any rate, this fellow was privy to some of the Bills management thinking because apparently the issue of concussions and its implications for long term Bills financial commitments ended up being a huge unknown wildcard in the Bill's draft and contract decisions this year.  This fellow came in as an expert on concussion occurrence and reoccurrence.  He ended up talking a lot with the Bills braintrust, sitting in on a bunch of important meetings like a fly on the wall.  He was brought in as a medical expert but since he had no direct player care duties did not feel bound to medical rules of silence about specific players and as a temporary consultant did not feel bound to team secrecy.

 

At any rate he says:

 

1.  The Bills had mixed feelings about Tyrod's abilities feeling he had big plusses as a vet NFL starter (a pretty rare positive in the NFL which folks who want to declare him simply a bad player who should be cut just demonstrate how little they really understand the game.  The proof that he has real value is that the Bills got the first pick in the 3rd for him.  However, as true as it is like it or not he is one of a handful of men who QB''ed an NFL team to the playoffs, he simply was not productive in this playoff game and despite his rare experience and some singular talents (great runner and throws few INTs), he also has some serious flaws in his game that are challenging for an HC and OC to overcome.

 

McD originally believed these problems were too big and was interested in other options.  The Peterman experiment took place in part due to these doubts that Tyrod couldn't be coached up at this vet age.  However, a combination of NP's complete failure and the realization our OC was in over his head and a big part of our O's problems (and possibly Tyrod's timidity as he appeared for good reason not to believe in our passing game or playcalling).  At any rate TT eventually earned McD's faith because he handled his demotion in a professional manner and in the end he QB'ed his team to the playoffs.  In the end, its the NFL and winning means a lot (he won in the regular season but not in the playoffs, but for this bteam he won!

 

So why did TT go bye-bye?

 

Wins speak loudly because generally wins mean money and in the NFL $ speak loudest of all.

 

The Tyrod decision came down in the end to a statistical measure of his concussion risk.  In the end, the measure of the number of concussions (major and minor) he has had and the fact that as a running QB who even when he passes depends upon his escapability rather than a quick release to avoid sacks makes TT too big of a risk for a long term commitment at QB and in particular for a huge guaranteed contract.

 

TT was well worth a 3rd to a team which wanted him as a 1 year commitment and help coach's train their true future QB on when TT made a good decision not to throw and even more important when a gun shy TT should have thrown.  The Bills looked vat the concussion risk, Pegula's money and the ROI to be gained by trading TT and bye-bye-

 

2. The 2 Joshes-  The Bills apparently had the same football talent assessment as much of the rest of the NFL that actually had Josh Rosen as the most talented of the top 4 QBs in the draft (some had Darnold as the most likely to produce quickly).  Then why did Rosen get picked 4th of these QBs and the 10th overall?  Apparently the chemistry of the interviews overall and 2 big non play issues weighed heavily on the Bills.  Concussions and $.

 

Rosen apparently graded out statistically as a significant concussion risk (it probably won't happen but he has a significantly higher risk than the other 3 QBs.

 

Even worse, the odd Rosen $ problem is that his family has a lot (he is an heir to a fortune based on the Purell product apparently).  Apparently the haughtiness, self-confidence, and even arrogance he demonstrated in public comments and in interviews led the Bills to a conclusion (or at least a fear if they committed a bunch of time and Pegula $ to a 1st round pick) that if/when Rosen faces a future with a potential of brain damage at retirement he will simply walk away with his first rounder accolades, whatever $ from his contract he can keep and future family money.

 

I can see why he dropped so far despite his immediate high upside.

 

At any rate this is the latest wild rumor I hear but it makes sense to me.

[Jamie Nails]

I think I got a concussion reading this. I’m now sitting in a dark room and my head is throbbing. 

[fansince88]

At any rate, long story short?

[JinxedBill1]

Did you gather this at high level business meeting?

[Augie]

That’s a lot to digest. The first two gut reactions:

 

1) How many concussions has TT had, major or minor? Never a big talking point. 

 

2) I don’t think it’s IF Rosen has another concussion, it’s more WHEN it happens. I didn’t realize there was Purell money, just dad was a big time physician. 

 

5 minutes ago, Jamie Nails said:

I think I got a concussion reading this. I’m now sitting in a dark room and my head is throbbing. 

 

 

Turn out the lights and  turn off your brain. Reboot. 

[Fadingpain]

I think it is absurd to suggest that Tyrod was let go because of a concussion risk.  That is probably factor 17 on the list of reasons why they let him go.

 

If the Bills truly believed Josh Rosen to be the better QB but passed on him because of "interview chemistry", negative public comments, and because of some abstract fear he will walk away from the game prematurely due to family wealth, they are dumber than I thought.

 

 

 

 

[NoSaint]

if true, and a huge if, it would be a big gut shot to hear the bills passed on a qb that they rated higher as a player, given how rare it is to find one skilled enoughto succeed.

 

that it was his fathers finances in a substantial part seems particularly silly when any guy they draft is getting like $20m guaranteed. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by NoSaint

[Lfod]

1 hour ago, KingRex said:

 

I spoke with a fellow who talked to a fellow (so though this interests me because it explains some Bills player moves I do not understand but this clearly comes from a rumor chain).  At any rate the guy I spoke to is very sport intelligent and level headed.  He says the initial info comes from a guy connected to the Bills medical staff who does not seem to have any financial ties to any particular player or anything more than a technical relationship with the Bills (and thus is not a member of any Beane clan, Brandon group or some internal faction.

 

At any rate, this fellow was privy to some of the Bills management thinking because apparently the issue of concussions and its implications for long term Bills financial commitments ended up being a huge unknown wildcard in the Bill's draft and contract decisions this year.  This fellow came in as an expert on concussion occurrence and reoccurrence.  He ended up talking a lot with the Bills braintrust, sitting in on a bunch of important meetings like a fly on the wall.  He was brought in as a medical expert but since he had no direct player care duties did not feel bound to medical rules of silence about specific players and as a temporary consultant did not feel bound to team secrecy.

 

At any rate he says:

 

1.  The Bills had mixed feelings about Tyrod's abilities feeling he had big plusses as a vet NFL starter (a pretty rare positive in the NFL which folks who want to declare him simply a bad player who should be cut just demonstrate how little they really understand the game.  The proof that he has real value is that the Bills got the first pick in the 3rd for him.  However, as true as it is like it or not he is one of a handful of men who QB''ed an NFL team to the playoffs, he simply was not productive in this playoff game and despite his rare experience and some singular talents (great runner and throws few INTs), he also has some serious flaws in his game that are challenging for an HC and OC to overcome.

 

McD originally believed these problems were too big and was interested in other options.  The Peterman experiment took place in part due to these doubts that Tyrod couldn't be coached up at this vet age.  However, a combination of NP's complete failure and the realization our OC was in over his head and a big part of our O's problems (and possibly Tyrod's timidity as he appeared for good reason not to believe in our passing game or playcalling).  At any rate TT eventually earned McD's faith because he handled his demotion in a professional manner and in the end he QB'ed his team to the playoffs.  In the end, its the NFL and winning means a lot (he won in the regular season but not in the playoffs, but for this bteam he won!

 

So why did TT go bye-bye?

 

Wins speak loudly because generally wins mean money and in the NFL $ speak loudest of all.

 

The Tyrod decision came down in the end to a statistical measure of his concussion risk.  In the end, the measure of the number of concussions (major and minor) he has had and the fact that as a running QB who even when he passes depends upon his escapability rather than a quick release to avoid sacks makes TT too big of a risk for a long term commitment at QB and in particular for a huge guaranteed contract.

 

TT was well worth a 3rd to a team which wanted him as a 1 year commitment and help coach's train their true future QB on when TT made a good decision not to throw and even more important when a gun shy TT should have thrown.  The Bills looked vat the concussion risk, Pegula's money and the ROI to be gained by trading TT and bye-bye-

 

2. The 2 Joshes-  The Bills apparently had the same football talent assessment as much of the rest of the NFL that actually had Josh Rosen as the most talented of the top 4 QBs in the draft (some had Darnold as the most likely to produce quickly).  Then why did Rosen get picked 4th of these QBs and the 10th overall?  Apparently the chemistry of the interviews overall and 2 big non play issues weighed heavily on the Bills.  Concussions and $.

 

Rosen apparently graded out statistically as a significant concussion risk (it probably won't happen but he has a significantly higher risk than the other 3 QBs.

 

Even worse, the odd Rosen $ problem is that his family has a lot (he is an heir to a fortune based on the Purell product apparently).  Apparently the haughtiness, self-confidence, and even arrogance he demonstrated in public comments and in interviews led the Bills to a conclusion (or at least a fear if they committed a bunch of time and Pegula $ to a 1st round pick) that if/when Rosen faces a future with a potential of brain damage at retirement he will simply walk away with his first rounder accolades, whatever $ from his contract he can keep and future family money.

 

I can see why he dropped so far despite his immediate high upside.

 

At any rate this is the latest wild rumor I hear but it makes sense to me.

Tyrod was a backup taking paycuts at the very end. His production problems didn't appear for just one playoff game. I would like to direct you to the Bills vs Panthers game last season. So it evidenced early in the season and the final game. Tyrod can have a handful of good games but it was never sustainable or dominating. 

 

Don't forget that Tyrod was just some teams back up brought in to see if he could reach the next level of starter. He didn't completely fail but he didn't pass the test either bro. Tyrod still has a lot to prove in Cleveland in my opinion. 

 

I dont think Tyrod really should be touting himself as a playoff QB. He absolutely was figured out and planted on his head in that game. 

 

Petermans 5 interception game doesn't make Tyrods 3 point games somehow amazing. I agree with you that it's about winning and sometimes the chances of it happening with Tyrod were slim. You just knew in some games it wasn't happening. So concussion concerns I'm sure we're a factor but we didn't trade some all star for a 3rd because of it. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Lfod

[Kirby Jackson]

Please, please, please don’t turn this into a Tyrod thread. For some reason anytime someone mentions him, certain people jump into say “yeah but he wasn’t good.” This thread isn’t about Tyrod. The OP clearly said that they had “mixed feelings” on him. I think that a lot of people did.

 

The point of this thread was to talk about how teams are factoring in concussion issues. “The most important ability is availability.” That has been a motto of McDermott since he got here. The Bills seem to be taking that seriously. That’s the story here not Tyrod vs. the Panthers. 

 

FWIW, I think that it is something that needs to be considered. We’ve seen a bunch of guys recently walk away for fear over their long-term health. It is still a secondary factor in my opinion but when you have a decision to make it can be a tiebreaker. It is “A” factor not “THE” factor.

[Happy]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Please, please, please don’t turn this into a Tyrod thread. For some reason anytime someone mentions him, certain people jump into say “yeah but he wasn’t good.” This thread isn’t about Tyrod. The OP clearly said that they had “mixed feelings” on him. I think that a lot of people did.

 

The point of this thread was to talk about how teams are factoring in concussion issues. “The most important ability is availability.” That has been a motto of McDermott since he got here. The Bills seem to be taking that seriously. That’s the story here not Tyrod vs. the Panthers. 

 

FWIW, I think that it is something that needs to be considered. We’ve seen a bunch of guys recently walk away for fear over their long-term health. It is still a secondary factor in my opinion but when you have a decision to make it can be a tiebreaker. It is “A” factor not “THE” factor.

 

Yep.  I think that is a big reason why Glenn got traded and they let EJ Gaines walk.  But as for Tyrod, I'm not so sure that....j/k.

[White Linen]

59 minutes ago, Jamie Nails said:

I think I got a concussion reading this. I’m now sitting in a dark room and my head is throbbing. 

 

You forgot to put that in parenthesis.  

[Lfod]

24 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Please, please, please don’t turn this into a Tyrod thread. For some reason anytime someone mentions him, certain people jump into say “yeah but he wasn’t good.” This thread isn’t about Tyrod. The OP clearly said that they had “mixed feelings” on him. I think that a lot of people did.

 

The point of this thread was to talk about how teams are factoring in concussion issues. “The most important ability is availability.” That has been a motto of McDermott since he got here. The Bills seem to be taking that seriously. That’s the story here not Tyrod vs. the Panthers. 

 

FWIW, I think that it is something that needs to be considered. We’ve seen a bunch of guys recently walk away for fear over their long-term health. It is still a secondary factor in my opinion but when you have a decision to make it can be a tiebreaker. It is “A” factor not “THE” factor.

I read the original post. It does a lot of talking in circles then comes back to concussion being a huge factor. Plus the op does call out people for not thinking Tyrod is that good as not knowing the game of football. A little bias was showing. Although I wouldn't doubt concussions are being taken seriously and they should be. 

 

I'll sum it up. It's about winning, Tyrod didn't cut it in the playoffs. Why is he gone? Concussions...

 

Josh Rosen don't need the NFL money and has a huge ego but is better then Allen. Why didn't we pick Rosen? Concussions...

Edited July 15, 2018 by Lfod

[Maybe Someday]

I don't believe concussions had anything to do with TT being traded. He clearly wasn't McD's long term solution so while the subject may have come up, his overall performance, lack of upside and most importantly the 1st pick of the 3rd round are why he's gone. 

 

I can however see that being more of a consideration in taking Allen over Rosen...assuming they had roughly the same grade on them. You want the guy that wants to play for 15+ years. Any concerns that Rosen won't tips the scales toward Allen.

[gjv001]

From all accounts, Beane and company had Allen as their top QB pick from the onset. 

[RocCityRoller]

I stated all along the injury history with Rosen including two concussions would be a factor in the draft.

 

That and two throwing shoulder injuries.

 

Rosen will probably have 3-5 very good NFL seasons and then ride into the sunset. He is not a long term answer.

[billsfan60]

Two things come to mind:

 

1. Taylor was not responsible for the drought.

 

2. Taylor was not responsible for ending the drought.

 

 

He was "just a guy" playing the one position where being "just a guy" plain and simply won't cut it. That's why he's gone. 

 

The Allen Rosen debate is all conjecture till we see them play.

[NoSaint]

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Please, please, please don’t turn this into a Tyrod thread. For some reason anytime someone mentions him, certain people jump into say “yeah but he wasn’t good.” This thread isn’t about Tyrod. The OP clearly said that they had “mixed feelings” on him. I think that a lot of people did.

 

The point of this thread was to talk about how teams are factoring in concussion issues. “The most important ability is availability.” That has been a motto of McDermott since he got here. The Bills seem to be taking that seriously. That’s the story here not Tyrod vs. the Panthers. 

 

FWIW, I think that it is something that needs to be considered. We’ve seen a bunch of guys recently walk away for fear over their long-term health. It is still a secondary factor in my opinion but when you have a decision to make it can be a tiebreaker. It is “A” factor not “THE” factor.

I would be fine on a tie breaker but if the OP claim that Rosen was otherwise rated higher is true how would you feel?

[ChevyVanMiller]

Close your parentheses.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

25 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

Rosen will probably have 3-5 very good NFL seasons and then ride into the sunset. He is not a long term answer.

Around here, 3 years IS long term.  5 years puts you in WOF / HOF years of service.  ?

[Cripple Creek]

10 hours ago, fansince88 said:

At any rate, long story short?

Tyrod is gone and they drafted the other Josh.