Buffalo_Gal Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 NATO summit live update (NYT) President Trump said that the allies at the NATO summit meeting have agreed to a significant increase in military spending. Macron said they did not. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Despite being downgraded slightly due to progressive-led charge to lower physical requirements and standards for their army over the past decade, their army is still the best fighting force in Europe. Their Air Force and Navy are almost useless (for the reasons you and others stated) in comparison to their French and British (and Russian) counterparts, but their army is still top of the food chain in the EU from what I understand. More (was this article what you were referencing, Dpberr?) Not the same article but they are writing about the same report. In the world of possibilities, if the Russians invaded Europe today, the German Army's performance would match it's World Cup soccer team performance. Edited July 12, 2018 by dpberr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Gal said: NATO summit live update (NYT) President Trump said that the allies at the NATO summit meeting have agreed to a significant increase in military spending. Macron said they did not. We shall see. i have not figured out the actual division of power in the French national government, haven't bothered to read much about it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 On 7/11/2018 at 10:44 AM, 3rdnlng said: We pay 75% of NATO's budget to protect Europe et al from mainly Russia. Most other countries pay less than half of the 3.5% of GDP that we pay. Germany, the richest country in Europe pays 1.2% of their GDP into NATO. The EU basically screws us on tariffs. For example, our tariff on a BMW's or Mercedes coming from overseas is a measly 2.5% while the EU's tariff on a Ford built in the USA is 10%. Germany is importing about 12 billion dollars of natural gas from Russia annually. The USA can now export liquified natural gas to Europe. I look at NATO and the EU in some ways as being different arms of the same body. WTF are we doing by allowing the people that we basically protect from Russia to screw us on tariffs and then put money into Russia's coffers? I think it's well past the time to correct this nonsense and it appears that we have a president in place who not only recognizes that but is willing to use our economic and military might to do something about it. I think almost everyone actually agrees with Trump on NATO and members paying their fair share.. I know I sure as hell do and have been advocating for that for 10 years. I think Obama sucked in this area, and I was an Obama supporter. To be fair, I think the 3.5% is our total defense spend, not all of it is NATO spend, but I could be wrong. Where we differ is how to get members to pony up. I do not think it is through a trade war. As to your example above, yes there may be a 10% tariff as you mention, but there is a 25% tariff on pickups coming into this country. There is a reason why the domestics have dominated pickups for so long..and that is where the profit is..certainly no longer in sedans. https://www.forbes.com/sites/doronlevin/2018/03/27/want-to-sink-detroit-automakers-make-a-trade-deal-that-weakens-tariff-protecting-pickups/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 31 minutes ago, dpberr said: Not the same article but they are writing about the same report. In the world of possibilities, if the Russians invaded Europe today, the German Army's performance would match it's World Cup soccer team performance. What with the grandsons of Colonel Klink and Sergeant Schultz still in charge I'm not too confidant that Germany could hold its ground. 7 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: I think almost everyone actually agrees with Trump on NATO and members paying their fair share.. I know I sure as hell do and have been advocating for that for 10 years. I think Obama sucked in this area, and I was an Obama supporter. To be fair, I think the 3.5% is our total defense spend, not all of it is NATO spend, but I could be wrong. Where we differ is how to get members to pony up. I do not think it is through a trade war. As to your example above, yes there may be a 10% tariff as you mention, but there is a 25% tariff on pickups coming into this country. There is a reason why the domestics have dominated pickups for so long..and that is where the profit is..certainly no longer in sedans. https://www.forbes.com/sites/doronlevin/2018/03/27/want-to-sink-detroit-automakers-make-a-trade-deal-that-weakens-tariff-protecting-pickups/ The whole tariff mess is like our income tax laws, FUBARED. I'm for free trade and let the chips fall where they may. Trump's tariff moves (everywhere) have been just stirring the pot to try to get things done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 25 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: The whole tariff mess is like our income tax laws, FUBARED. I'm for free trade and let the chips fall where they may. Trump's tariff moves (everywhere) have been just stirring the pot to try to get things done. Agreed on the FUBAR!!!! Also think Trump started with the intention of stirring the pot, my fear is he wants to win the battle so bad he loses the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 WELL, THIS HARSHES THE NARRATIVE: House Democrat: ‘China declared trade war,’ not Trump. President Trump isn’t to blame for the outbreak of a trade war with China, a senior House Democrat argued Wednesday. “We’re now told that this is Trump’s trade war,” Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif., said during a Foreign Affairs subcommittee hearing. “No, China declared trade war on the United States, 18 years ago.” Sherman traced the economic clash back to 2000, when lawmakers formalized China’s privileged economic relationship by voting in favor of “permanent normal trade relations” with the Communist power. That legislation codified what previously had been known as “most-favored nation” status in trade with the U.S. And Sherman, who voted against the bill at the time, warned colleagues not to flip-flop on the policy out of hostility to Trump. “Before Democrats get carried away with the desire to repudiate our position, remember that 65 percent of Democrats voted ‘no’ on MFN [most favored nation status] for China,” he said. “We should not abandon that position just because some Republicans and the White House have embraced it.” I dunno, that seems to be the way things are done nowadays. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: Agreed on the FUBAR!!!! Also think Trump started with the intention of stirring the pot, my fear is he wants to win the battle so bad he loses the war. He's a negotiator so he never expects to win 100% of the pie. We are in the catbird seat here and need to have patience to let it play out. Remember, the world needs us more than we need the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 That's the president of the EU being held up like he's either drunk or infirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: That's the president of the EU being held up like he's either drunk or infirm. You think that's the president of the EU? Ha! That just shows you what a chameleon Hillary is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsidethebox Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 20 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: That's the president of the EU being held up like he's either drunk or infirm. That's not a man! That's Hillary Clinton!! 6 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Wow, yuuugggeee crowd! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, westside said: That's not a man! That's Hillary Clinton!! Wow, yuuugggeee crowd! Exactly. But the "free propaganda" outlets would have you believe it's a throng of tens of thousands. Liars, the lot of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurmal34 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 20 hours ago, joesixpack said: Liars, the lot of them. If you mean all politicians, including the prez, then yes, you are correct sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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