Scorp83 Posted July 8, 2018 Posted July 8, 2018 On 7/6/2018 at 7:19 PM, Rubes said: I wish Tyrod the best, I really do. If he somehow lights it up and leads them deep into the playoffs, that's awesome for him. And I wouldn't hold it against the Bills brass for dealing him away, as most of us here wouldn't. I just think TT reached his ceiling here in Buffalo. Could his ceiling be higher elsewhere? Sure, it's possible. Just not likely. I sort of disagree with this. I've always felt Tyrod had more ceiling left to reach. I feel like the front office was more done with him then he ceiling was... Rex & Whaley just seemed to be on 2 different pages... after his 1st season where was the weapons that can really help him? He lost Woods & Hogan, no replacement, he kept losing Sammy & the front office had no answers for injuries...no backup plan...nothing. Its was like, "Tyrod your top 3 WR's are toast...but we got you Deonte Thompson & Holmes...throw it to them. Oh & Nick O'Leary cause we don't know what to do when Clay goes down..."
Rubes Posted July 8, 2018 Posted July 8, 2018 55 minutes ago, Scorp83 said: I sort of disagree with this. I've always felt Tyrod had more ceiling left to reach. I feel like the front office was more done with him then he ceiling was... Rex & Whaley just seemed to be on 2 different pages... after his 1st season where was the weapons that can really help him? He lost Woods & Hogan, no replacement, he kept losing Sammy & the front office had no answers for injuries...no backup plan...nothing. Its was like, "Tyrod your top 3 WR's are toast...but we got you Deonte Thompson & Holmes...throw it to them. Oh & Nick O'Leary cause we don't know what to do when Clay goes down..." I think that's a reasonable argument, to be honest. But here's the thing: I've always felt that your quarterback should have the kind of talent to make the players around him better, not that your quarterback needs talented players around him to make him better. (That's an exaggeration, of course: all players are made better by having talented players around them, but you want the balance for your QB to be the former, not the latter.) TT has outstanding talent as an athlete, and brings a lot to the table -- the problem is that most of what he brings to the table is not as a QB. His QB talents are mostly average. If he was just a bit better at being a QB, he'd be a heck of a player.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 8, 2018 Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Rubes said: I think that's a reasonable argument, to be honest. But here's the thing: I've always felt that your quarterback should have the kind of talent to make the players around him better, not that your quarterback needs talented players around him to make him better. (That's an exaggeration, of course: all players are made better by having talented players around them, but you want the balance for your QB to be the former, not the latter.) TT has outstanding talent as an athlete, and brings a lot to the table -- the problem is that most of what he brings to the table is not as a QB. His QB talents are mostly average. If he was just a bit better at being a QB, he'd be a heck of a player. ...agree....his mobility factor has helped to carry him this far.......maybe Hugh can fix it, but just don't see where a consistently threatening passing game, particularly downfield is in the cards......still think his inherent weakness is the allotted "five seconds or less" to process the entire field......live ammo and facing the five second clock is a whole different world than looking amazing......in practice....
Big Gun Posted July 8, 2018 Posted July 8, 2018 16 hours ago, billsfan89 said: My point overall was that looking at the numbers neither Sammy nor Woods were dramatically better in 2017 than they were in 2018. These weren't stud receivers in 2017 who sucked in 2016. Goodwin was the only receiver that flourished in 2017 that didn't have a good year in 2016 and considering that Goodwin was hurt in 2016 that might explain that somewhat. You have know idea what you are talking about with Woods. He had one less game played in 2017 and his numbers across the board were better than in 2016. New system for him last year also and I expect even better numbers in his second year in LA. Receiving & Rushing Games Receiving Rushing Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Rush Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G YScm RRTD Fmb AV Career 69 59 430 259 3232 12.5 17 94 3.8 46.8 6 34 0 13 5.7 0.5 0.1 3266 17 4 28 4 yrs BUF 57 48 345 203 2451 12.1 12 57 3.6 43.0 4 22 0 13 5.5 0.4 0.1 2473 12 3 20 1 yr LAR 12 11 85 56 781 13.9 5 94 4.7 65.1 2 12 0 8 6.0 1.0 0.2 793 5 1 8 2013 21 BUF WR 10 14 14 85 40 587 14.7 3 57 2.9 41.9 47.1% 2 16 0 13 8.0 1.1 0.1 603 3 0 4 2014 22 BUF WR 10 16 15 104 65 699 10.8 5 37 4.1 43.7 62.5% 699 5 1 5 2015 23 BUF WR 10 14 9 80 47 552 11.7 3 37 3.4 39.4 58.8% 1 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0.1 552 3 2 5 2016 24 BUF WR 10 13 10 76 51 613 12.0 1 34 3.9 47.2 67.1% 1 6 0 6 6.0 0.5 0.1 619 1 0 6 2017 25 LAR WR 17 12 11 85 56 781 13.9 5 94 4.7 65.1 65.9% 2 12 0 8 6.0 1.0 0.2 793 5 1 8
fansince88 Posted July 8, 2018 Posted July 8, 2018 6 hours ago, PeterGriffin said: You have know idea what you are talking about with Woods. He had one less game played in 2017 and his numbers across the board were better than in 2016. New system for him last year also and I expect even better numbers in his second year in LA. Receiving & Rushing Games Receiving Rushing Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Rush Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G YScm RRTD Fmb AV Career 69 59 430 259 3232 12.5 17 94 3.8 46.8 6 34 0 13 5.7 0.5 0.1 3266 17 4 28 4 yrs BUF 57 48 345 203 2451 12.1 12 57 3.6 43.0 4 22 0 13 5.5 0.4 0.1 2473 12 3 20 1 yr LAR 12 11 85 56 781 13.9 5 94 4.7 65.1 2 12 0 8 6.0 1.0 0.2 793 5 1 8 2013 21 BUF WR 10 14 14 85 40 587 14.7 3 57 2.9 41.9 47.1% 2 16 0 13 8.0 1.1 0.1 603 3 0 4 2014 22 BUF WR 10 16 15 104 65 699 10.8 5 37 4.1 43.7 62.5% 699 5 1 5 2015 23 BUF WR 10 14 9 80 47 552 11.7 3 37 3.4 39.4 58.8% 1 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0.1 552 3 2 5 2016 24 BUF WR 10 13 10 76 51 613 12.0 1 34 3.9 47.2 67.1% 1 6 0 6 6.0 0.5 0.1 619 1 0 6 2017 25 LAR WR 17 12 11 85 56 781 13.9 5 94 4.7 65.1 65.9% 2 12 0 8 6.0 1.0 0.2 793 5 1 8 Is it just me or did those stats on the bottom look like fish?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 13 hours ago, Scorp83 said: I sort of disagree with this. I've always felt Tyrod had more ceiling left to reach. I feel like the front office was more done with him then he ceiling was... Rex & Whaley just seemed to be on 2 different pages... after his 1st season where was the weapons that can really help him? He lost Woods & Hogan, no replacement, he kept losing Sammy & the front office had no answers for injuries...no backup plan...nothing. Its was like, "Tyrod your top 3 WR's are toast...but we got you Deonte Thompson & Holmes...throw it to them. Oh & Nick O'Leary cause we don't know what to do when Clay goes down..." I don't see what you're saying and Rubes as fundamentally incompatible - he mentioned "his ceiling in Buffalo", which to me includes the scheme adjustments the coaches were willing to make for him, the investment the FO was willing to make on WR that Tyrod could work with comfortably, and so forth. A blind man's seeing eye dog could discern that Tyrod is simply not comfortable throwing into tight windows, and Thompson and Holmes and Matthews simply weren't getting the kind of separation he'll work with - plus there was no one left like Goodwin who could run under his long bombs. I think both can be right. With what the coaches and FO were willing (or not willing) to do, Tyrod was plateaued B'lo, AND he may show that he still has more ceiling to reach in Cleveland. 1
transplantbillsfan Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 5:31 AM, HappyDays said: One thing I've heard out of Browns media reports is that Tyrod has been trusting Josh Gordon, and throws him the ball even when he's covered. IF that carries over to the regular season the Browns will have a very good offense this year. Potentially top 10 in scoring although that will also depend on their run game which is hard to predict right now. The other thing I've heard is that they are using Tyrod's mobility in their offense which Dennison somehow never figured out. If I had to bet on it I'd say their scoring offense will rank between 15th and 10th. And ours will rank between 23rd to 18th. JMO One thing objective Bills fans should have learned is that when Taylor develops trust in an Elite talent at WR, he's going to throw him the ball even if he's covered. That was what developed with Sammy... problem was Sammy couldn't stay on the field. Now he has both Gordon and Landry. Trading Tyrod wad a good move for us because it was clear we weren't going to build around him, but luckily for Taylor, it looks like he was traded to a team that's built for him. I see the same haters are at it in this thread.
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 I want to hear what Landry has to say when he has 4 catches for 47 yard after week 3 and they are 0-3.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 15 hours ago, fansince88 said: Unloading Tyrod got us Allen. I dont care. Nah, it got us Edmunds. 1 1
Fadingpain Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 15 hours ago, fansince88 said: Unloading Tyrod got us Allen. I dont care. You state this as if to suggest Allen is a known commodity of high quality. He isn't, and may well prove to be worse than Tyrod.
Royale with Cheese Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: One thing objective Bills fans should have learned is that when Taylor develops trust in an Elite talent at WR, he's going to throw him the ball even if he's covered. That was what developed with Sammy... problem was Sammy couldn't stay on the field. Now he has both Gordon and Landry. Trading Tyrod wad a good move for us because it was clear we weren't going to build around him, but luckily for Taylor, it looks like he was traded to a team that's built for him. I see the same haters are at it in this thread. Trans....not really true. In the games Watkins played with Taylor, in 2015 with 14 games played it was 6.7 targets per game. In 2016 with 8 games played, it was 6.5 targets per game. 1
Shaw66 Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 I liked Taylor but I don't mind that he's gone. Maybe his ceiling is higher than we saw, and I think it is, but I still don't mind. Why? Because I trust McDermott and Beane. They decided that Taylor didn't fit what they're trying to do, whatever that may be. Maybe he didn't fit because TT couldn't ever be better than we saw. Maybe he didn't fit for other reasons. I don't know. What I do know is that McD know what they want and Tyrod wasn't it. There are four possible outcomes: 1. McB are winners and TT is a star. .2. McB are winners and TT never emerges. 3. McB bust and TT is a star. 4. McB bust and TT never emerges. I'm great with 1 or 2. 1
Thunderstruck Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 Clearly he has been wearing his game day suits to pre season workouts... Only logical explanation here
TigerJ Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) Of course, everybody needs to remember that Jarvis Landry came out of LSU, and LSU players have no idea what a real QB looks like. He was drafted by Miami, so his only up close look at QBs in practice have beenRyan Tannehill and Jay Cutler. So, we should probably cut him a little slack in his assessment of QBs. Edited July 9, 2018 by TigerJ 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, TigerJ said: Of course, everybody needs to remember that Jarvis Landry came out of LSU, and LSU players have no idea what a real QB looks like. He was drafted by Miami, so his only up close look at QBs in practice have beenRyan Tannehill and Jay Cutler. So, we should probably cut him a little slack in his assessment of QBs. I had this thought exactly. Although some here who indulge hyperbole about Taylor's badness as a QB, can't raise that argument....? Plus, many a QB has been a "preseason warrior" in shorts and a red shirt, and looked lost during game action (vice versa as well) 26 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I liked Taylor but I don't mind that he's gone. Maybe his ceiling is higher than we saw, and I think it is, but I still don't mind. Why? Because I trust McDermott and Beane. They decided that Taylor didn't fit what they're trying to do, whatever that may be. Maybe he didn't fit because TT couldn't ever be better than we saw. Maybe he didn't fit for other reasons. I don't know. What I do know is that McD know what they want and Tyrod wasn't it. There are four possible outcomes: 1. McB are winners and TT is a star. .2. McB are winners and TT never emerges. 3. McB bust and TT is a star. 4. McB bust and TT never emerges. I'm great with 1 or 2. I don't know if I trust McDermott and Beane on offense yet. I don't know if I trust Daboll. I don't know that I distrust them; I'm with "not yet proven" on offense. I agree with your first statement and your four outcomes, too, although I will admit 3. will be painful to swallow. 2
Shaw66 Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 38 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't know if I trust McDermott and Beane on offense yet. I don't know if I trust Daboll. I don't know that I distrust them; I'm with "not yet proven" on offense. I agree with your first statement and your four outcomes, too, although I will admit 3. will be painful to swallow. I'm kind of surprised at myself, but I have supreme confidence in McB. I don't know if Daboll is the answer, but McB have a process, as we know, and we've already seen that if a guy doesn't fit the process (Dennison, Dareus, Watkins, Taylor) he gets moved quickly. So I think if Daboll isn't the answer, the answer will arrive soon enough. Yes, 3 would be hard to swallow, but would it be really that much worse than 4? McB failing would break my heart. Absent a major disaster, McB will be with the Bills another four years. I'm getting old, and the thought of starting over then with another leadership group what's tough for me to swallow. So maybe it isn't that my supreme confidence is rational; it's simply that at my age they look like the last best hope, so they'd better be the ones. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 38 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I'm kind of surprised at myself, but I have supreme confidence in McB. I don't know if Daboll is the answer, but McB have a process, as we know, and we've already seen that if a guy doesn't fit the process (Dennison, Dareus, Watkins, Taylor) he gets moved quickly. So I think if Daboll isn't the answer, the answer will arrive soon enough. Yes, 3 would be hard to swallow, but would it be really that much worse than 4? McB failing would break my heart. Absent a major disaster, McB will be with the Bills another four years. I'm getting old, and the thought of starting over then with another leadership group what's tough for me to swallow. So maybe it isn't that my supreme confidence is rational; it's simply that at my age they look like the last best hope, so they'd better be the ones. Illogical, perhaps, but to me it would be worse. I still struggle with trading up to draft TJ Graham when Russ Wilson was still on the board, and then not making a move for Kirk Cousins. So it's going to be hard for me to let go of if Allen busts but Rosen shines, or if TT looks great in Cleveland while Allen is deemed not ready and we don't have a servicable QB (if TT shines while AJ or Peterman are capable, I don't care).
keepthefaith Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 Tyrod has yet to play a down against an actual defense as a Cleveland Brown. Time.Will.Tell.
EasternOHBillsFan Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 12:13 PM, HappyDays said: In 2016 Tyrod had 23 total TDs. The RBs combined had 23 rushing TDs. He also had 3,603 total yards, and the RBs combined had 2,050 rushing yards. So Tyrod accounted for 63.7% of our total yards and 50% of our TDs in 2016. I'm sure that's a lower percentage than most QBs in the NFL, but to say our high scoring offense was mainly a product of our rushing game is disingenuous at best. Why are you defending this guy STILL:? He only had one 300 yard passing game here, and for good reason... he can't sustain a passing offense. Scoring offense rank? Please... The Tyrod sycophants are still trying to defend this guy.
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