BigDingus Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 I'm not sure where I'd rank everyone, but I agree with quite a few things others have posted. Brady is easily #1. Aikman wasn't "better" than a lot of these QB's, but if it's based on sheer winning, sure, he belongs (same with Bradshaw). Rodgers definitely belongs in the top 10 already. Kelly deserves a top 20 spot, but as Bills fans, we definitely think higher of him than others. He averaged 21.5 TD's & 16 INT's a season, which really isn't much to write home about. His impressive accomplishments come from him basically calling his own plays, being that actual field-general, and being the QB of a stacked team that went to 4 SB's. He had 3 seasons throwing for more/same amount of INT's than TD's, and only broke 30 TD's once. But then again, compared to his peers, it looks better. John Elway averaged 18.75 TD's & 14 INT's a season, while Steve Young averaged 17 TD's & 6.5 INT's a season for the 49er's. So he had averaged more TD's, but also more INT's, and was in the middle with yards. Some give him more credit for the SB streak, some give him less due to the talent around him. Some also take away credit simply because he never won any of those SB's. So I see both sides, but when it comes to definitive "greats," he's somewhere in the top 20-15 range.
Doc Brown Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Logic said: Being a Bills fan and being realistic need not be mutually exclusive. Have you seen the season record predictions threads the last decade and a half? 4
BigDingus Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 12 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Have you seen the season record predictions threads the last decade and a half? How every year we're at least 10-6 or better? lol 1
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 1 hour ago, BigDingus said: How every year we're at least 10-6 or better? lol 'New math'?
Dadonkadonk Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 Leaving out Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers is really bad. Rodgers, Fouts, Young, and Brees are all better than Kelly, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, and Bradshaw Brady is #1. I was a Montana holdout until a few years ago. I can only imagine what Montana would do in this era. I still put Montana ahead of Manning. The era argument is kind of funny. What would Ronnie Lott or Dick Labeau or Dick NIghtrain Lane be in today's era? The great DB's of the past might not be so great in today's era. That is why you have to keep guys like Unitus and Baugh in the list. They dominated there era just as much as Brady does this one.
Bing Bong Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 If we're going Sammy Baugh what about Bart Starr 6 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Steve Young belong on that list. He led the NFL in passer rating six times, is 4th all time in rushing yards, and has a title. Young, Rodgers, and Fouts on. Aikman, Kelly, and Moon off. Rodgers will be in the top 5 by the time he retires. Rankings wise I don't really see Elway always being head and shoulders over his contemporaries. If my life depended on it I'm not sure I wouldn't take Steve Young, Dan Marino or Brett Favre over Elway in a game. Was pretty disappointing in his early Superbowls and was a game manager on a stacked team in his twilight. Not to mention that offensive line chip blocked the **** out of DL men, they were insanely dirty and successful. Just saying he's in the 8-12 range in the mix with Favre, Marino, Young
Dadonkadonk Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: If we're going Sammy Baugh what about Bart Starr I would put him in the category with Aikman and Bradshaw but ahead of Tarkenton and Kelly. He was not the reason his teams won championships but he was a very good QB on a great team. Championships don't outweigh talent. That is why I would still put Fouts and Marino ahead of all the guys that won championships with great teams. For me Marino is top 5 with no rings and Young is top 10 even with only one championship. 1
folz Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) I think you could make a case for Kelly either to be on the list or not, I personally would have him on. But I do think its a bit crazy to say he should be off the list without first pulling Aikman off the list (let alone be sitting at number 10). And someone even claimed that Aikman was clutch...not really. He was a steady player and a good leader on a great team. Yes, Aikman had a big game in his first Super Bowl against the Bills (473 yds 4 TDs), but his other two Super Bowls were quiet (SB#2: 207 yds 0 TDs 1 INT 2 sacks; SB#3: 209 yds 1 TD 2 sacks). Not exactly what I would call clutch. Aikman played in 16 playoff games/SBs. His averages per postseason game are 241 yds 1TD 1INT 2 sacks. (Unrounded stats: 240.6 yds, 1.4 TDs, 1.06 INTs, 2.1 sacks) Not exactly eye-popping numbers and not that different from Kelly's post season averages (despite Kelly having 4 pretty horrible SBs weighing his stats down) 227 yds 1TD 2 Ints 1 sack(227.2 yds 1.23 TDs, 1.64 INTs, 1.47 sacks). 4th quarter comebacks: Kelly is tied with 3 players at #23 (meaning he's in the 23-26 range) all-time Aikman is tied with 13 players at #58 (meaning he's in the 58-70 range) all-time So, again, not so clutch Career: Kelly years: 11 record: 101-59 yards: 35, 467 TDs: 237 Ints: 175 Aikman years: 12 record: 94-71 yards: 32,942 TDs: 165 Ints: 141 And unlike Canadian stats that count for say Warren Moon, Jim doesn't get to add his USFL stats, which were: + 9,482 yards 83 TDs 45 Ints Edited July 6, 2018 by folz
Capco Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 I often wonder about using a time machine and swapping QBs of different eras to see how they would compete. Just a hunch, but I have a feeling Brady would wither away and die an early football death if he played in a less QB-friendly era. I think some of the old time greats would put up similar yards, TD:INT ratios, and passer ratings to the QBs of today. Bills example: Tyrod is the highest rated (passer rating) QB in Bills history, isn't he? There's no way in hell you can convince me that he's a better QB than Kelly. 1
Doc Brown Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 1 hour ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: If we're going Sammy Baugh what about Bart Starr Rankings wise I don't really see Elway always being head and shoulders over his contemporaries. If my life depended on it I'm not sure I wouldn't take Steve Young, Dan Marino or Brett Favre over Elway in a game. Was pretty disappointing in his early Superbowls and was a game manager on a stacked team in his twilight. Not to mention that offensive line chip blocked the **** out of DL men, they were insanely dirty and successful. Just saying he's in the 8-12 range in the mix with Favre, Marino, Young It's hard to compare eras as playing QB in the 30's and 40's was dramatically different than the 50's and 60's. For one thing, the football was more round when Baugh played making it more difficult to throw. He made the forward pass popular. He amazingly completed 70.33% of his passes one season (4th highest of all time). He still holds two records in leading the league in passing six times (tied with Young for most of all time) and lead the league with the lowest incompletion percentage 5 times (most of all time). He also played defensive back and kicker and is the only player to ever lead the league in passing yards, punting yards, and interceptions. So, he was pretty darn good. Bart Starr would definitely be top 25, but he benefited from a great team. When it comes to Elway, the drive always comes to mind. The five Superbowl appearances and two victories with the helicopter dive has to be factored in. Marino was the better passer, but I'd put Elway ahead of Marino because of the playoff success. 1
row_33 Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) Elway provided the only AFC playoff game in the SB run during which I thought the Bills would lose, won by Bailey’s defensive TD. i didn’t shut off the Van Miller radio call during the comeback game, it didn’t seem over at any point, I sure woulda shut it off. the rest were total jokes Edited July 6, 2018 by row_33
bobobonators Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 No player that played primarily in an all-white league should ever be placed in a top anything list. The competition today is light years ahead of what it was 50-60yrs ago. Only the best of the best get to play today whereas back then certain groups of people simply werent even allowed to play. Any player that excels in the modern era is worlds better than a player from 60yrs ago; or even 30-40 years ago. Theyre faster, stronger and more specialized today. Not even going to address the Aaron Rodgers omission. A QB like Russel Wilson is 10x the player than Otto Graham ever was. Otto Graham would never even make an NFL roster today much less be among the best QB’s in the league; it’s not even debatable. The Otto Graham era of the NFL is akin to a bunch of your buddies getting wasted on thanksgiving and playing football in the backyard today. The level of specialization and competition in today’s NFL is unlike anything from decades ago. History is awesome and everything has its place in history, but lets not delude ourselves into thinking Otto can sniff the jock strap of even the worst QB’s in the league today.
BullBuchanan Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 Kelly has no business on that list and Bradshaw and Aikman are extremely overrated. Favre way too high, Brees WAY too low. 11 minutes ago, bobobonators said: No player that played primarily in an all-white league should ever be placed in a top anything list. The competition today is light years ahead of what it was 50-60yrs ago. Only the best of the best get to play today whereas back then certain groups of people simply werent even allowed to play. Any player that excels in the modern era is worlds better than a player from 60yrs ago; or even 30-40 years ago. Theyre faster, stronger and more specialized today. Not even going to address the Aaron Rodgers omission. A QB like Russel Wilson is 10x the player than Otto Graham ever was. Otto Graham would never even make an NFL roster today much less be among the best QB’s in the league; it’s not even debatable. The Otto Graham era of the NFL is akin to a bunch of your buddies getting wasted on thanksgiving and playing football in the backyard today. The level of specialization and competition in today’s NFL is unlike anything from decades ago. History is awesome and everything has its place in history, but lets not delude ourselves into thinking Otto can sniff the jock strap of even the worst QB’s in the league today. That's just retarded. Otto Graham went to a championship every single year he was in the league, winning 7. You can't judge him by modern standards any more than you can a '69 stingray. He's one of the most elite QBs of all time because he demolished everyone he played against.
GunnerBill Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 7 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: This is my feeling plus Aaron Rodgers belongs. Yep. He does.
formerlyofCtown Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 14 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: Rogers is better then 5 or 6 people on that list right now even if he never plays another game. The top 2 on this list are great in this Era. However there are a lot of guys on that list that would be great in any Era and Rogers is one of them. Jimbo is certainly better than 16. Marino is the GOAT.
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 If there ever was an opposing quarterback in this league that I DON'T want handling the ball late in the third quarter, with their team is down by three touchdowns, it's John Elway. He and that Denver team always seemed to be able to wipe out any deficits.
Billsfanatic8989 Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 Brady isn't # 1. Not by a long shot when you factor the cheating in. He's number 6 at best imo. 1
njbuff Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers aren't on his list? These two are easily in the top 10 of QB's all time and they aren't even on a top 16 list of a "supposedly" respected NFL man like Brandt? All lists are subject to criticism, but these two omissions are just pathetic.
Bing Bong Posted July 6, 2018 Posted July 6, 2018 7 hours ago, Doc Brown said: It's hard to compare eras as playing QB in the 30's and 40's was dramatically different than the 50's and 60's. For one thing, the football was more round when Baugh played making it more difficult to throw. He made the forward pass popular. He amazingly completed 70.33% of his passes one season (4th highest of all time). He still holds two records in leading the league in passing six times (tied with Young for most of all time) and lead the league with the lowest incompletion percentage 5 times (most of all time). He also played defensive back and kicker and is the only player to ever lead the league in passing yards, punting yards, and interceptions. So, he was pretty darn good. Bart Starr would definitely be top 25, but he benefited from a great team. When it comes to Elway, the drive always comes to mind. The five Superbowl appearances and two victories with the helicopter dive has to be factored in. Marino was the better passer, but I'd put Elway ahead of Marino because of the playoff success. The helicopter dive doesn't seem so cool anymore http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000867557/Sage-Rosenfels-goes-full-blown-helicopter 1
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