Beane's Counterbalance to Missing on Josh Allen: Great Trades, Drafting, and Free Agent Pickups.

[Jay_Fixit]

On 7/2/2018 at 5:38 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agreed but if Mahomes is a stud and Allen isn’t, it wasn’t worth it.  

Mahomes won’t be a stud.

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

The quality of individual players in any draft is not determined by either the other players in that draft or by the hype spread by media talking heads. 

• In the 1983 draft, the greatest QB class ever by result not by ratings of talking heads, produced 3 HOFs plus a decent NFL starter.  The KC Chiefs still managed to pick an absolute bust in Todd Blackledge, the second QB taken.
• In the second best QB class ever, 2004, produced first round QBs Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger ... and JP Losman.  Losman was not a first round prospect,  and being drafting in the first round with three other QBs who are likely HOF candidates didn't make him any better or worse than he was.

FYI, the last time I looked, finding good DBs is a lot easier than finding good QBs.  If Mahomes turns out to be a stud and Allen does not, the Bills will have screwed themselves once more ... just as they did in 2009 when they gave away All Pro LT Jason Peters or in 2010 when they gave away All Pro RB Marshawn Lynch.

 

 

If you don't like my opinions, don't read them or put me on ignore but don't dare tell me -- or any other poster -- to "shut up". 

 

FTR, the Bills do not have "one of the best secondaries in the league" but feel free to make up BS to justify your uncritical fandom for a team that's produced only 20 winning seasons in 58 years.

 

 

 

2 things

 

So you think you know which of these qbs is gonna bust?   Based on what?   Why is your resume not into a NFL team?

 

second

 

We DO in fact have one of the best secondaries in the league

[BurpleBull]

14 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Ah, McDermott? Still way too early to say that he isn't good at evaluating guys on the offense. As you point out, Dawkins so far at least seems like a great pickup, Peterman has been good so far for a fifth-rounder and Zay Jones hasn't done enough as a 2nd rounder, but it's way too early to count out a 2nd year WR.

 

Just doesn't make any sense at all to say that he can't evaluate offensive talent. The worst you could say is that he has spent few resources on the offense and that he would get an incomplete because it's too early to count out anyone yet. And Dawkins looks like a great pick.

 

 

The Bills have actually added pieces to the offense through free agency and the draft, (Kerley, McCloud, Proehl, Foster, Streater, etc.), I think the issue with most who feel not enough has been done on offense, is that they aren't big splash additions.

 

I feel the Bills FO is playing this out very patiently, allowing Daboll to get a real feel for what he has at his disposal before committing bigger bucks on offensive players.

 

 I think this upcoming season the Bills will try to draw out as much as possible from the offense given what they have to work with within Daboll's system, but that next year's draft will cater more towards the offense.

 

You can't blame McDermott for continuing to fortify the defense.

[3rdand12]

11 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

The Bills have actually added pieces to the offense through free agency and the draft, (Kerley, McCloud, Proehl, Foster, Streater, etc.), I think the issue with most who feel not enough has been done on offense, is that they aren't big splash additions.

 

I feel the Bills FO is playing this out very patiently, allowing Daboll to get a real feel for what he has at his disposal before committing bigger bucks on offensive players.

 

 I think this upcoming season the Bills will try to draw out as much as possible from the offense given what they have to work with within Daboll's system, but that next year's draft will cater more towards the offense.

 

You can't blame McDermott for continuing to fortify the defense.

sounds trite , but Rome was not built on a Sunday in the fall.
McBeanes via McDermott had a vision that Defense was the first priority as it was Sean's area of expertise i might guess. I think this seasons work solidified my opinion.
Even though they have made some efforts to bolster the Offense over two seasons , it remains incomplete. And that could be an understatement  : )
Long row to hoe building this team. I think the defense is formidable and will competitive at the top level with this years additions. albeit an never ending work in progress.
Offense is surely trailing.
I respect the decision for what it is.

 Good post Burple

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

The Bills have actually added pieces to the offense through free agency and the draft, (Kerley, McCloud, Proehl, Foster, Streater, etc.), I think the issue with most who feel not enough has been done on offense, is that they aren't big splash additions.

 

I feel the Bills FO is playing this out very patiently, allowing Daboll to get a real feel for what he has at his disposal before committing bigger bucks on offensive players.

 

 I think this upcoming season the Bills will try to draw out as much as possible from the offense given what they have to work with within Daboll's system, but that next year's draft will cater more towards the offense.

 

You can't blame McDermott for continuing to fortify the defense.

 

...just some OTAG "senior moment yap" but I'll try it anyway.....CERTAINLY McD's background is defense.....but why would Daboll accept the OC job if he knew the offense would play "second fiddle" personnel wise and focus wise as part of the overall 'winning plan"?.....where the hell are we going if the premise is the "D" will do all of the heavy lifting and perhaps the offense can kick the winning FG in a 10-7 "barn burner"?....no way in hell I'd take the OC job...

[Green Lightning]

7 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 

From what I could tell from minicamp, it seems the position is wide open just as is the case with most other positions that don't have a player's name etched in stone there. 

 

I think Ryan Groy began seeing more 1st team reps as camp went on; I think he will end up being favored to win the position just based off how liked he was by the sometimes hard- to-please Bills' fans when he was backing Wood, as well as his increase in 1st team reps.

Let's hope, but don't forget that Groy and Bodine are both in the mix for starting at Center and/or at left guard. So they both may end up starting.

[3rdand12]

7 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Let's hope, but don't forget that Groy and Bodine are both in the mix for starting at Center and/or at left guard. So they both may end up starting.

Then it would be Groy @ Guard and Bodine @ Center in my humble opinion based upon their individual experiences

[Alphadawg7]

On 7/2/2018 at 4:30 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Allen missed more games in college than Rosen.

 

Hence why injury isnt the reason we passed on Rosen...him being a deuche causing coach-ability and leadership questions is why SEVERAL teams passed on him.  Even the team that finally drafted him at 10 had their eye on Allen first.  

 

Time will tell who was right or wrong, but this injury narrative doesn't tell the accurate story of why he slid behind 3 other QBs and was never in consideration at #1 despite so many arm chair peeps here insisting he is the best QB in the class.  It factored in, and was from the season he didn't finish...but add in the character concerns, and it equates to teams looking at other prospects before him.  

[GunnerBill]

16 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

2 things

 

So you think you know which of these qbs is gonna bust?   Based on what?   Why is your resume not into a NFL team?

 

second

 

We DO in fact have one of the best secondaries in the league

 

Again... why does someone have to work for an NFL team to have a view on who busts? The NFL isn't batting 100 itself. 

 

Last season our secondary certainly was one of the best. I was one of the few excited when EJ Gaines was considered a "throw in" on the Sammy trade. I knew he could play and be a really good fit in this defense. I think his loss does leave a small question mark. Vontae at his best was a better player than Gaines, no doubt, but he was a man corner first and foremost and you have the injury questions as well. I am optimistic that he can come in and play at a similar level and I think the corner we drafted has more physical ability (though clearly not the experience and scheme knowledge) of Leonard Johnson in the slot. Of all the areas to be worried about on this team the secondary is last on the list. It was a top 5 unit last year and hopefully it can be again. 

[Zerovoltz]

20 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

The quality of individual players in any draft is not determined by either the other players in that draft or by the hype spread by media talking heads. 

• In the 1983 draft, the greatest QB class ever by result not by ratings of talking heads, produced 3 HOFs plus a decent NFL starter.  The KC Chiefs still managed to pick an absolute bust in Todd Blackledge, the second QB taken.
• In the second best QB class ever, 2004, produced first round QBs Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger ... and JP Losman.  Losman was not a first round prospect,  and being drafting in the first round with three other QBs who are likely HOF candidates didn't make him any better or worse than he was.

FYI, the last time I looked, finding good DBs is a lot easier than finding good QBs.  If Mahomes turns out to be a stud and Allen does not, the Bills will have screwed themselves once more ... just as they did in 2009 when they gave away All Pro LT Jason Peters or in 2010 when they gave away All Pro RB Marshawn Lynch.

 

 

If you don't like my opinions, don't read them or put me on ignore but don't dare tell me -- or any other poster -- to "shut up". 

 

FTR, the Bills do not have "one of the best secondaries in the league" but feel free to make up BS to justify your uncritical fandom for a team that's produced only 20 winning seasons in 58 years.

 

 

 

 

THIS.....is absolutely correct.  Think of the best DB of all time...you pick...Darrel Green, Ronnie Lott, Dieon Sanders......doesn't matter..pick that guy....then think of what QB you could expect to get in a trade for one of those guys.....Aaron Rodgers...no....how far down the list of QBs would you get before some team would say....yeah...Ok...we'll take your stud DB for our QB......you'd get pretty damn far down the list.....and you certainly couldn't get Mahomes for White.  or White and any combo of players and picks.  

 

 

[BurpleBull]

11 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...just some OTAG "senior moment yap" but I'll try it anyway.....CERTAINLY McD's background is defense.....but why would Daboll accept the OC job if he knew the offense would play "second fiddle" personnel wise and focus wise as part of the overall 'winning plan"?.....where the hell are we going if the premise is the "D" will do all of the heavy lifting and perhaps the offense can kick the winning FG in a 10-7 "barn burner"?....no way in hell I'd take the OC job...

I think McDermott wants to run a playclock-controlling styled offense, I believe it was his intention last season to control offense through the run, but still have the ability to make the big play and keep the clock moving with the pass, but under Rick Dennison, the pass part never came together and the run game caught on late.

 

Daboll got good production out of a program with a talented offense lacking a true QB and known more for its defense; Daboll's a younger offensive mind, likely more in tune with today's game, and perhaps more creative than Dennison.

 

Daboll hadn't had the opportunity to call plays since 2012, I think he would like to prove that he's grown as a coordinator since that time and showcase at the highest level that he brings more to the table, with the likes of Benjamin, Jones, Clay, and McCoy at his disposal than Dennison and others.

 

The offense may seem to be playing second fiddle to the defense, but perhaps the coaching staff feels that the pieces are already in place and a creative and competent offensive coordinator is what was needed most to put it all together, not bigger name acquisitions.

 

If the Bills offense can come close to the same production of the Alabama offense last season under Daboll, then I don't think we'll have to worry about the 10-7, barn-burners.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BurpleBull said:

If the Bills offense can come close to the same production of the Alabama offense last season under Daboll, then I don't think we'll have to worry about the 10-7, barn-burners.

 

This is true but the 'Bama offense has more talent than most of the defenses it is facing. That will not be true of this Bills offense. I think our O is going to be pretty brutal to watch this year but people need to be patient and not race to run Daboll out of town.  I am one of the very few who feels Dennison got a bit of a raw deal.  The problem with our offensive is players not play calling.  I expect that upgrades on that side of the ball will be a priority for the next offseason but until then we will be trying to hold teams to 17 or fewer and eek out 20 for the win.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

24 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

I think McDermott wants to run a playclock-controlling styled offense, I believe it was his intention last season to control offense through the run, but still have the ability to make the big play and keep the clock moving with the pass, but under Rick Dennison, the pass part never came together and the run game caught on late.

 

Daboll got good production out of a program with a talented offense lacking a true QB and known more for its defense; Daboll's a younger offensive mind, likely more in tune with today's game, and perhaps more creative than Dennison.

 

Daboll hadn't had the opportunity to call plays since 2012, I think he would like to prove that he's grown as a coordinator since that time and showcase at the highest level that he brings more to the table, with the likes of Benjamin, Jones, Clay, and McCoy at his disposal than Dennison and others.

 

The offense may seem to be playing second fiddle to the defense, but perhaps the coaching staff feels that the pieces are already in place and a creative and competent offensive coordinator is what was needed most to put it all together, not bigger name acquisitions.

 

If the Bills offense can come close to the same production of the Alabama offense last season under Daboll, then I don't think we'll have to worry about the 10-7, barn-burners.

 

.....great and fair assessment.....thanks bud.........

[Cripple Creek]

On 7/17/2018 at 11:13 AM, 3rdand12 said:

I feel Bills made an educated opinion to put themselves in position for QB.

 Manuel smelt of desperation and played out as such. I cheered him as well. But most of the world knew he was unlikely to succeed in Buffalo.

Bills could have picked higher or lower this past draft. Seems to me they were satisfied with the pick and how they got there.
Organized and planned. Tidy even. This is a different FO than the Nix Whaley show.

 And no, i do not know the power ball numbers, if i did i would not share them  LOL

The writing is in the snow. Allen is a bust. Jump on the trash train while there’s still room. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

[Dr. K]

On 7/18/2018 at 11:28 AM, BurpleBull said:

 

From what I could tell from minicamp, it seems the position is wide open just as is the case with most other positions that don't have a player's name etched in stone there. 

 

I think Ryan Groy began seeing more 1st team reps as camp went on; I think he will end up being favored to win the position just based off how liked he was by the sometimes hard- to-please Bills' fans when he was backing Wood, as well as his increase in 1st team reps.

I have a friend who is a huge Bengals fan and he says Bodine, for the number of starts he has had, is the worst center he has ever seen. 

[gjv001]

Beane’s and the Bills lucky stars were shinning bright when Allen was available at 7.

[BurpleBull]

4 hours ago, Dr. K said:

I have a friend who is a huge Bengals fan and he says Bodine, for the number of starts he has had, is the worst center he has ever seen. 

 

It's really hard for me to buy that he's as awful as he's made out to be. 

 

The guy played and started in every single game of his four seasons as a Bengal.  

 

When have you ever known a Bills player to be as bad as Bodine is said to be and kept around for four seasons, starting every single game?

 

Nobody Bills player comes to  my mind.

 

Remember Colin Brown?

 

Now that guy was horrible at LG at a time when the Bills were desperate for an upgrade and it didn't take long for the coaching staff to realize it.

 

Perhaps Bodine had naked pictures of the owner's wife and that could explain why he was kept around so long, being so bad.

[3rdand12]

11 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 A) I think McDermott wants to run a playclock-controlling styled offense, I believe it was his intention last season to control offense through the run, but still have the ability to make the big play and keep the clock moving with the pass, but under Rick Dennison, the pass part never came together and the run game caught on late.

 

B )Daboll got good production out of a program with a talented offense lacking a true QB and known more for its defense; Daboll's a younger offensive mind, likely more in tune with today's game, and perhaps more creative than Dennison.

 

C )Daboll hadn't had the opportunity to call plays since 2012, I think he would like to prove that he's grown as a coordinator since that time and showcase at the highest level that he brings more to the table, with the likes of Benjamin, Jones, Clay, and McCoy at his disposal than Dennison and others.

 

D )The offense may seem to be playing second fiddle to the defense, but perhaps the coaching staff feels that the pieces are already in place and a creative and competent offensive coordinator is what was needed most to put it all together, not bigger name acquisitions.

 

E ) If the Bills offense can come close to the same production of the Alabama offense last season under Daboll, then I don't think we'll have to worry about the 10-7, barn-burners.

some good points.

 A) yes and yes

 

B )Daboll and Saban

 and yes

 

C ) Absolutely !

 

 D )I think Daboll is part of the future state. This year might be part of an acclimation back into the NFL game.
Do not feel the pieces are in place yet. Just a starting point to develop and implement his system, and evaluate. 

 

E ) Thats a hopeful prediction refer to A )

F ) i expect an Offense that will find its groove after a couple games, but be limited by it's talent. and the QB's  (excepting Allen who will be sitting : )  may or may not be stop gap

that is no reason to hold back the rest of the Offensive development under Brian.

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is true but the 'Bama offense has more talent than most of the defenses it is facing. That will not be true of this Bills offense. I think our O is going to be pretty brutal to watch this year but people need to be patient and not race to run Daboll out of town.  I am one of the very few who feels Dennison got a bit of a raw deal.  The problem with our offensive is players not play calling.  I expect that upgrades on that side of the ball will be a priority for the next offseason but until then we will be trying to hold teams to 17 or fewer and eek out 20 for the win.  

this is a reasonable take.

 and please Folks  BE PATIENT.

if you need to drink more so be it. but no pitchforks after game two !!

10 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

The writing is in the snow. Allen is a bust. Jump on the trash train while there’s still room. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

well, then don't you eat that yellow snow.
 

I think the Train has already left the station. and i missed it gosh darnit !

5 hours ago, Dr. K said:

I have a friend who is a huge Bengals fan and he says Bodine, for the number of starts he has had, is the worst center he has ever seen. 

Its a concern for sure ☹️

16 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

It's really hard for me to buy that he's as awful as he's made out to be. 

 

The guy played and started in every single game of his four seasons as a Bengal.  

 

When have you ever known a Bills player to be as bad as Bodine is said to be and kept around for four seasons, starting every single game?

 

Nobody Bills player comes to  my mind.

 

Remember Colin Brown?

 

Now that guy was horrible at LG at a time when the Bills were desperate for an upgrade and it didn't take long for the coaching staff to realize it.

 

Perhaps Bodine had naked pictures of the owner's wife and that could explain why he was kept around so long, being so bad.

 Jordan Mills comes to mind. and he looks to be the starter yet again....

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

 

 Jordan Mills comes to mind. and he looks to be the starter yet again....

 

Mills is actually a good comparison. Bodine might be the Jordan Mills of NFL centers. Almost all the other starting players in the league at that position are better than him but almost all the guys sitting on benches as depth are worse than him. That is why Mills remains a starting right tackle. At center I like to think in Groy we might have one of the exceptions to the bench rule but we shall see. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

There's going to be a lot of QB's to compare Allen to. Mahomes, Watson, and Rosen are all guys that we could've picked instead of him. Watson was having the best rookie season ever until his injury. 

 

Something that gets glossed over a lot, but the Star Lotulelei contract is absolutely terrible. 

 

I think a lot of people on here are willing to overlook questionable GM decisions because Beane ended the drought. I'm willing to be patient, but there's a lot he could've done differently. Time will tell