nkreed Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Watch the dude's video. Come on Joe. You and I both will agree that the people who have jumped on board most likely don't know the difference.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 3, 2018 Author Posted July 3, 2018 1 minute ago, nkreed said: How is this a problem? Just because some people won some primaries? And "she represents the future of our party" Without further context of that statement we don't know if it was an age, a politics or a lack of money statement. The context is her platform. Which is socialist. Not liberal. Not Progressive. Avowed socialist. That's a problem for your argument that the party is centrist - the leadership is pushing the party well to the left. Majority of Americans, including democrats, are not socialist and realize socialism is INCOMPATIBLE with our constitution. #WalkAway isn't about saying all democrats are socialists. It's about democrats realizing their party has abandoned not only their centrist roots, but the country itself. It's a big loser in November. 1
Foxx Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 21 minutes ago, nkreed said: I read the initial article which continuously mixed left and Democratic party as if they were the exact same thing. Claiming that the party is one of hate and segregation is different than claiming the ideology is that way. The ideas that the initial article point to conflict at great length with the basis of progressivism or *gasp* socialism. The party on the other hand is still closer to center, so it is unsurprising that the ideals of a person who supports a platform left of center would not want to be a part of it. These are my observations. Hey we all view things differently. As to the other recent events, I don't have cable, not do I watch the American news. Will I take some of the journalism that has been put out there with a grain of salt, yes, yes I will. (We could possibly even say that if it's trumpeted on this forum, it comes from a conservative news source). In that part of this I am deficient, but my understanding is that #walkaway is about the party. I must state again, the party does NOT encapsulate all the views of the left. I find myself telling people this a lot. Just like the Republicans do not encapsulate all of the views of the right. the two parties are nothing more than two wings of the same bird of prey. it is the bird in the middle one must keep their eye on, for you are the prey. the two wings are only meant to keep the bird aloft. when is the last time they actually represented the will of their constituency? the bird of prey has a plan and you are mere chattel that affords their means to an end. the more they can divide you up into little fractions of the same divide, the better for them. they are quite aware that if there was a united populace they wouldn't stand a chance. isn't the Donald proof that it doesn't matter who wants what? the machine just keeps churning away. best not to get caught up in it, else you'll get chewed up and spit out. the best option is to just let them continue doing whatever they think they are doing and just create the kind of system we all want outside of their elitist idiom. one day the (m)asses will awake to understand what is really going on here. all the better to have something in place for them to turn to when that arises.
nkreed Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: The context is her platform. Which is socialist. Not liberal. Not Progressive. Avowed socialist. That's a problem for your argument that the party is centrist - the leadership is pushing the party well to the left. Majority of Americans, including democrats, are not socialist and realize socialism is INCOMPATIBLE with our constitution. #WalkAway isn't about saying all democrats are socialists. It's about democrats realizing their party has abandoned not only their centrist roots, but the country itself. It's a big loser in November. You know that Democratic socialism is different from socialism. But why not make the real arguement? Because it kills your point that it's not okay with our constitution. I fully disagree that the Democratic socialist agenda is a loser overall. Hell we employ a ton of the ideals already but will not acknowledge that we benefit from them. (Roads, Police, Schools, etc.). This is the same arguement that had been made in the past, and we certainly aren't going to fix it in a forum. 8 minutes ago, row_33 said: why bother paying attention to what the man actually said about the movement? they can't bother to give 90 seconds to learn anything The initial 7 tweets used to justify the movement in this thread all DIRECTLY point to the Democratic party, not liberalism. Just because the founder is saying that HE is leaving for a different reason does not translate down to the masses who are leaving the PARTY.
Taro T Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: The context is her platform. Which is socitalist. Not liberal. Not Progressive. Avowed socialist. That's a problem for your argument that the party is centrist - the leadership is pushing the party well to the left. Majority of Americans, including democrats, are not socialist and realize socialism is INCOMPATIBLE with our constitution. #WalkAway isn't about saying all democrats are socialists. It's about democrats realizing their party has abandoned not only their centrist roots, but the country itself. It's a big loser in November. And here's to hoping that it's a loser for the Democrats in November, because if it isn't, then we all lose. 1
nkreed Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, Foxx said: the two parties are nothing more than two wings of the same bird of prey. it is the bird in the middle one must keep their eye on, for you are the prey. the two wings are only meant to keep the bird aloft. when is the last time they actually represented the will of their constituency? the bird of prey has a plan and you are mere chattel that affords their means to an end. the more they can divide you up into little fractions of the same divide, the better for them. they are quite aware that if there was a united populace they wouldn't stand a chance. isn't the Donald proof that it doesn't matter who wants what? the machine just keeps churning away. best not to get caught up in it, else you'll get chewed up and spit out. the best option is to just let them continue doing whatever they think they are doing and just create the kind of system we all want outside of their elitist idiom. one day the (m)asses will awake to understand what is really going on here. all the better to have something in place for them to turn to when that arises. Foxx, this is the best representation of the political spectrum we live in. I understand that, but many do not. It's why I will talk about the ideologies and not which party I belong to.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 3, 2018 Author Posted July 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, nkreed said: You know that Democratic socialism is different from socialism. But why not make the real arguement? Because it kills your point that it's not okay with our constitution. They're not advocating for democratic socialism. They're advocating for socialism. 5 minutes ago, nkreed said: I fully disagree that the Democratic socialist agenda is a loser overall. Hell we employ a ton of the ideals already but will not acknowledge that we benefit from them. (Roads, Police, Schools, etc.). It's not democratic socialism. It's socialism. Bernie Sanders wasn't a democratic socialist, he ran on a socialist platform - and should have won the nomination if it wasn't tilted against him. NYC elected who they did because she was a socialist, and they rejected the centrist moderate by an astounding percentage (despite low turnout). 6 minutes ago, nkreed said: This is the same arguement that had been made in the past, and we certainly aren't going to fix it in a forum. It's not the same argument. It's different. This is a different strain of socialism and progressivism (which is really prog-fascism). You're not being honest about what's happening. Harris is going to be the DNC front runner for 2020 - and she's advocating for open borders, abolishing ICE, and Sanctuary states not just cities. That's not a centrist platform. That's not a democratic socialist platform. 6 minutes ago, Taro T said: And here's to hoping that it's a loser for the Democrats in November, because if it isn't, then we all lose. It's going to be a disaster for them in November. It already is.
GG Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 14 minutes ago, nkreed said: You know that Democratic socialism is different from socialism. But why not make the real arguement? Because it kills your point that it's not okay with our constitution. I fully disagree that the Democratic socialist agenda is a loser overall. Hell we employ a ton of the ideals already but will not acknowledge that we benefit from them. (Roads, Police, Schools, etc.). This is the same arguement that had been made in the past, and we certainly aren't going to fix it in a forum. The initial 7 tweets used to justify the movement in this thread all DIRECTLY point to the Democratic party, not liberalism. Just because the founder is saying that HE is leaving for a different reason does not translate down to the masses who are leaving the PARTY. Utter horsecrap. There's no distinction between socialism and democratic socialism. The only practical difference would be that the next elected parties would decide on how to pilfer private resources. Socialism is evil, pure and simple, because it stifles humanity under a false pretense of equality. 3
Deranged Rhino Posted July 3, 2018 Author Posted July 3, 2018 1 minute ago, GG said: Utter horsecrap. There's no distinction between socialism and democratic socialism. The only practical difference would be that the next elected parties would decide on how to pilfer private resources. Socialism is evil, pure and simple, because it stifles humanity under a false pretense of equality. "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." Alexis de Tocqueville
nkreed Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, GG said: Utter horsecrap. There's no distinction between socialism and democratic socialism. The only practical difference would be that the next elected parties would decide on how to pilfer private resources. Socialism is evil, pure and simple, because it stifles humanity under a false pretense of equality. The same can be said of capitalism too, pure and evil. Only those who have money win. That's why we need to meet in the middle, and Democratic socialism, as you say doesn't exist, is socialism's differ of moving to the middle.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 3, 2018 Author Posted July 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, nkreed said: The same can be said of capitalism too, pure and evil. Only those who have money win. That's why we need to meet in the middle, and Democratic socialism, as you say doesn't exist, is socialism's differ of moving to the middle. It's a mirage. A dream. Not reality. As we have seen play out in real time for the past 50 years. 1
keepthefaith Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 55 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Of course it doesn't encapsulate all views on the left... just those of the party's leadership: ...Which is the problem. Maybe not the problem. You can buy a lot of votes with the promise of free stuff and outside of free stuff, what have they got right now? 1
GG Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, nkreed said: The same can be said of capitalism too, pure and evil. Only those who have money win. That's why we need to meet in the middle, and Democratic socialism, as you say doesn't exist, is socialism's differ of moving to the middle. That's a very uninformed take of the differences between capitalism and socialism. If you truly believe that, please point to where living standards are better in a socialist society than they are in a capitalist society 3
Foxx Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 1 minute ago, keepthefaith said: Maybe not the problem. You can buy a lot of votes with the promise of free stuff and outside of free stuff, what have they got right now? well, they have been wanting to take my stuff to give to those with no stuff for a long time now, does that count?
keepthefaith Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, nkreed said: The same can be said of capitalism too, pure and evil. Only those who have money win. That's why we need to meet in the middle, and Democratic socialism, as you say doesn't exist, is socialism's differ of moving to the middle. We are set set up as a higher risk higher reward society. It's deliberately so. It's not those with money that necessarily win, it's those that make the effort to win who end up with money. You could take all the country's money and divide it evenly among all citizens and in a couple years the same people who were rich before will be rich again and the poor will again be poor. Happiness is not guaranteed, only the pursuit of such and unfortunately the majority of Americans don't make the most of their opportunity through no fault of others or fault of the government. Edited July 3, 2018 by keepthefaith 3
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 13 minutes ago, nkreed said: The same can be said of capitalism too, pure and evil. Only those who have money win. That's why we need to meet in the middle, and Democratic socialism, as you say doesn't exist, is socialism's differ of moving to the middle. No, capitalism isn't "evil". Capitalism is, quite literally, the philosophy of human freedom taken from the abstract, and put into action. It is predicated on the notion of individuals entering into voluntary exchanges with one another; forced by law to provide goods and services for others in order to sustain one's self, prevented by law from seizing the assets of others or having others seize their assets, without completely voluntary contractual agreement; all predicated on the notions of absolute self-ownership and the protection of property rights. 1 1
Foxx Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) hmmm..... #hash #rehash Edited July 3, 2018 by Foxx 4
B-Man Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 Instapundit.com @instapundit Socialism is the Axe Body Spray of political ideologies: It never does what it claims to do, but people too young to know better keep buying it anyway. Thomas Sowell @ThomasSowell "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." 9:49 AM - Jul 3, 2018 1 8
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