Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Does a Murdoch owned property report fake news as well? Short answer: yes. There are ZERO reliable sources for news within the mainstream media of any kind. That includes Fox. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: Short answer: yes. There are ZERO reliable sources for news within the mainstream media of any kind. That includes Fox. The Conservative Treehouse - realest news in town 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 28 minutes ago, joesixpack said: As far as allies: Europeans especially have been getting fat off us in multiple ways. Firstly, they haven't lived up to their agreements under the NATO treaty re: military spending. Trump's working to rectify that. Secondly, they've been imposing EU-wide tariffs on American imports pretty much since the EU was created. Trump's working to level that playing field. Thirdly, they've been dictating our foreign policy to our weak and feckless previous presidents, ESPECIALLY Obama with his utterly ridiculous JCPOA which did nothing, absolutely nothing to stop Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons while sending them literal pallets of cash for the privilege. Trump's already rectified that mess. Also, he's worked for closer ties with the only true democracy in the middle east, Israel and has worked to rehabilitate relations with Saudi Arabia. As far as enemies go, he's repealed the JCPOA, defeated ISIS, brought Best Korea to the table and applied even tougher sanctions on Russia DESPITE accusations of being their puppet. Then there's the domestic enemies he's battling in the intelligence community and the mainstream left and right. See Joe, I agree on the NATO spending..as do most rational people. But to start a trade war and infuriate our allies I just do not see as a solution. We are soon to be the "enemy of our enemy" for all nations... I just don't see the long game here. And much like in Rhinos post, i enjoy your perspectives and understand there can be a difference of opinion, but when we get to deep state stuff and the "domestic enemies" in the intelligence communities and all that stuff, people like me just lose respect for the argument. 5 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Short answer: yes. There are ZERO reliable sources for news within the mainstream media of any kind. That includes Fox. see, this just loses me...so only "true" news comes from fringe sites? There is no honest reporting in all the land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 11 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: See Joe, I agree on the NATO spending..as do most rational people. But to start a trade war and infuriate our allies I just do not see as a solution. We are soon to be the "enemy of our enemy" for all nations... I just don't see the long game here. And much like in Rhinos post, i enjoy your perspectives and understand there can be a difference of opinion, but when we get to deep state stuff and the "domestic enemies" in the intelligence communities and all that stuff, people like me just lose respect for the argument. see, this just loses me...so only "true" news comes from fringe sites? There is no honest reporting in all the land? These people are insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: see, this just loses me...so only "true" news comes from fringe sites? There is no honest reporting in all the land? Be honest with yourself: Is CNN an honest broker of information? How about MSNBC? Fox? The Washington Post is CLEARLY an outlet for the intelligence community. That's pretty much "settled science" to steal a phrase from the enviro-freaks. Edited July 2, 2018 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: Be honest with yourself: Is CNN an honest broker of information? did not say that.. I thnk sometimes CNN hits stuff right on the head when they report News...not talking head garbage. Same with Fox..when they are delivering the News... I think it is closer to "fair and balanced" ..again not the crap Fox and Friends or other talking heads Hannity, Lemon. Scarborough, Carlson...all junk and all one sided opinion guys... In terms of print, yes the Post and Times certainly lean one way...the Journal another...and i think it pretty easy to spot when "opinion" is being mixed in the "news" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said: In terms of print, yes the Post and Times certainly lean one way...the Journal another...and i think it pretty easy to spot when "opinion" is being mixed in the "news" it's gotten to the point where "news" is "opinion" and "opinion" is "news." When that situation occurs, it's not news. It's propaganda. So yeah, I tend to accumulate information from sites and sources not affiliated with any corporate owned media since I can't trust anything that a part of the corporate media/propaganda machine peddles as information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: to address your first paragraph.. I liked this take fro Pro Isreal think take Washinton Institute http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/the-next-mideast-explosion I do agree that ISIS has certainly been beaten back, a process starter under Obama and continued under Trump. Having said that, i think, as always, that region is still a quagmire for the US, no worse, or better, under Trump. That article (unsurprisingly based on the authors) leaves out several major events: 1) Iran's influence is on the retreat in the region, not on the increase. This is because Hezbollah has been gutted from the inside out, starting last November with the KSA purge and followed on by GCC attacks on multiple fronts for well over 12 months now. Small fire teams, combined with air and sea assets as well as US communication support has done more to prevent Iran's growth than anything 44 did in 8 years. In fact, 44's policies emboldened and strengthened both Hezbollah and Iran in the region. 2) The Israeli / Iranian war has been going on for months now. And Iran is losing. Badly. Their regime is on the brink of overthrow - "peaceful" overthrow - because of the above and the sanctions put into place by this administration. 3) IF the Mullahs fall this year, and it's looking more and more likely, that's lights out for Hezbollah. That's peace in Syria. Peace in Yemen. Almost overnight. And if those happen, then that paves the way for HONEST talks between Palestine and Israel without Hezbollah, Hamas, or Iran meddling. Peace in the ME is more possible today, because of the actions of this administration in reversing course on Iran from 44, than it ever has been in either of our lifetimes. So with respect (and I mean that, I like your posts), this is a shortsighted view of the situation. ISIS was not being defeated under 44 because he was helping arm, fund, and train elements of ISIS for his war in Syria. Iran was strengthened by 44's deals, and his looking the other way as Hezbollah increased its power and financial base inside the United States. Iran has killed more US and allied forces in the region than any other element since 2003 - that tide did not start to get reversed until 45 came into office. 42 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: In terms of the "fake News" what am I missing? I saw the 38north story over the weekend..not saying this facetiously but what is fake about it? I mean when the WSJ is reporting on it, is that fake news? Does a Murdoch owned property report fake news as well? https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-korea-expands-key-missile-manufacturing-plant-1530486907 YES Murdoch reports fake news. It's not a monolithic system by any means. Every source of the story is "unnamed IC sources" parroting suppositions drawn from a civilian article with no other supporting documentation or evidence. How many times over the past 16+ months have we seen "unnamed" sources in these very outlets - the WSJ, ABC, NBC, NYT et al - ultimately be proven wrong? The average is close to a thousand. 42 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: In terms of your paragraph on allies.. I just do not follow. Load me up some non"deep state" stuff..and lets even say what you post is correct...that is worth the destruction of the American economy? As I've been covering for over two years now, you cannot understand current events without first understanding and acknowledging that there was a very real and very serious palace coup attempt, headed by John Brennan and 44's administration. This isn't "deep state conspiracy theory", it's backed by evidence, testimony, and personnel turnover across agencies and countries. What happened, in the simplest form: 1) 44 had an illegal political spying apparatus in place for his entire 8 years (Bush had it for his 8 years prior). This was operation was based in the FBI's Counter-intelligence Division (CID) and the DOJ's National Security Divisions (NSD). Both divisions had access to raw NSA 702 data, meaning every call, communication, text, IM, sent by every American going back to the late 90s. This allowed select people within these departments, including government contractors not government employees, to access these databases without warrants or oversight. 2) In March of 2016, the NSA IG and NSA head Admiral Mike Rogers discovered an alarming rise in "702 about quarries" within these departments. "About quarries" are searches of these NSA databases which require warrants - yet both the FBI-CID and DOJ-NSD were requesting these quarries without going through the proper channels. This resulted in the NSA doing an audit of these systems. The results of which were compiled by the FISC and published (and declassified) in 2017: https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf 3) The findings above laid out how 85% of the CID and NSD quarries from November 2015 through March 2016 were illegal and done (largely) by outside government contractors. The names of these contractors were redacted in the report (page 83/84), but there's plenty of evidence to suggest two of these contractors were Fusion GPS and CrowdStrike. * Remember what this information is, it's the private electronic communications of every American. Imagine the power that information could provide to political research firms, political blackmail purposes, and election rigging. It's massively powerful... and yet the FBI and DOJ were routinely letting contractors peruse the data without oversight or a warrant. That's OUTRAGEOUS and highly illegal. 4) The Obama administration had every campaign under surveillance. Abusing this loophole in the system to gather intelligence on the opposition and to position Hillary to win, thus securing 44's legacy. This is how Bernie was cheated out of the primary (and pressured not to contest). This spying operation was of critical import to their plans. 4) On April 18th, 2016, Mike Rogers shut down the FBI-CID and DOJ-NSD's access to the 702 data and ordered the divisions to explain the prior 702 quarries. This meant these people had to explain WHY they were abusing this system. Which means explaining WHY they were spying on political opposition. ENTER OUR ALLIES... With the illegal surveillance spigot turned off by NSA right before the main event of 2016, Brennan, Obama, and Hillary needed a way to turn back on that spying spigot AND probable cause to explain their prior abuses. That's what birthed the "Russian Collusion" narrative which - not surprisingly - started in earnest in late April of '16 - immediately after Rogers made his move. The first move was to turn back on the surveillance, that meant going to the UK. Just to recap: 5-Eye nations share intelligence collection with their allies. In the past, they've helped one another work around their own laws and constitutions to illegally spy on their citizens. Robert Hannigan, head of UK SIGINT collection, was the primary source for this phase. See, all Obama needed to do was ask the UK to help them spy on Trump, then no warrant would be needed and their surveillance could continue. Hannigan made this happen. But that was only one part of the problem. The other part was explaining WHY they needed the previous, illegal, surveillance. That too required the help of UK intelligence. Enter Richard Dearlove, Christopher Steele, Hacklyut, and the "dossier". Plants were put into the campaign, spies were used to build the narrative and feed the press on both sides of the pond. This was a major counter-intelligence operation engaged in by both the UK and US who knowingly were working together to cover up their own abuses and rig an election. When that didn't work, the partnership continued into a literal palace coup as the dossier, and the UK Intelligence assets in concert with New Zealand, Australian, German, and French intelligence services worked with 44 to force the Russia issue and circulate and launder the intelligence product they had worked to concoct (the dossier). The intent was never to protect this country from Russian meddling. It was to undercut the incoming POTUS who threatened the agenda of the powers that were. Nothing more. Everyone's so upset about Russia meddling in our election - here we have MULTIPLE foreign intelligence agencies working with an outgoing POTUS to overthrow a legally elected incoming administration. That's nothing less than an act of war. That's the British, Germans, and French saying we - you and me - don't get a say in our own elections. Do you think that's worth fighting back? I sure do. (more summary) Sources: 1. https://www.ignet.gov/sites/default/files/files/OLC IG Act Opinion - 7-20-15 .pdf 2. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/NSA_IG_Report_1_7_16_ST-15-0002.pdf 3. https://cryptome.org/2017/09/nsa-oig-fisa-702-jan-2016.pdf 4. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf 5. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/23/gchq-chief-robert-hannigan-quits Other Sources: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/01/05/operation-condor-how-nsa-director-mike-rogers-saved-the-u-s-from-a-massive-constitutional-crisis/ https://themarketswork.com/2018/01/10/an-american-hero-the-death-of-a-fisa-narrative/ https://themarketswork.com/2018/01/15/the-uncovering-section-702-about-queries-independent-contractors-a-new-narrative/ Edited July 2, 2018 by Deranged Rhino 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 I think it might be time to send ^^^^this one^^^^ to the nut house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 I appreciate the replay, gonna take me a while to delve through all that info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just now, plenzmd1 said: I appreciate the replay, gonna take me a while to delve through all that info! No worries. I know it's a ton. It's the summation of the biggest political scandal in US history (imo). Be sure to read the sources (when you have time), especially the filings. That way you don't have to take my word for it. I provide the links so you can make your own mind up after reading the evidence first hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 49 minutes ago, peace out said: I think it might be time to send ^^^^this one^^^^ to the nut house. "There are none so blind as those who will not see." Considering the seriousness here, why wouldn't you take the time to read what DR has posted along with the reference material? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 1 hour ago, peace out said: I think it might be time to send ^^^^this one^^^^ to the nut house. No one cares what you think... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said: 1. https://www.ignet.gov/sites/default/files/files/OLC IG Act Opinion - 7-20-15 .pdf 2. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/NSA_IG_Report_1_7_16_ST-15-0002.pdf 3. https://cryptome.org/2017/09/nsa-oig-fisa-702-jan-2016.pdf 4. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf 5. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/23/gchq-chief-robert-hannigan-quits Other Sources: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/01/05/operation-condor-how-nsa-director-mike-rogers-saved-the-u-s-from-a-massive-constitutional-crisis/ https://themarketswork.com/2018/01/10/an-american-hero-the-death-of-a-fisa-narrative/ https://themarketswork.com/2018/01/15/the-uncovering-section-702-about-queries-independent-contractors-a-new-narrative/ You should get paid for this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just now, Doc Brown said: You should get paid for this. If it helps better inform just a few people, even if they ultimately disagree with my conclusions, then that's all I need. But the thought is appreciated. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: You should get paid for this. You mean in Rubles, of course. Oh, and Endless Summer? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 1 hour ago, DC Tom said: No one cares what you think... You're an idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 2 hours ago, DC Tom said: No one cares what you think... 1 hour ago, peace out said: You're an idiot Your corbomite maneuver is easily repelled by a double dumbass on you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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