Bills attended Sam Beals pro Day

[The Dean]

19 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Exactly.  This is the only really interesting bit in this article.

 

How low does someone's IQ have to be to achieve academic ineligibility at "Western Michigan University"?

 

Interesting question. I have another: How low does someone's IQ have to be to assume being academically ineligible anywhere can only be due to low IQ?

 

8 hours ago, MJS said:

 

They'll get paid next to nothing compared to getting drafted? And they'll be more expendable too.

 

I think in some instances, a player would rather be an UDFA than a 7th round pick. Many of these UDFA guys already have established relationships with NFL teams (through coaches and other contacts). I think for some, having the option to go to a team where they know they'd be valued---and fit the system, have a chance to make the team, etc--is better than getting drafted to some random team.

 

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Under some situations, not very low. If you're studying and holding down a fulltime job and bringing up a kid, maybe it's reasonable.

 

But these players generally have tutoring, guidance in which courses to pick, someone calling to get 'em out of bed in the morning ... they're (not always, there are exceptions, but generally) pretty well supported by a staff that's used to handholding guys with limited academic skills though the system. See that show called Last Chance U. on Netflix about a JUCO for guys who've had problems? Fascinating.

 

Some academic ineligibility comes from not being able to make it to class in the morning consistently. On the other hand, some comes from stuff like dyslexia. It's a spectrum.

 

I wonder where on the spectrum this guy's problems fall?

 

The coach's recommendation looked very convincing to me, though.

Generally, the bad thing about supplemental draft guy is that something has caused them to be swept out of the system. That's not generally a good thing. It has to be factored in. Look at Josh Gordon. Spectacular talent. Pretty much of a train wreck personally.

 

The good thing if a guy can live up to his potential is that you're arbitraging the pick a bit. There's a reason that in the draft value pick charts in the 2018 draft, a 2018 2nd rounder is worth a 2019 1st. Next year's pick is worth less to many to most teams that are desperate, because they don't like to give away a pick now and not get a guy till the next year. This is the opposite. You're getting a guy this year and not having to give up the pick until next year's draft. It can represent a bargain.

 

But really it comes down to the guy.

 

 

Great post. And I think there are even more reasons someone might not make it academically.  I mean I know some people who are very good people, and bright and gifted in certain areas---but they just hate school. 

 

In this particular case, I think having a guy like Beals available in the supplemental draft, gives teams a bit more time to focus on really vetting the player properly. Certainly high draft picks get thoroughly vetted, but as the rounds go up, the vetting naturally goes down, a bit. As I've stated many times here, I think Wonderlic scores are nearly entirely stupid, and useless. But I know they get used more for players taken later in the draft. They supply another piece to a puzzle that doesn't have many pieces. And in Beal's case, I imagine they might be low---which could have hurt him a bit in the draft (for some teams).  Now that the teams one (or a very few) player to thoroughly vet, they can really try to get to the bottom of what went on with Beals at WMU.

 

I've read nothing to suggest he has a character issue (unless you think academic ineligibility is necessarily a character issue) but I'd still want to know a couple things: 

1. What was behind the ineligibility? (Skipping class, learning disability, didn't give a damn, etc).

2. Why did he find out so late about the ineligibility? (Screw up in the system? Is Beal a big delusional--can't see the facts in front of his face? Lied to by Admin?)

 

Of course there are many more things I'd want to know about his football intelligence, work ethic, personality, etc. But if the Bills decide he passes their test, I'd be very happy with using a 4th (or even 3rd, if they are really convinced).

[K-9]

If the scouting grades reported are true, that he would have been a second rounder this year or is a projected 1st round grade next year, then we will have to spend a second to get him. But I don't believe those grades at all as little time would have been invested in his evaluation by scouts that actually do it for a living. Are scouts aware of him as a prospect? Certainly. But the more focused scouting would have commenced in August of this year as the college season began to ramp up. The much more intensive and scrutinizing wouldn't have begun until next January, after the college season concluded. A third is as high as I would go, but I have to believe other teams in higher drafting position feel the same way. 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

I wonder how Spiro Dedes would pronounce his name?   Beeuuhhiillllllllllllz?

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, The Dean said:

 

Interesting question. I have another: How low does someone's IQ have to be to assume being academically ineligible anywhere can only be due to low IQ?

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't think anyone with struggle with my question, but here goes:

 

You are easily aware that these Div 1 schools have, for generations, put in place mechanisms in order to virtually guarantee nealy all athletes will be perpetually eligible.

 

Too lazy to go to class?  Don't have to--no show classes are common for these athletes.  The ones they may be required to attend are either esoteric electives or remedial classes where their tutors or others will complete assignments for them.

 

Don't give a damn?  That's not grounds for academic ineligibility.  In fact it should be assumed that the majority of football players feel the way former Buffalo Bill Cardale Jones did when he so eloquently (although somewhat obviously) said:  "why should we have to go to class when we came here to play football? We're here to play FOOTBALL.  We ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS"

 

So, many of them "hate school", yet they still find "a way" to remain eligible.....except this kid.

 

So, really, my question is so obvious, it asks itself...

[Cripple Creek]

32 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I wonder how Spiro Dedes would pronounce his name?   Beeuuhhiillllllllllllz?

You’re thinking of Solly Wilcotts I think.

[TigerJ]

On 7/1/2018 at 1:41 PM, Tsaikotic said:

I read all 32 teams went to his pro-day...he could cost a 2

This.  There is more interest in Beals than there has been in a supplemental draft prospect in several years.  The Bills could take a chance and not use a second for him, but they might walk away empty handed.

Edited July 2, 2018 by TigerJ

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, TigerJ said:

This.  There is more interest in Beals than there has been in a supplemental draft prospect in several years.  The Bills could take a chance and not use a second for him, but they might walk away empty handed.

 

 

...should be interesting....McBeane covets his draft capital....BUT....with $85+ mil in the FA cookie jar, don't know what he'll do......

[3rdand12]

13 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...should be interesting....McBeane covets his draft capital....BUT....with $85+ mil in the FA cookie jar, don't know what he'll do......

I would doubt anyone will give up a second rd for this kid. A 3rd is pushing it. and he is likely not going to produce much this year, just guessing. But missing this much time with Bills already ??

 I consider fourth round where you can take those risks and hope to at least get a backup or Teams player.

 But who are the backups to play outside if Davis or White go down for any length of time ? That's an issue worth mentioning in this discussion

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

I would doubt anyone will give up a second rd for this kid. A 3rd is pushing it. and he is likely not going to produce much this year, just guessing. But missing this much time with Bills already ??

 I consider fourth round where you can take those risks and hope to at least get a backup or Teams player.

 But who are the backups to play outside if Davis or White go down for any length of time ? That's an issue worth mentioning in this discussion

 

...as usual, I trust your "savvy and spot on" assessments and agree with McBeane reluctantly surrendering a 4th at best.....

[3rdand12]

9 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...as usual, I trust your "savvy and spot on" assessments and agree with McBeane reluctantly surrendering a 4th at best.....

Just an Old Coot with a two cent opinion Old Time.
 Beane has surprised me before though.
 Suppose we have to trust Bills are and have been doing their homework on these Kids. Finding gems is rare quality. If Beanes scouts start hitting on them with any frequency ?
  Was a fun draft ! But i feel they have some more spots they wish to fill and or improve upon.

 Thanks OldTime : )

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Just an Old Coot with a two cent opinion Old Time.
 Beane has surprised me before though.
 Suppose we have to trust Bills are and have been doing their homework on these Kids. Finding gems is rare quality. If Beanes scouts start hitting on them with any frequency ?
  Was a fun draft ! But i feel they have some more spots they wish to fill and or improve upon.

 Thanks OldTime : )

 

...I was ALWAYS taught to "respect my elders"..........sorry couldn't resist.....just a damn good poster IMO......

[3rdand12]

15 hours ago, ALF said:

 

 

I wonder how good is he at zone cover. 

fair thought ALF.

does anyone recall how many times White played man press with little or no help ? Gaines seemed on and off the field with health, so i imagine Frazier coverage packages had to take that into account.

5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...I was ALWAYS taught to "respect my elders"..........sorry couldn't resist.....just a damn good poster IMO......

Nice try Pops !    Thats My line !

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

fair thought ALF.

does anyone recall how many times White played man press with little or no help ? Gaines seemed on and off the field with health, so i imagine Frazier coverage packages had to take that into account.

Nice try Pops !    Thats My line !

 

...share and share alike........damn you're good......try and dispel THAT.......

[3rdand12]

13 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...share and share alike........damn you're good......try and dispel THAT.......

welp

 i am gonna have to report ya. 
spot of the foul. repeat down   3rdand12

Edited July 2, 2018 by 3rdand12

[FrankoElTanko]

I would absolutely move on him with the extra fourth... He is 6'1 and gives us the extra rangy secondary member we need. In addition to adding a potential 1rd talent we take a low risk flyer. However, a third seems high...

 

[The Dean]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I didn't think anyone with struggle with my question, but here goes:

 

You are easily aware that these Div 1 schools have, for generations, put in place mechanisms in order to virtually guarantee nealy all athletes will be perpetually eligible.

 

Too lazy to go to class?  Don't have to--no show classes are common for these athletes.  The ones they may be required to attend are either esoteric electives or remedial classes where their tutors or others will complete assignments for them.

 

Don't give a damn?  That's not grounds for academic ineligibility.  In fact it should be assumed that the majority of football players feel the way former Buffalo Bill Cardale Jones did when he so eloquently (although somewhat obviously) said:  "why should we have to go to class when we came here to play football? We're here to play FOOTBALL.  We ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS"

 

So, many of them "hate school", yet they still find "a way" to remain eligible.....except this kid.

 

So, really, my question is so obvious, it asks itself...

 

 

Well, the way you answered the question makes your assumption (ineligible because of low IQ) even LESS of a probability. If, as you say, these DI players have tutors to complete all their assignments, and take no-show classes, having a low IQ wouldn't be an issue.

 

Seriously, if you are going to be a total troll, all the time, get a bit smarter.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Well, the way you answered the question makes your assumption (ineligible because of low IQ) even LESS of a probability. If, as you say, these DI players have tutors to complete all their assignments, and take no-show classes, having a low IQ wouldn't be an issue.

 

Seriously, if you are going to be a total troll, all the time, get a bit smarter.

 

 

Again, the obvious answer is that he wasn't even smart enough to avail himself of all the easy outs his university afforded him.

 

Disingenuity really can't be mistaken for cleverness or "smarts"), by the way.   

[4merper4mer]

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Again, the obvious answer is that he wasn't even smart enough to avail himself of all the easy outs his university afforded him.

 

Disingenuity really can't be mistaken for cleverness or "smarts"), by the way.   

Now I want your Pats to take him just to see how you spin it.

[The Dean]

10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Again, the obvious answer is that he wasn't even smart enough to avail himself of all the easy outs his university afforded him.

 

Disingenuity really can't be mistaken for cleverness or "smarts"), by the way.   

 

Your argument gets sillier and sillier. The truth is I have no idea what Beals IQ is, and neither do you. Taking very few facts and mixing it in a bit about what you think you know about D1 programs (and apparently about EVERY D1 program and player), and jumping to a pre-established conclusion is a sign of delusion, not intelligence. And it certainly isn't sound logic.

 

I have a friend with two PHDs and is one of the smartest guys I know (plus a pretty good jazz sax player).  He once (1970's) flunked out of the New School in NYC---basically a school without grades, I believe.  I can guarantee you, his IQ was not an issue. Every school has tutors available and anyone can get someone else to do their work. They doesn't take much of an IQ---it might take common sense, and a willingness to do it. But measuring that isn't the strength of the IQ tests. Plus since when did D1 universities give their star athletes a CHOICE in whether they have a tutor? Is that how you think it works?

 

In the mid 80's I was teaching many classes at UB and was a visiting assistant professor at Canisius. One of my Canisius classes was known to be a very easy A (due to the prof I was filling in for). I told the students up-front, I was not that professor, and I didn't just give out As and Bs. I had several athletes in that class . Their coach would call me once every week, or two, to check on their progress. I told him the same thing all the time. "I don't know who that is, because he has never been to class." or "Yes he comes to class, on occasion, but sleeps in the back of the class (or simply doesn't participate)." Same thing, every call. No changes. I gave a TAKE HOME final. Got five exact copies of the same F paper---even the same spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, etc.--but in different handwriting. I failed them all. At the end of the year the dean (not me) called me in to see if I would change their grades. I showed him the damning evidence and refused to change the grades. (I have no idea if the dean overturned my grades, but I was done there, anyway.) I can tell you this. Not one of those athletes failed due to their IQ.

 

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Now I want your Pats to take him just to see how you spin it.

 

No doubt he'll be falling all over himself to slobber on Belicheat's knob.  That's just the way of the troll. Especially one as self-important, and as Ms. WEO.