RochesterRob Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mark80 said: Alcohol consumption is technically banned in all public places I believe without a permit. Cost is significantly cheaper where it is legalized. An ounce of pretty good stuff runs around $300/320 here. An ounce of the BEST stuff in a legal shop state is less than $250 typically. Black market being cheaper still. There are more and more places that require a permit for alcohol but I don't know that it is a 100 percent across the board requirement. There will be rules imposed on pot when made legal recreationally in NY so it will not be as simple as being legal to possess. As you said black market is undercutting legal sellers in states where rec pot is legal and I expect the same to be true when legal in NY. NY has a huge appetite for sales tax money and the same will be true with rec pot when it happens so that will leave ample room for the black market to compete. Most people truth be told don't have to do business with a dangerous person to buy pot so when they get tired of paying 20 plus percent more at Walgreens and the guys miss the women in the skimpy outfits they will look up their old supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: There are more and more places that require a permit for alcohol but I don't know that it is a 100 percent across the board requirement. There will be rules imposed on pot when made legal recreationally in NY so it will not be as simple as being legal to possess. As you said black market is undercutting legal sellers in states where rec pot is legal and I expect the same to be true when legal in NY. NY has a huge appetite for sales tax money and the same will be true with rec pot when it happens so that will leave ample room for the black market to compete. Most people truth be told don't have to do business with a dangerous person to buy pot so when they get tired of paying 20 plus percent more at Walgreens and the guys miss the women in the skimpy outfits they will look up their old supplier. I don't know about that. How many people are buying illegally made/sold alcohol over buying it from the liquor store? Not many I would presume. I think most people would much rather pay an additional amount to stay legal or make their own. I know I will. Edited June 27, 2018 by Mark80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mark80 said: I don't know about that. How many people are buying illegally made/sold alcohol over buying it from the liquor store? Not many I would presume. I think most people would much rather pay an additional amount to stay legal. I know I will. About a decade ago there was a story on 60 minutes about the revival of "moonshine" where underground suppliers were supplying legit bars and the quality was much higher than what was seen during the 1920's prohibition period. Unless a person was running an underground club which does happen they probably buy enough legit liquor to keep any authorities clueless as to what they are doing. You might be willing to pay more to stay legal but that does not mean others will especially those scraping to get by financially. Lot's of municipalities in WNY where a sizable percentage of the local population receives public assistance of some sort so saving 10, 20, 30 or more bucks per week cash would be a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, Mark80 said: I don't know about that. How many people are buying illegally made/sold alcohol over buying it from the liquor store? Not many I would presume. I think most people would much rather pay an additional amount to stay legal or make their own. I know I will. i would pay more than that too. for me, it would be about how it's consumed. the pens that use the oil are absolutely fantastic, but really not available at all, or at least to me. i would just like the options that are available to other states, as well as not having to feel like a criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 31 minutes ago, Mark80 said: Take out the hubris my making it 100% legal. Done. Take a lot of the money (not all of course) out of the criminal aspect of it and tax it, using those taxes for education on it and/or treatment/policing of the real narcotics with real consequences. You can also save significant dollars in trying to police it, in paying for incarcerating people, and the long term impact of those people trying to rejoin society after they are released when they can't find a job because they were in prison for a weed related charge and now have to turn to crime to survive. To me, that raises the bar of the society as a whole. Most studies suggest that usage is actually not significantly increasing in legalized states and the parts where it is, it is in the people that may just use a handful of times a year, so there is really no effect on them at all. People who use are gonna use, for the most part, whether its legal or not. While it does happen in pockets I question that a pot related conviction gets you barred from any employment even good wage jobs. BIL works construction and maintenance type jobs and is pretty open about his pot usage. He makes pretty good money most years and does not have the headaches of being a business owner like I do. Some people maintain that a number of professionals who work in partnerships or just work for a firm use pot and they are not being walked to the door due to pot. Some people can't find work due to character issues plain and simple.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: About a decade ago there was a story on 60 minutes about the revival of "moonshine" where underground suppliers were supplying legit bars and the quality was much higher than what was seen during the 1920's prohibition period. Unless a person was running an underground club which does happen they probably buy enough legit liquor to keep any authorities clueless as to what they are doing. You might be willing to pay more to stay legal but that does not mean others will especially those scraping to get by financially. Lot's of municipalities in WNY where a sizable percentage of the local population receives public assistance of some sort so saving 10, 20, 30 or more bucks per week cash would be a big deal. Fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 38 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: There are more and more places that require a permit for alcohol but I don't know that it is a 100 percent across the board requirement. There will be rules imposed on pot when made legal recreationally in NY so it will not be as simple as being legal to possess. As you said black market is undercutting legal sellers in states where rec pot is legal and I expect the same to be true when legal in NY. NY has a huge appetite for sales tax money and the same will be true with rec pot when it happens so that will leave ample room for the black market to compete. Most people truth be told don't have to do business with a dangerous person to buy pot so when they get tired of paying 20 plus percent more at Walgreens and the guys miss the women in the skimpy outfits they will look up their old supplier. Denver is actually having the opposite effect. The stuff at the stores are better than they are in the streets. I watched a news report last year that these shops are getting robbed and the robbers aren't taking the cash....they are taking the product. The product in these stores are scientifically made and are much stronger. They can't replicate it themselves so they steal it. I have a guy that grows his own stuff in Atlanta....it's good. I also had medical grade in California and that hit me much, much harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 minute ago, RochesterRob said: While it does happen in pockets I question that a pot related conviction gets you barred from any employment even good wage jobs. BIL works construction and maintenance type jobs and is pretty open about his pot usage. He makes pretty good money most years and does not have the headaches of being a business owner like I do. Some people maintain that a number of professionals who work in partnerships or just work for a firm use pot and they are not being walked to the door due to pot. Some people can't find work due to character issues plain and simple.. In the corporate world, a lot will disqualify from being hired immediately for a felony regardless of what it is for. Now, it usually isn't a felony for pot related charges, but for multiple offenses or distribution it certainly could be and it was a hell of a lot easier to get a felony for it just 5 or 10 years ago and a lot of those people are yet to re-enter society from those harsher times. Granted, it will still take time to flush those out of the system (as I have never heard of retro application of the laws and releasing people / removing it from their records), but years down the road when there are no low-level prisoners left to release, there can certainly be a benefit to be realized here. Especially for the minority population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Denver is actually having the opposite effect. The stuff at the stores are better than they are in the streets. I watched a news report last year that these shops are getting robbed and the robbers aren't taking the cash....they are taking the product. The product in these stores are scientifically made and are much stronger. They can't replicate it themselves so they steal it. I have a guy that grows his own stuff in Atlanta....it's good. I also had medical grade in California and that hit me much, much harder. Just like in any economy the market will adapt including the black market. Poor quality suppliers will get weeded (no pun intended) out and be replaced by high quality suppliers. Most people serious about growing MJ know about fertility and other agronomic issues related to MJ to put out a competitive product. The guy just sticking a dozen plants in his backyard and forgetting about them until harvest will go by the wayside. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 8 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: Longfellow died penniless. And apparently without arrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Legal pot everywhere in the USA is coming, and coming soon. Just a question of how long exactly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I asked this before. What's going to be the baseline for intoxication? Will there be a metric like say for alcohol @ .08 bac? It can't be wishy washy, just left up to the LEO... Going to be nothing but trouble in this toxic anti-authority society... Gotta be an objective NOT subjective metric. I am not big on quantitative lines drawn in the sand, but let's be real here. Humans need limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 31 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: I asked this before. What's going to be the baseline for intoxication? Will there be a metric like say for alcohol @ .08 bac? It can't be wishy washy, just left up to the LEO... Going to be nothing but trouble in this toxic anti-authority society... Gotta be an objective NOT subjective metric. I am not big on quantitative lines drawn in the sand, but let's be real here. Humans need limits. Also, how are the lawyers going to factor in. Alcohol is legal and there are definitions for intoxication that are used to decide legal and civil cases involving injury and death. Knowing people that have owned or do own bars lawsuits have greatly impacted the profitability of bars serving alcohol. Many across the region have closed because liability insurance and legal representation have eaten all the profits. The ambulance chasing lawyers will find a way to make money off of pot just like they have alcohol if businesses pop up to serve pot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Fadingpain said: Legal pot everywhere in the USA is coming, and coming soon. Just a question of how long exactly. Yes !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxum Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: Denver is actually having the opposite effect. The stuff at the stores are better than they are in the streets. I watched a news report last year that these shops are getting robbed and the robbers aren't taking the cash....they are taking the product. The product in these stores are scientifically made and are much stronger. They can't replicate it themselves so they steal it. I have a guy that grows his own stuff in Atlanta....it's good. I also had medical grade in California and that hit me much, much harder. At $250 an ounce not surprised product is stolen. Most of money is probably credit card receipts or money in lock boxes difficult to get access to by thieves quickly. And I think there will probably be as many dealer and dealer workers arrested since black market will not go away with potential profits as well as illegal importers and those who farm on public lands. Plus interstate transporters doing it without licenses. Remember the IRS got Capone. In 1931, the Internal Revenue Service's Intelligence Unit completed an investigation of Alphonse Capone which led to his conviction for tax evasion for which he served 11 years in prison. He was not sent to jail for moonshining, etc. Yes some users will not be arrested but that is not the major class of felons filling prisons but they will be sent as well when stoned driver kills someone and gets arrested DWI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) I'll bet that most all you naysayers are pubicans. The party for 'less guvment, more freedom', or so your party is based on. Hippo krits. Guns good. Grass bad. LoL! FU all! 8 hours ago, RochesterRob said: I guess that I will be the wet blanket to some degree. If it is like New York I would expect once recreational pot is legal it will be subject to rules just like alcohol and tobacco. There are a fair amount of public places you can not consume alcohol or tobacco and those same areas will no doubt be off limits for pot. Also, I would expect the cost not to change much or even increase when the state levies a tax on it. The black market is not going to go away especially if the tax is on the hefty side at 25-30 percent or more. For people expecting to make a fortune on the production side they will get to know the pitfalls of commodity production with the added twist of competing with the black market. For most people using pot I doubt they will see a significant difference in their lifestyle in terms of buying or using. Yeah, so what's your point? Black market? Like where I buy my camels and Budweiser? Taxes...whole different debate! Edited June 28, 2018 by BUFFALOKIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptide Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: I asked this before. What's going to be the baseline for intoxication? Will there be a metric like say for alcohol @ .08 bac? It can't be wishy washy, just left up to the LEO... Going to be nothing but trouble in this toxic anti-authority society... Gotta be an objective NOT subjective metric. I am not big on quantitative lines drawn in the sand, but let's be real here. Humans need limits. I agree there needs to be some kind of limit or some form of measurement similar to alcohol. However, if I had to choose between riding with a drunk person or someone who was high, I'd choose the high person every time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 11 hours ago, teef said: this is just for medical...right? Of course, ? 8 minutes ago, Steptide said: I agree there needs to be some kind of limit or some form of measurement similar to alcohol. However, if I had to choose between riding with a drunk person or someone who was high, I'd choose the high person every time. You wanna hit taco bell bro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 15 minutes ago, Steptide said: I agree there needs to be some kind of limit or some form of measurement similar to alcohol. However, if I had to choose between riding with a drunk person or someone who was high, I'd choose the high person every time. I'd choose neither. Everybody handles drugs differently... There would never be a reason to choose one over the other. We are just used to see what alcohol brings to driving. Now we will see what the Mary Jane brings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: I'd choose neither. Everybody handles drugs differently... There would never be a reason to choose one over the other. We are just used to see what alcohol brings to driving. Now we will see what the Mary Jane brings. Where have you been? You still don't know the difference? People like you... BTW, you should know better than to say "never". Edited June 28, 2018 by BUFFALOKIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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