oldmanfan Posted June 28, 2018 Posted June 28, 2018 57 minutes ago, Doc said: Lynch admitted he didn't act professionally in Buffalo but did once he got to Seattle. !@#$. As for Dareus, he played well-enough to earn a big contract. But whether he should have been given $17M/year is debatable and not having any protections for the Bills in there was a major blunder. The way they structured Dareus' contract was awful.
JohnC Posted June 28, 2018 Posted June 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Did Dareus drive like a demon scattering pedestrians during daylight hours? I musta missed it - not a surprise. I hear what you say, John. I do. As I've said elsewhere, you need the top-paid players to be the leaders, the hardest workers, the guys who prepare hard and train hard and play hard on every down. And when I've looked at the success elsewhere of players we once traded for a fire-sale price such as Marshawn Lynch, or if Watkins succeeds and Dareus gets back to form elsewhere, I've told and will tell myself "you can't assume they could have been as successful here, they needed that change of scene or that wake-up call". But then there's this bottom line: to have a chance to be successful, sooner or later we have to be able to provide that "wake up call" or change of scene internally, through coaching or player leaders or what-have-you. Because you can't become a great team by continually trading away your top-drafted talent for pennies on the dollar. https://recklessdrivingny.com/blog/reckless-driving-buffalo-bills-marcell-dareus/ I'm not an idealist or purist who believes everyone has to fit the angelic mold. In a locker room there is a wide range of people with different personalities and work habits. Not everyone is going to be a work out warrior during the season or offseason. I'm not an ideologue on this issue and allow for some forbearance and flexibility. Not every lineman is going to live up to the Kyle Williams standard. However, when this new regime took over they clearly stated how they wanted to build the roster and the type of diligent people they prefer beyond the issue of talent. Repeatedly, Dareus has failed that standard. That doesn't mean that he is a bad guy but it does indicate that he is not meeting an established standard. In my view I believe that Dareus is capable of being one of the top interior linemen in the league. He demonstrated that elite level of play when he was playing for a contract. After he got it he fell into a pattern of play and behavior that reflected his immaturity and unpreparedness. Dareus wasn't dispatched because this regime didn't want him. When he played at his maximum potential he was well worth his gilded contract. He was traded because he failed to meet his responsibilities on and off the field. It's easy to apply your high standards to the fringe players. But when you apply your high standards to your best players you are sending a message that reverberates throughout the roster. Why do you think that the Bills made the playoffs last year with a stripped down team? They made it because everyone bought in to what the HC was espousing. I like Dareus and want him to succeed. It wasn't going to happen in Buffalo. As I stated before being traded to Jacksonville was the right thing to do for Dareus and for the Bills. I sincerely wish him the best. 2
Bing Bong Posted June 28, 2018 Posted June 28, 2018 5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: With respect, that is to an extent revisionist history. There was a point where people who know their football were saying "Marcell Dareus is the best DT in the league, Period." Did he let that slide, yes, he did. And slacking gets to be a habit, just like anything else a fellow does for a while. My point is that at the end of the day, to field a championship team, you need top talent. Top talent is NOT always going to be married to great character, maturity, and singleness of purpose. So to succeed as Champions somehow at the end of the day the Bills need to be able to provide whatever it was that allowed Marshawn Lynch to succeed in Seattle in a way that he could or would not here; if Dareus regains his form in Jax ditto. Preach. If a talented player doesn't play well for you, goes over to Jax or any other situation and does play well.. it's a poor reflection on your ability to bring out the best in your employees. Ability to maximize high maintenance but highly talented employees shows your ability as a manager/coach.. anything in life.
26CornerBlitz Posted June 28, 2018 Author Posted June 28, 2018 Speaking of Dareus, this is a nice gesture by him. 1
Behindenemylines Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/28/2018 at 3:47 PM, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Preach. If a talented player doesn't play well for you, goes over to Jax or any other situation and does play well.. it's a poor reflection on your ability to bring out the best in your employees. Ability to maximize high maintenance but highly talented employees shows your ability as a manager/coach.. anything in life. I agree with that 90% of the time. Sometimes people decide on things impossible to control such as location etc. How that affects attitude and performance cannot be accounted for.
transplantbillsfan Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 Good stuff!!! I just really have a lot of confidence in Beane. He demonstrates a lot of that reason for it here.
JohnC Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/28/2018 at 3:47 PM, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Preach. f a talented player doesn't play well for you, goes over to Jax or any other situation and does play well.. it's a poor reflection on your ability to bring out the best in your employees. Ability to maximize high maintenance but highly talented employees shows your ability as a manager/coach.. anything in life. If a talented player doesn't play well for you he isn't playing well for you. It doesn't matter how much potential you have as a player. In the end it's about production. He wasn't playing to his talent level and his bonanza contract. The onus is on the player. McBeane didn't junk Dareus because of an incident. They dispatched him because of a pattern of behavior over an extended period of time. What you are essentially saying here is that it is the fault of the teacher when the smart kid who sleeps in class and doesn't crack a book and do his homework fails. That is a perverted notion of accountability and responsibility. Maybe a change of scenery with a different coaching staff will work wonders for Dareus. If so, I will be happy for him, What was evident in Buffalo was that Dareus wasn't buying in to what was expected of him. Dareus is not a bad guy. But that is not to say that he was a responsible and accountable person either. The person most responsible for him being traded is the player himself. The Bills have moved on. It was a tough decision but also the right decision. 2
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/28/2018 at 10:10 AM, Happy Gilmore said: The point you make about retaining and not trading top talent for pennies on the dollar is well taken and typically hard to argue against. If a team must trade top talent, it should strive to get a premium for them, I agree. In cases like Dareus and Lynch, I think the Bills tried to work with them and give them every chance possible. The problem arises is that if such players cannot, or will not, realize they need to shape up (both on and off the field) the team has no choice but to unload them at a discount. Other teams have pro scouts whose job it is to gather ALL information on the player, so any potential trade partner knows the issues regardless of talent and playing potential. So in the cases of Lynch and Dareus, no team was going to pay a premium on them due to behavioral issues. ....solid assessment.....just my opinion, but Lynch, Dareus & Peters really didn't want to be in Bflo.....so you get what you can and move on..... 1
Happy Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....solid assessment.....just my opinion, but Lynch, Dareus & Peters really didn't want to be in Bflo.....so you get what you can and move on..... Exactly. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 17 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Exactly. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip. ...LMAO.....the "Turnip Trio"......you win...
Saxum Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/27/2018 at 10:49 PM, billsfan89 said: I get why they traded Dareus but it was no coincidence that once he was traded the run defense fell off a cliff. It almost sabotaged the defense on the season but longer-term shedding that salary and getting him out of the culture might be worth it. It is also no coincidence they also has good games when he was unable to play before traded. Two coincidences pointing to opposite directions means it is not as strong a point as some emphasis. On 6/28/2018 at 11:52 AM, oldmanfan said: The way they structured Dareus' contract was awful. That was all on Jim Overdorf who was in control of all contracts. Beane was given full control and will only use Jim Overdorf "when needed".
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Limeaid said: It is also no coincidence they also has good games when he was unable to play before traded. Two coincidences pointing to opposite directions means it is not as strong a point as some emphasis. ...just didn't see where his heart was here with McD/McBeane demanding accountability, discipline & team focus.....odd that he ends up in J-Ville with da Furher Coughlin being even more demanding and Marrone a disciple of disciplined culture.....
BuffaloBill Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/26/2018 at 3:24 PM, RoyBatty is alive said: Makes me glad we traded him. I didn't know Dareus said that, obviously very disappointing. I have some compassion for Dareus as he has had a brutal life and, and honestly isn't too bright. But he brought it all on himself, not like he couldn't see it coming after some of the trades they had already done with Watkins, no player that wasn't on board no matter what the talent wasn't safe. Trust the process. Dareus has monster talent but his inconsistency and lack of drive really ruined his career in Buffalo. It’s hard to understand how he could play next to Kyle Williams and not have some of that tenacity and leadership rub off on him.
John from Riverside Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 Loved todays stuff on the board about Syron Neil (sp) This is how GM's really effectively manage the cap....if they can find guys in the later rounds that play several defense schemes they keep the cost of those players down.....allowing the kids like Neil and Edmunds to grow up together.....and still have the ability to be competative in the free agent market for positions that they could not fill via draft.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 2, 2018 Posted July 2, 2018 On 6/30/2018 at 12:56 PM, Limeaid said: That was all on Jim Overdorf who was in control of all contracts. Beane was given full control and will only use Jim Overdorf "when needed". So if Overdorf isn't doing contracts now, what IS he doing?
Royale with Cheese Posted July 2, 2018 Posted July 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So if Overdorf isn't doing contracts now, what IS he doing? Maybe an Advisor of Contracts? Just make sure the format and the language in the contract is right. Maybe be now Beane sets the comp.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 2, 2018 Posted July 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Maybe an Advisor of Contracts? Just make sure the format and the language in the contract is right. Maybe be now Beane sets the comp. Could be, I guess
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 2, 2018 Posted July 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Could be, I guess ....haven't seen anything Hap that changes his 2008 promotion...... Bills promote Overdorf to senior VP in minor restructuring Associated Press Published: Jan. 31, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. Updated: July 26, 2012 at 08:17 p.m. ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Jim Overdorf was promoted to Buffalo Bills senior vice president of football administration, giving him control over contract negotiations and salary cap decisions.
Saxum Posted July 2, 2018 Posted July 2, 2018 He was specifically quoted as going to have Jim Overdorf look at something meaning that he always doesn't. This was post January 2018.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 2, 2018 Posted July 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, Limeaid said: He was specifically quoted as going to have Jim Overdorf look at something meaning that he always doesn't. This was post January 2018. ...so if McBeane deemed Overdorf as a "prior regime impediment", why wouldn't Pegula pull the trigger to find someone else better?.....he certainly could afford (COUGH) the "best and the brightest", right?......just askin' here........
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