Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 6 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: The Art of a Deal SAL CAPACCIO Bills GM Brandon Beane details how his deals were made It was just about two o’clock in the afternoon on Halloween, two hours before the NFL trade deadline. Bills’ general manager Brandon Beane’s phone rang. On the other end was Carolina Panthers’ GM Marty Hurney, who wanted to revisit a conversation the two were having just the day before. Beane’s Bills were 5-2 and playing well. Ending the organization’s 17-year playoff drought was looking more and more possible each week. But to keep winning, Beane felt the team still needed to add another piece to their roster, especially at wide receiver since Jordan Matthews was just coming off a knee injury and there was still some uncertainty surrounding it. Thanks for posting. I wanted this article, just as I want to like Beane. What it comes down to is: he shipped a bunch of high-round draft picks who are acknowledged to be able to play, for fire sale prices. Now if Allen and Edmunds prove out, that will trump everything else. If Benjamin can stay healthy and play this year, that will count for a lot. But right now, as it stands, he isn't looking like Negotiator of the Century. 1
JohnC Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Thanks for posting. I wanted this article, just as I want to like Beane. What it comes down to is: he shipped a bunch of high-round draft picks who are acknowledged to be able to play, for fire sale prices. Now if Allen and Edmunds prove out, that will trump everything else. If Benjamin can stay healthy and play this year, that will count for a lot. But right now, as it stands, he isn't looking like Negotiator of the Century. McDermott and Beane took over the operation with the intention of rebuilding the roster with their type of players/people. They wanted dedicated and self-motivated players who didn't need cajoling to practice and play with full effort. It is acknowledged that Dareus is a tremendous talent but clearly he can't be counted on to play to his abilities. I have no doubt that Dareus is much more talented than Star Lotulelei but not close to being as diligent and dependable than the former Panther is. Beane was able to draft Allen and Edmunds because he got picks for shedding some of his talented players and using those picks to maneuver to get these two highly touted prospects. And in rather short order the GM was able to put this team in a very good situation with respect to the cap. Next year this team is going to have a lot of cap space and flexibility to continue with reworking and upgrading the roster. It still is very premature to know whether collectively Beane's transactions will pan out. But in my view because of his bold moves the rebuilding process has been accelerated and is on course. Overall, I'm very positive at what he has done. 3
Stank_Nasty Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 The way he broke down and worked both teams when shipping Watkins and Darby on the same day....pretty awesome stuff here.
Steptide Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 I think it was John Murphy, maybe Chris brown that made the point on the radio last week that Dareus had the best possible mentor in Kyle Williams. If Dareus still couldn't/wouldn't change after all those years under Kyle Williams, he never will. I think it's a great point
Happy Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Thanks for posting. I wanted this article, just as I want to like Beane. What it comes down to is: he shipped a bunch of high-round draft picks who are acknowledged to be able to play, for fire sale prices. Now if Allen and Edmunds prove out, that will trump everything else. If Benjamin can stay healthy and play this year, that will count for a lot. But right now, as it stands, he isn't looking like Negotiator of the Century. By fire sale prices, I assume you are referring to Dareus. JAX is assuming Dareus' $47M cap hit during the 2019-2021 season. Plus Marcel was never going to buy into McD's system, so he became a headache no matter how talented he is. I don't mind getting rid of Dareus which will allow Beane and McD significant room to bring in guys who they want and will not be a management nightmare. So Bean may not be Negotiator of the Century, but he could be Roster Architect of potentially the Decade; time will tell on that. 3
Doc Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Thanks for posting. I wanted this article, just as I want to like Beane. What it comes down to is: he shipped a bunch of high-round draft picks who are acknowledged to be able to play, for fire sale prices. Now if Allen and Edmunds prove out, that will trump everything else. If Benjamin can stay healthy and play this year, that will count for a lot. But right now, as it stands, he isn't looking like Negotiator of the Century. He got pretty good value for Sammy and Darby. Dareus not so much, but his contract was an albatross. 2
Captain Murica Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Doc said: He got pretty good value for Sammy and Darby. Dareus not so much, but his contract was an albatross. To get anything for him and rid themselves of that disgusting contract(thanks Whaley & Overdorf) was a positive in my book. The money he was making, he was not making the impact that players like McCoy and Atkins have at their positions. For example: Spot Trac has him compared to the following players listed below. The jags are basically paying him this season at a base salary of 9.9 million to be a rotational player. I think in the end we got the better of the deal as his dead money comes off our books after this season. Similar Players GA GP GS SNAPS SNAPS% SACKS TACKLES SOLO TACKLES AST TACKLES FF INT AAV T.Coley, CLE Similarity Score: 89.78% 15 15 15 659 0.615 2 41 24 17 $510,000 E.Ankou, JAC Similarity Score: 89.35% 9 9 174 0.168 1.5 15 8 7 $556,167 C.Thornton, BUF Similarity Score: 88.22% 15 15 3 389 0.352 2 27 18 9 $467,500 A.Jones, JAC Similarity Score: 84.11% 15 15 15 489 0.472 1 31 24 7 1 $495,833 P.Sims, CIN Similarity Score: 83.33% 14 14 8 307 0.289 1 25 10 15 $950,000 Edited June 27, 2018 by Captain Murica 1
Richard Noggin Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 7 hours ago, VADC Bills said: I didn't like the way they tried to bring down his character to justify getting nothing for him. When he showed up late for game day their ego's became bruised so he had to go. Beane and McDermott handled the situation like rookie managers who wanted to make an example out of someone to keep everyone else in line.. I see it everyday in corporate America. If he was that much of a problem Marrone would not have jumped to get him. Good read sprinkled with BS. Evidence and reason mean you no harm, I promise. I have three questions, if you'll indulge me: How did they "tr[y] to bring down his character"? How do you know their "ego's (sic) became bruised"? How are the high-level meetings in your "corporate America"? 1
purple haze Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Nice. Sounds pretty butt-hurt about being traded for a 5th. I think he was upset about being traded at all. I think he liked being in Buffalo. Didn't he take out ad in the BN after the trade thanking the fans? And for all the talk about Marcell's (bad) habits, he is not playing pro ball due to an act of charity. There is talent and hard work involved. Enough to realize Hall of Fame potential? Apparently not. But work nonetheless. Edited June 27, 2018 by purple haze
MJS Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, VADC Bills said: I didn't like the way they tried to bring down his character to justify getting nothing for him. When he showed up late for game day their ego's became bruised so he had to go. Beane and McDermott handled the situation like rookie managers who wanted to make an example out of someone to keep everyone else in line.. I see it everyday in corporate America. If he was that much of a problem Marrone would not have jumped to get him. Good read sprinkled with BS. Haha. What? Everyone knew Dareus had garbage character. They didn't have to justify a thing except how to deal with the cap hit. And BTW, Dareus played great under Marrone. Duh. He fell off a cliff with Rex and no longer wanted to play for the Bills, so he didn't try. Edited June 27, 2018 by MJS 1
John from Riverside Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 Just so much alternative facts by some when it came to Marcel - Reports of repeated team meeting tardyness....late for practice. - Use of drugs that could get him a year suspension - Showing up out of shape to camp and expecting to work himself INTO shape - LACK OF PRODUCTION given the huge contract The bills did the only thing they could do....found a way to get out from under the contract by practically GIVING him away.....but also gave away his huge contract...... He did not fit what we were trying to do.....Star's contract is considerablly less......Beane did the only thing he really could do. By the way....we made the playoffs without him
Aussie Joe Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 10 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...perhaps Chapter 2 of his deal making IMO.....in the market to sign a vet QB....I believe the blown Cleveland deal had McCarron valued at a 2nd or 3rd.....so the FA feeding frenzy begins and ends yet McBeane doesn't make a move, calmly waiting for agents to come calling for their unemployed clients.....and he snags McCarron on HIS terms.....or even Chapter 3 to move up draft time to 12 and then again to 7 to select (hopefully) the franchise QB (Allen) without surrendering much draft capital......of course, the jury is out on BOTH, but I would say both deals were artful so far....... And trading Tyrod for Pick 65 before his bonus was due when a lot of experts here were adamant they should just cut him as no one would even offer a 7th.. 1
Bring it Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 Imo Marcell is a talented player that may or may not bring everything on game day or to practice. Looking back on it now I felt that he screwed the Bills because he obviously checked out once he got his big franchise contract. We never saw Marcell at his best after that! Nice guy for sure, but for him to have any ill feelings toward the Bills for dealing him isn’t right. He had every chance here to tow the mark and wouldn’t. I don’t hate Marcell at all, it really is a shame when a guy has hall of fame talent but lacks the discipline. He reminds me of Derrick Coleman of the Syracuse Orangemen. What a waste of talent!
BritBill Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 I can't access the article as the WGR websites restricts users from outside the US. Please can somebody paste the article on here if possible? Thank you.
JohnC Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 10 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: By fire sale prices, I assume you are referring to Dareus. JAX is assuming Dareus' $47M cap hit during the 2019-2021 season. Plus Marcel was never going to buy into McD's system, so he became a headache no matter how talented he is. I don't mind getting rid of Dareus which will allow Beane and McD significant room to bring in guys who they want and will not be a management nightmare. So Bean may not be Negotiator of the Century, but he could be Roster Architect of potentially the Decade; time will tell on that. Dareus was shipped out and Lotulellei was brought in. Without question Dareus is the more talented player. But being more talented doesn't mean that he is going to be more prepared and productive than the Carolina player who was brought in to replace him. Beane and McDermott want a roster populated with players who are mature and dedicated to their profession. In contrast the former Bama player had slothful work habits. Sadly to say Dareus in Buffalo didn't fit in within this regime's established parameters. I'm hoping that Dareus playing under Marrone will regain his form that made him one of the best interior linemen in the game. It wasn't happening here.
colin Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 10 hours ago, Doc said: He got pretty good value for Sammy and Darby. Dareus not so much, but his contract was an albatross. what's that? facts. he really did get low value for marcel, but in the end it could work out. darby and watkins were great values. while darby is a solid player, our secondary was really solid last year, so we net net are fine. Sammy has redunk talent, but he just didn't fit in/get along/stay healthy to the point where we were gonna keep him, and neither did the team who traded for him. based on the above, i agree w you vs the fans who said he gave away talent at a fire sale, i'd say overall he got solid/fair value. the one thin i will agree with from the fans in this thread w a more hedged opinion on beane -- it really comes down to his draft this year, and that's almost all on Josh Allen. I suppose it is possible for peterman to ball out, and every other pick made this year to be solid and Allen busts and we are still a good team who had a good draft, but if Allen can get to a pro bowl level (and he probably has to get there in a bit of a hurry, and without totally stinking for too long) that's the silver bullet we (every team?) needs. what i love about this front office is they have an identity and they are pushing their own mandate at full speed. whaley was a bit of a mish mash of a hedger and a risk taker, he'd flip one player off and hit a home run (like w #55) and get a very solid value with tyrod, but then he'd also over pay percy and clay and so so on, and left some holes in the roster (obv shady was a grand slam). it felt like he was trying to maximize the pay off of each move in isolation, without thinking about how it was going to form a better overall team. this current front office is very very clear in what they want and are putting thoughts to action, which means it either succeeds, or it fails and there is no kinda sorta decision point where maybe you keep the gm, fire the coach, or vice versa, or whatever. the are standing up to be counted and it will be clear if they are getting it done, or not.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 1 hour ago, BritBill said: I can't access the article as the WGR websites restricts users from outside the US. Please can somebody paste the article on here if possible? Thank you. Pasting an entire article is a violation of US copyright law. Some sites wink at it, but please don't post entire articles here. "Fair use" quotes of part of the material to illustrate a point are fine. Here's part of the section on Dareus: October 28: Bills trade DT Marcell Dareus to the Jacksonville Jaguars for a 2018 conditional 6th round pick that eventually became a 5th round pick Well before Beane’s arrival in Buffalo, there were plenty of questions about Dareus’ future, and problems in his past. Tardiness, multiple suspensions by both the league and team, and questions about his dedication (....) three weeks into the preseason, Dareus was sent home from the Bills’ exhibition game in Baltimore for violating team rules. “Marcell has talent,” Beane recognized. We were really trying to get him to do things our way (....) I don't know that we were ever going to get him there. Once the 53-man roster was finalized and Dareus wasn’t dealt, Beane (...) says he never contacted anyone after that to see if they were still interested in trading for Dareus. But just before the trade deadline, the Jaguars called. Beane says he told the Jags, “if you aren’t going to give me a hard fifth, at least give me a chance to get it. You’re arguing, ‘what if he can’t play?’ Well, what if he does play? Then I want fair compensation.” 1
BigBuff423 Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Thanks for posting. I wanted this article, just as I want to like Beane. What it comes down to is: he shipped a bunch of high-round draft picks who are acknowledged to be able to play, for fire sale prices. Now if Allen and Edmunds prove out, that will trump everything else. If Benjamin can stay healthy and play this year, that will count for a lot. But right now, as it stands, he isn't looking like Negotiator of the Century. I think I understand your overarching point, but the question becomes as with Watkins (meaning Dareus as originally referred to in OP), what does a team do when the player simply refuses to accept the culture change? According to Beane they tried to work with Dareus and Watkins admitted after getting to L.A. that he didn't have a team first mentality, so what does a team do when the player refuses to accept that the team is more important than the individual - no matter how talented that player may be...? Darby trade I didn't understand and I wasn't a big fan of Glenn trade just because I think Glenn is a franchise LT and yes there's Dawkins, but why not either move him inside or flip him to RT and keep two great guys on the Offensive line? But other than Darby - which I understand was a scheme fit issue - I was good with the trades just because I do believe in the larger picture. We'll disagree about the negotiator part though because Dareus had a huge contract and under-produced for the last three years and has behavior issues with the NFL, so a 5th isn't terrible as I'm sure it was as much about unloading the contract as it was getting a player in the Draft. Keep in mind, the Bills also got Jordan Matthews in that trade that was supposed to help the WR corp for a year - but an injury is unpredictable so they didn't get much out of him and the Watkins trade also yielded E.J. Gaines who was arguably their second best CB behind the Rookie phenom Tre White. So while I'm not ready to give him the title of the best GM or think that everything he's done has been perfect, I think he's done an admirable job with what he inherited. Also, due to these same measures, the 2019 Cap situation is very, very good.
elroy16 Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: And trading Tyrod for Pick 65 before his bonus was due when a lot of experts here were adamant they should just cut him as no one would even offer a 7th.. That 3rd was crucial because it also allowed them to move up for Edmunds and still have a pick in the 3rd to snag Horrible Harry. Those comments by Dareus are ridiculous. I can understand being upset, but he really needs to look in the mirror. Beane could only get a conditional 6th for "one of the best players in the league." You think that would say something to him, but instead he blames Beane and/or McDermott. Where's Dareus on the top 100 players list that the players vote on? That's right, not on it. I defended Dareus a lot, but at some point you gotta grow up. I didn't like the Benjamin trade because it was late in the season and he's not really the type of WR that can flourish with Tyrod. It sounds like he's motivated this off season and he should fit better with the current group of QB's, so maybe that will turn into a better looking trade. I was iffy on the Darby trade, but the secondary didn't miss a beat, so it gets a pass.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 It was a great, no brainer deal for the Jags. For all his faults, our run defense was much better when Dareus was on the team (and the Jags improved tremendously after getting him) . Trading him at that point in the season made no sense. Now, Dareus is super motivated and we gave big money to a 1-2 down DT in a passing league (for the record, I like star but he is becoming an outdated player). 2 hours ago, JohnC said: Dareus was shipped out and Lotulellei was brought in. Without question Dareus is the more talented player. But being more talented doesn't mean that he is going to be more prepared and productive than the Carolina player who was brought in to replace him. Beane and McDermott want a roster populated with players who are mature and dedicated to their profession. In contrast the former Bama player had slothful work habits. Sadly to say Dareus in Buffalo didn't fit in within this regime's established parameters. I'm hoping that Dareus playing under Marrone will regain his form that made him one of the best interior linemen in the game. It wasn't happening here. Dareus had almost as many sacks in one season as Star had in his career. Dareus also never had Kuechley and Thomas Davis behind him.
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