Sammy Watkins classes it up on his way out of LA

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Well, Sammy IS the chosen one, no?

 

Maybe his 3rd stop will prove this out.

 

I have no idea if you're attempting make a point here

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Forget about Sammy making $13M since he wasn't going to be paid that by the Bills last season (it would have been this season, if they picked up his 5th-year option).

 

As for what would have happened if he stayed, I can only surmise.  What I do know is they made the playoffs without, and got a 2nd rounder for, him and he was a goner this off-season for sure. 

 

As for Gaines, he played in 59% of the snaps.  That's hardly "barely played" and the Bills were 1-4 in games he missed. 

So we traded a player whom when not on the field may have lost us games ? Just like Sammy did. fair trade ...I guess

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Dak developed zero rapport with Dez and does not pass downfield.  I think choosing Reid's offense over Dak and Garret is an easy choice.

 

After a season playing with a young QB that couldn't throw the deep ball I don't think Watkins wanted any part of a long term engagement with the similarly deep-ball deficient Dak.

 

That's not to say Watkins can't excel at short or intermediate routes but what truly separates Watkins is an elite ability to track and accelerate to and thru deep throws and catch the ball in stride 40-50 yards downfield with ease.

 

Great fit with Mahomes and would have been an incredible skillset matchup with Josh Allen.

 

[Doc]

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He was a goner because they wanted him gone. Just because they made the playoffs doesn't make it a good decision. Their WRs are a bad unit at the moment and we're  an atrocious unit before Beane finally got a legitimate WR on the roster in Benjamin.... and Watkins is better.

 

I'm sure the Bills were 1-4 because Gaines was out of the lineup....

 

Let me break this down for you Scott.  The Bills weren't thrilled with Sammy's attitude, injuries and production.  So they decided they weren't going to pick up his 5th year option and pay him $13.3M for this coming season (much less the $16M/year the Chefs gave him and will soon regret, for several reasons).  Meaning he was gone at the end of the 2017 season. 

 

Instead of losing him for nothing, or at-best being awarded an end-of-3rd round comp pick in 2019, they decided to trade him and got a 2nd round pick in 2018. They probably figured it would hurt their chances at making the playoffs, which didn't matter since they should have been rebuilding, but lo and behold, they ended up making the playoffs without him, making the pick they got icing on the cake.  Those together made it a very good decision, and dare I say a great one.  And the fact that he couldn't crack 4 receptions or 40/yards per game with the Rams suggests that they weren't wrong to trade him in the first place. 

 

Had the Bills missed the playoffs or Sammy been a top-5 WR, maybe you could criticize them for trading him.  But do you think he's worth $13.3M for this year, much less $16M/year? 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

How is that relevant to which guy is the better player?

 

 

You made a point about the wide disparity in their contracts, as if that alone is evidence of a huge difference in their value.  But it's a point not worth making as one guy was a top 5 pick whereas the other is a solid DB who would never command top WR type money.

 

What you are also missing is that Watkins contract was something of a "game changer" in that he was widely seen as grossly overpaid (much of it guaranteed) when compared to his production---"underperforming" is the common descriptor. 

[Bing Bong]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

 

I can't take that article seriously.  If the money were indeed similar, who do you think Watkins would rather play with/for: Prescott and Dallas or Mahomes and KC? 

I'd bet Mahomes gives him more targets. Dak spreads it around. He likes his safety blankets like Cole Beasly and Witten. Never gelled with Dez. Kind of like when Russel Wilson didn't really care to force feed Jimmy Graham (he was horrible at it too. Would just throw wildly high)

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I'd bet Mahomes gives him more targets. Dak spreads it around. He likes his safety blankets like Cole Beasly and Witten. Never gelled with Dez. Kind of like when Russel Wilson didn't really care to force feed Jimmy Graham (he was horrible at it too. Would just throw wildly high)

 

Russell Wilson was "horrible at feeding JimmY graham" passes?  The same Graham who had 122 catches for 1450 yards, 16 TDs and 2 Pro Bowls the past two seasons with consecutive Pro Bowl selections?

 

 

[Bing Bong]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Russell Wilson was "horrible at feeding JimmY graham" passes?  The same Graham who had 122 catches for 1450 yards, 16 TDs and 2 Pro Bowls the past two seasons with consecutive Pro Bowl selections?

 

 

Yeah..? the same Jimmy Graham that put up those numbers (over 2 years in SEA) in 1 season with Drew Brees lol. Graham is a generational talent that could easily be at all time TE numbers with the right quarterback.

 

He had 520 yards last season. The Seahawks weren't exactly desperate to keep him. Obviously Russell is a great QB and Jimmy's a great TE so they hooked up for a few TDs. But he could have had better QB chemistry.

 

To my point that Watkins is looking for the right QB chemistry as well. Dak and Russell don't use their weapons as a crutch, they spread it around.

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So now players' greatness is defined by boneheaded contracts that GMs offer them?  I guess Mike Evans is the second best reliever alive right now....

 

 

 

 

Mike Evans is good. Overpriced but not boneheaded.. like what point are you trying to make on the thread lol. I seriously don't know where you stand

 

Like are you nailing home that Gaines is comparable to Watkins? That receivers shouldn't have an opinion who they want throwing to them?

[Bing Bong]

 "THE SAME MIKE EVANS THAT HAD 2,322 YARDS AND 17 TOUCHDOWNS RECENTLY" see it's pretty easy to do that lmao

[Doc]

34 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I'd bet Mahomes gives him more targets. Dak spreads it around. He likes his safety blankets like Cole Beasly and Witten. Never gelled with Dez. Kind of like when Russel Wilson didn't really care to force feed Jimmy Graham (he was horrible at it too. Would just throw wildly high)

 

 Mahomes would probably target Kelce and Hill more because he's been with them longer and Hill has the speed to go deep. 

[Bing Bong]

24 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 Mahomes would probably target Kelce and Hill more because he's been with them longer and Hill has the speed to go deep. 

Damn that's a good offense (if Mahomes pans out)

[Doc]

8 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Damn that's a good offense (if Mahomes pans out)

 

It will have to be to balance out that horrible defense.  But they better hope Mahomes' bad performances in OTAs and minicamps get resolved.

[That_Guy]

On 6/19/2018 at 7:52 PM, FrankoElTanko said:

I literally lol, thank you.

 

Edit: found this on Sammys Twitter

 

https://solarismodalis.com/reptilians-departure-from-earth-interesting-story/

I'm all for some good conspiracy theories from fluoride to chemtrails to 9/11 but that article is too whack even for me.  maybe i need to smoke more DMT.

[thebandit27]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You made a point about the wide disparity in their contracts, as if that alone is evidence of a huge difference in their value.  But it's a point not worth making as one guy was a top 5 pick whereas the other is a solid DB who would never command top WR type money.

 

What you are also missing is that Watkins contract was something of a "game changer" in that he was widely seen as grossly overpaid (much of it guaranteed) when compared to his production---"underperforming" is the common descriptor. 

 

Actually, the open market is the de facto determiner of value.  Period.

 

And draft status has zero effect on it.  RG3 was the #2 overall pick to a team that traded 3 years worth of 1st round picks (and change) in order to draft him, while Kirk Cousins was a 4th round pick. Both were on the open market this year.  One guy got a 3-year, $91M contract that was fully guaranteed; the other guy signed for the league minimum to be a 3rd stringer.

 

Whatever point you were trying to make in your initial response to me was unclear to begin with, but it's even less so now.  If your point is that you believe Watkins was overpaid, then just say so...I think he got a bit more than I was expecting (I figured it'd be $13M-$14M), but the fact remains that he still has significantly greater value than EJ Gaines, which was the original point.

[Da webster guy]

I still think if Beane had any clue we would be in the playoffs he would have kept Sammy.  He would have made a difference in that Jax game.  Had great chemistry with Tyrod.

Gaines was good when healthy, but Sammy can be such a game changer.

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Yeah..? the same Jimmy Graham that put up those numbers (over 2 years in SEA) in 1 season with Drew Brees lol. Graham is a generational talent that could easily be at all time TE numbers with the right quarterback.

 

He had 520 yards last season. The Seahawks weren't exactly desperate to keep him. Obviously Russell is a great QB and Jimmy's a great TE so they hooked up for a few TDs. But he could have had better QB chemistry.

 

To my point that Watkins is looking for the right QB chemistry as well. Dak and Russell don't use their weapons as a crutch, they spread it around.

Mike Evans is good. Overpriced but not boneheaded.. like what point are you trying to make on the thread lol. I seriously don't know where you stand

 

Like are you nailing home that Gaines is comparable to Watkins? That receivers shouldn't have an opinion who they want throwing to them?

 

Graham is not "a generational talent"--that would be Rob Gronkowski. 

 

"Hooked up for a couple of TDs"?  It was 16 over 2 seasons.  In fact, Wilson threw more TDs to Graham last year than to any other player on the team.  I'm not sure what chemical problems Wilson and Graham had that you are talking about.

 

As for Watkins, it seems his on the rise sophomore Rams QB had no "chemistry issues" with Woods, or any other receiver on that team.  And now he's going to find "better chemistry" with a first year starter/recent backup QB who he knows nothing about?  Ok, Sammy....

 

No, Gaines isn't exactly comparable to Watkins.  They have different jobs and different pedigrees and different jobs, so why would anyone think use their contracts to point out how more or less valuable they are to their teams?

 

As for your Evans post--I was making the point (to another poster)  that his contract money (2nd in the league) doesn't equate to him being the second best WR in the league.  And it has nothing to do with Graham.  He did just fine the past two years in Seattle--in an offense nothing like the one in New Orleans.  In fact, considering how drastically different the offenses are, Graham had remarkable production these past two seasons.

47 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Actually, the open market is the de facto determiner of value.  Period.

 

And draft status has zero effect on it.  RG3 was the #2 overall pick to a team that traded 3 years worth of 1st round picks (and change) in order to draft him, while Kirk Cousins was a 4th round pick. Both were on the open market this year.  One guy got a 3-year, $91M contract that was fully guaranteed; the other guy signed for the league minimum to be a 3rd stringer.

 

Whatever point you were trying to make in your initial response to me was unclear to begin with, but it's even less so now.  If your point is that you believe Watkins was overpaid, then just say so...I think he got a bit more than I was expecting (I figured it'd be $13M-$14M), but the fact remains that he still has significantly greater value than EJ Gaines, which was the original point.

 

Comparing 2 QBs of vastly different talent at this point in their careers to the difference in a WR and a CB doesn't further your argument.

 

My point was that saying "of course Sammy is great, look at all the money he is being paid"  isn't very persuasive.

[plenzmd1]

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

It will have to be to balance out that horrible defense.  But they better hope Mahomes' bad performances in OTAs and minicamps get resolved.

I have not read that anywhere..where did yu see that? I am hoping that's true...i really fear this guy being the real deal and the Bills looking for another solution in 2 years

[thebandit27]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Comparing 2 QBs of vastly different talent at this point in their careers to the difference in a WR and a CB doesn't further your argument.

 

My point was that saying "of course Sammy is great, look at all the money he is being paid"  isn't very persuasive.

 

Good thing I didn't say that then, huh?

 

Another poster said that Gaines was a better player than Watkins.  I simply pointed out that the open market shows that Watkins was worth 4x as much as Gaines.  If Gaines was viewed by anyone as a better player than Watkins, he'd have gotten more than medial backup CB money from the worst team in football.

 

[Doc]

 

1 minute ago, Da webster guy said:

I still think if Beane had any clue we would be in the playoffs he would have kept Sammy.  He would have made a difference in that Jax game.  Had great chemistry with Tyrod.

Gaines was good when healthy, but Sammy can be such a game changer.

 

He might have helped them win the game, but there were plays to be made in that game that weren't that could have won them the game.  And IMHO just making the playoffs was the most important thing.  They had no chance of winning the SB (they would have faced the Cheaters in the next round and obviously lost), so losing early and getting a better draft spot was better. 

 

36 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I have not read that anywhere..where did yu see that? I am hoping that's true...i really fear this guy being the real deal and the Bills looking for another solution in 2 years

 

I believe there was a thread on it earlier.  Might have been somewhere else though.

[Bing Bong]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

As for your Evans post--I was making the point (to another poster)  that his contract money (2nd in the league) doesn't equate to him being the second best WR in the league.  And it has nothing to do with Graham.  He did just fine the past two years in Seattle--in an offense nothing like the one in New Orleans.  In fact, considering how drastically different the offenses are, Graham had remarkable production these past two seasons.

I was a bit cranky last night. So were you felt like haha. No, Russell wasn't horrible throwing to Graham. But I truly believe Graham would have had better production for almost any other quarterback.. Like 20 quarterbacks would have gotten him more yards instead of using him solely as a red zone target. Like I saw it right away cause I was excited to see Russel with Graham and made a point to see that, but I could tell likes his waterbugs.. Doug Baldwins.. that get open rather than trusting a receiver to make a contested throw.

 

I hold Tyrod, Wilson, Dak in that regard in terms of style of play. Albeit different calibers of talent, they want their receiver open rather than just having a matchup advantage. Compare that to Nick Foles who tosses it up to Alshon Jeffrey in the playoff run. They had phenomenal chemistry. Even when Alshon couldn't come down with 1 that ended up in a pick.. it was unlucky, but Foles still felt comfortable making that same toss the entire game. That's all i'm trying to say.

 

I think most teams resign Evans for that kind of money even if it's an overpay. If they can afford it, they have a sure thing, and a WR with seemingly great intangibles. Not a top 5 WR (close though) but by no means is he not a top 10 receiver. So you're right, money doesn't determine a WR's exact ranking, but it's close and shows what the team is willing to pay in a free market, all just is situational really. I wouldn't call it a bad contract at all, the Bucs aren't a model franchise but I certainly would have resigned Evans if I was in their position.

 

It's like Falcons paying Matt Ryan the amount of money they did. They just have to do it, and making that decision to tie up so much money in certain units (QB and WR), is simply a matter of having a team identity, style of play that you are forced in due to the talent you drafted at some positions, talent you whiffed at in others. It's going to be the Bills likely tying up their money in the secondary for the future, consistently reinforcing it to be a difference making strength, and throwing the rest of their money at QB, front 7, whatever unit pans out well enough to establish a winning formula.