Report: Baker Mayfield not ready to compete with Tyrod Taylor

[billsfan89]

That's not surprising. People **** on Tyrod here because they think that he was terrible but in reality, Tyrod was a top 22 QB in the NFL. Tyrod did not turn the ball over and he made dynamic plays with his legs both contributing with rushing yards and keeping plays alive. Tyrod made a lot of overly conservative decisions but he also made a lot of good decisions. Tyrod has been best described as a QB who plays up or down to his surrounding talent. Great QB's make the talent around them better bad QB's cripple an offense. The QB's like Tyrod in the middle are a reflection of the talent around them. 

[The Red King]

It doesn't have to be one or the other.  Good lord.

 

I am getting sick of TT supporters thinking that anyone who doesn't support him must think he's terrible.  And I'm sick of TT detractors thinking anyone who says he isn't terrible believes he's an outstanding QB.  There is a middle ground and some people, like me, are there.  I think Tyrod has his positives and negatives.  I think he was a good QB for the Bills, but it was obvious last season the team finally outgrew him.  They finally needed more then he could provide.  I think he is a perfect fit in Cleveland right now.  His ability to not make mistakes provides a stability that, for the Browns, outweighs Tyrod's inability/unwillingness to throw deep.  Tyrod can take them to 4-6 wins which, after 1-15 and 0-16 would be quite well received.  By the time the team outgrows Tyrod, Mayfield will be ready to go.

 

I am just sick of the "If yer not for us, yer 'gainst us!" attitude here.  Not everyone is a TT supporter or detractor.

[GaryPinC]

6 hours ago, The Red King said:

It doesn't have to be one or the other.  Good lord.

 

I am getting sick of TT supporters thinking that anyone who doesn't support him must think he's terrible.  And I'm sick of TT detractors thinking anyone who says he isn't terrible believes he's an outstanding QB.  There is a middle ground and some people, like me, are there.  I think Tyrod has his positives and negatives.  I think he was a good QB for the Bills, but it was obvious last season the team finally outgrew him.  They finally needed more then he could provide.  I think he is a perfect fit in Cleveland right now.  His ability to not make mistakes provides a stability that, for the Browns, outweighs Tyrod's inability/unwillingness to throw deep.  Tyrod can take them to 4-6 wins which, after 1-15 and 0-16 would be quite well received.  By the time the team outgrows Tyrod, Mayfield will be ready to go.

 

I am just sick of the "If yer not for us, yer 'gainst us!" attitude here.  Not everyone is a TT supporter or detractor.

Stop making sense for most of us!  There's plenty who see TT as you do.  We also realize his long ball accuracy has really sucked the last 2 years and I no longer consider it a strength of his.

[billsredneck1]

19 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

If I'm Mayfield I'm just sitting on the bench just waiting for this guy to be fired.   Let Taylor win the starting QB job then watch the **** hit the fan. When the new coach is hired win the job and be the starter for 10 years.

it's gonna be fun watching landry and gordon complain about the ball not getting thrown enough....and if the idea is stack the box against tt, then balt., pitt and cincy could be a nightmare for tt to face.

 

so....my prediction is hue and tyrod are out by halloween and haley and baker take over.

Edited June 23, 2018 by billsredneck1

[billsredneck1]

7 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

That's not surprising. People **** on Tyrod here because they think that he was terrible but in reality, Tyrod was a top 22 QB in the NFL. Tyrod did not turn the ball over and he made dynamic plays with his legs both contributing with rushing yards and keeping plays alive. Tyrod made a lot of overly conservative decisions but he also made a lot of good decisions. Tyrod has been best described as a QB who plays up or down to his surrounding talent. Great QB's make the talent around them better bad QB's cripple an offense. The QB's like Tyrod in the middle are a reflection of the talent around them. 

tyrod is a reflection of a 6th rd. pick who was a backup and went to a team with no better option......thanks to the thankfully now gone gm.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

On 6/19/2018 at 3:10 AM, Rochesterfan said:

 

Is any part of that the fact the Browns were willing to trade a 2nd and a 3rd for AJ less than 6 months before?  More draft capital than they traded for TT.

 

 

Yet they passed on him all together when they could have just signed him without giving up anything. They believed the better option was giving up a third for Tyrod. 

44 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

so....my prediction is hue and tyrod are out by halloween and haley and baker take over.

 

I'll take that bet. No way is Hue out. Tyrod maybe. Could be injured or maybe Baker starts to play well in practice. But the Browns could literally start 1-5 and they would have like a 500% increase in winning percentage over the last two seasons. 

[Rochesterfan]

44 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Yet they passed on him all together when they could have just signed him without giving up anything. They believed the better option was giving up a third for Tyrod. 

 

I'll take that bet. No way is Hue out. Tyrod maybe. Could be injured or maybe Baker starts to play well in practice. But the Browns could literally start 1-5 and they would have like a 500% increase in winning percentage over the last two seasons. 

 

 

Or maybe they felt the could get TT and a one year deal rather than a multi year deal for AJ

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

Bad news for all the people saying Mayfield was one of the more pro ready QBs. If he can't beat out Tyrod that's a bad start.

[billsfan89]

4 hours ago, billsredneck1 said:

tyrod is a reflection of a 6th rd. pick who was a backup and went to a team with no better option......thanks to the thankfully now gone gm.

 

You have to be a moron to think that where a player is drafted is a reflection of how good or bad a player is. The Bills were trotted out some pretty terrible QB's for 15 years before Tyrod got here. A middling starter like Tyrod looked like a world beater compared to the EJ Manuels, Fitz (outside of that half-season where Fitz was good), Trent Edwards, JP Losmans and past his prime Drew Bledsoe (Outside of that half-season where Drew was good) of the world. 

 

So in 15 seasons the team got exactly 2 good half seasons of QB play and the rest of their play out of the QB position was pretty horrendous. So when a QB came along and was pretty decent for a few seasons it made him look like a world beater just because what came before him was such trash. 

 

I like Allen's long-term prospects better than I like Tyrod's so I am glad they moved on. But there will be some short-term pain at QB due to Tyrod being gone, we will be much worse off at QB in 2018 as AJ and Peterman aren't inspiring a lot of confidence and Allen is a bit of a longer-term project. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, buffalobloodfloridahome said:

Bad news for all the people saying Mayfield was one of the more pro ready QBs. If he can't beat out Tyrod that's a bad start.

 

....keep in mind we're talking HUGH here.......the alleged QB guru.......look at some of his QB decisions during their prolific 1-31 "run".......and why would you anoint TT the "defacto starter" this early?......hardly passes the "OBJECTIVE analysis test" IMO......and he's just stubborn "know it all enough" to stay the course with TT despite what Mayfield kid shows....on a more rational approach, our "McD Trio" has Allen working with the 3rd team and ZERO mention of anointing a starter yet......IMO, there's a right way and then there's HUGH.......SMH....

Edited June 23, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Behindenemylines]

16 hours ago, grb said:

 

Oh lord. Another hair-brained loony-tune theory to take the long detour around what's obvious. I won't point out how well Taylor played when he had a good (nowhere near elite) offensive cast. I won't point out the crap situation he had last year. Those facts are like the 500lb gorilla in the room : If you can't see the beast, odds-are you're trying very, very hard not to.

 

Let's look at the latest version of someone trying very, very hard :

• Bad receivers aren't bad receivers because a craftsmen doesn't blame his tools. First, bad receivers remain bad receivers regardless. Second, the "craftsman" of this analogy didn't blame his tools - Taylor didn't trash his receivers. Third, other people are permitted to notice the difficulty of creating a swiss watch with a dull axe - even if it's taboo for our "craftsman" to say so. Besides, this isn't just gibberish, it's also completely false. I've known craftsmen. No one is more demanding or critical about their tools than they are.
• "You can say all you want that he had nobody to pass the long ball to"......because he didn't. Full stop. That's why you can say it. His "deep threat" was Chicago-freakin-Bears reject Deonte Thompson.
• Bad receivers aren't bad receivers because (insert long incoherent quote starting with "These are all NFL pros"). Last season Taylor was sixteenth in the league by NFL passer rating. Just above him was Matt Ryan; just below were Dak Prescott, Andy Dalton, and Derek Carr. Want to make a case a quarterback under-performed with the assets given him? Maybe you should start with Taylor's four neighbors. They all had much, much more to work with than he did.
• "TT just refused to ruin the only truly marketable asset he had..."  Our poster doesn't even bother to explain what this drivel means. If I had to guess, it's something to do with Taylor throwing few interceptions. Anti-TT-types have this bizarre obsession with making his low interception rate into a Tragic Flaw of intelligence, ethics, fortitude, resolve or manliness. Yep. That may be stupid, sick or pathetic - perhaps all at once - but it's their obsession. Reminder : Taylor had the same low interception rate the 15 games he had Watkins and Woods on the field - when he had a 8.25 ypa and threw 27 tds.
• "This was so apparent in so many games when he flat out didn't attempt the passes to wide open receivers"..... Ah, yes - all those "open receivers" streaking wild and free in the mind of every Taylor hater. I'm convinced they dream of them at night, perhaps counting them as they flow by like so many sheep. I admit to sometimes having inappropriate daydreams about luscious Hollywood starlets. The anti-Taylor crowd? They fantasize about about all those "wide open receivers". So many !!! Why, you can almost reach out and touch them, they seem soooo real......   

Speaking of real : Bills receivers were at league bottom in getting separation. There's a stat for that. That's where they were. Back in the real world. Not in fantasies.

 

 

Wow your undying love of TT is truly something to behold.  No looney tune here but if I was TT's manager I'd be having that exact conversation with him.  You know your out in Buffalo so what do you have that makes you desirable.  Certainly not your YPG passing.   

 

The playoff game was a true showing of what level player he is.  Solid backup but nothing more.  

 

As for having nobody to throw to seems lots of great QBs make great receivers out of unknown talent.  TT doesnt do that because of his skill level. Plain and simple.

 

Also please feel free to read my list and comment on what I said not what you didn't read.

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

Wow your undying love of TT is truly something to behold.  No looney tune here but if I was TT's manager I'd be having that exact conversation with him.  You know your out in Buffalo so what do you have that makes you desirable.  Certainly not your YPG passing.   

 

The playoff game was a true showing of what level player he is.  Solid backup but nothing more.  

 

As for having nobody to throw to seems lots of great QBs make great receivers out of unknown talent.  TT doesnt do that because of his skill level. Plain and simple.

 

Also please feel free to read my list and comment on what I said not what you didn't read.

 

 

 

 

....my CLIFF NOTES assessment.....when your viable, threatening, "to be reckoned with " passing game, especially DOWNFIELD, defines a "post" or "fly" as a 6 yd out to a TE, somethin' ain't right......when your WR's are INACTIVE or in the "Witness Protection Program" EVERY Sunday with a better chance of catching a t-shirt from the stands versus EVER seeing the pigskin, somethin' ain't right...AGAIN.....not sure what I left out....

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

News flash:  TT is no longer a Buffalo Bill.

 

There is a Browns board somewhere for those wishing to talk about the strengths and weaknesses of TT.

 

When does the season start again??

[The Red King]

2 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

News flash:  TT is no longer a Buffalo Bill.

 

There is a Browns board somewhere for those wishing to talk about the strengths and weaknesses of TT.

 

When does the season start again??

 

News flash: The way to avoid reading about Tyrod is to simply avoid clicking on threads with Tyrod in the title.  That actually takes less effort then posting.

[billsredneck1]

6 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

You have to be a moron to think that where a player is drafted is a reflection of how good or bad a player is. The Bills were trotted out some pretty terrible QB's for 15 years before Tyrod got here. A middling starter like Tyrod looked like a world beater compared to the EJ Manuels, Fitz (outside of that half-season where Fitz was good), Trent Edwards, JP Losmans and past his prime Drew Bledsoe (Outside of that half-season where Drew was good) of the world. 

 

So in 15 seasons the team got exactly 2 good half seasons of QB play and the rest of their play out of the QB position was pretty horrendous. So when a QB came along and was pretty decent for a few seasons it made him look like a world beater just because what came before him was such trash. 

 

I like Allen's long-term prospects better than I like Tyrod's so I am glad they moved on. But there will be some short-term pain at QB due to Tyrod being gone, we will be much worse off at QB in 2018 as AJ and Peterman aren't inspiring a lot of confidence and Allen is a bit of a longer-term project. 

ok ....wait for it....this is where you tell me nate was a lowly 5th rd. pick .....right?

[transplantbillsfan]

12 hours ago, buffalobloodfloridahome said:

Bad news for all the people saying Mayfield was one of the more pro ready QBs. If he can't beat out Tyrod that's a bad start.

 

Why?

 

Tyrod has established himself as an NFL starting QB with 3 seasons starting under his belt. And his conservative, protect the football style of play is something I think you'll find historically that NFL coaches love. I remember listening to separate interviews with Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells, and when talking about what they said to their QBs--whoever they were--regarding turnovers, it was that "a punt is a good thing."

 

Mayfield is brand new to NFL style offenses. He still has a lot of learning, by his own admission. It says nothing about Mayfield really that he's really far behind a QB who just started 3 seasons and has been in the NFL for 7, going on 8.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Mayfield is brand new to NFL style offenses. He still has a lot of learning, by his own admission. It says nothing about Mayfield really that he's really far behind a QB who just started 3 seasons and has been in the NFL for 7, going on 8.

 

Someone a few years back pointed out here that in an "open competition" pre-season, a veteran will almost always beat out a rookie.  They know more about learning an NFL offense, they know more about recognizing what the defense is doing, they'll make more of the plays the coach expects them to make.

[billsfan89]

4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Why?

 

Tyrod has established himself as an NFL starting QB with 3 seasons starting under his belt. And his conservative, protect the football style of play is something I think you'll find historically that NFL coaches love. I remember listening to separate interviews with Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells, and when talking about what they said to their QBs--whoever they were--regarding turnovers, it was that "a punt is a good thing."

 

Mayfield is brand new to NFL style offenses. He still has a lot of learning, by his own admission. It says nothing about Mayfield really that he's really far behind a QB who just started 3 seasons and has been in the NFL for 7, going on 8.

 

Out of all the rookie QB's drafted in the first half of round 1 I would say that Tyrod is probably the highest caliber veteran starter the big 4 QB's out of the draft are competing for a spot against. I think Bradford you could argue but Bradford has that massive health issue and is coming off of a huge injury. 

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Someone a few years back pointed out here that in an "open competition" pre-season, a veteran will almost always beat out a rookie.  They know more about learning an NFL offense, they know more about recognizing what the defense is doing, they'll make more of the plays the coach expects them to make.

I don't know if it's that uncommon.  Just off the top of my head in the last 5 to 7 years I can think of open competitions where a veteran was expected to win the job.  Wilson (Flynn and T.Jackson), Tannehill (Garrard and Moore), Carr (Schaub), and Wentz (Bradford) come to mind.  

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Someone a few years back pointed out here that in an "open competition" pre-season, a veteran will almost always beat out a rookie.  They know more about learning an NFL offense, they know more about recognizing what the defense is doing, they'll make more of the plays the coach expects them to make.

 

Yep... and not just a veteran, but a veteran who's started bunches of games the way Taylor/Bradford/McCown all have ahead of the rookies their respective teams have drafted in Mayfield/Rosen/Darnold. Allen has that ahead of those guys. 

 

I believe it bodes extremely well for Allen that the "talk-of-the-town" in this QB competition is not, in fact, the veteran, but is instead the guy who mere months ago lacked the physical attributes to play starting QB in the NFL for any length of time.