Royale with Cheese Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That they do, but do you think a 7-9 or 9-7 record for the Browns with TT as QB and 200-220 ypg would be likely to change those plans? That would be hell of a swing up from 0-16. I think if they get to 5 wins, I would consider that a success after going winless last year.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 Just now, Royale with Cheese said: That would be hell of a swing up from 0-16. I think if they get to 5 wins, I would consider that a success after going winless last year. Yes, having talked to some Browns fans recently, >6 wins would apparently make them quite, quite happy. The question is would it change the franchise's QB plans wrt Taylor, who is a FA in 2019.
Just Joshin' Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said: TT may actually have the supporting cast he needs to be successful in Cleveland. Don't be surprised if he keeps that job until some of those guys want to get paid. Mayfield will start by the end of the season. The only question is when?
Royale with Cheese Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yes, having talked to some Browns fans recently, >6 wins would apparently make them quite, quite happy. The question is would it change the franchise's QB plans wrt Taylor, who is a FA in 2019. Taylor would have to have a Tom Brady type of year if they're going to not go with their #1 overall pick. 1
eball Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 14 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Cowherd is such a prick. So glad the only exposure I get to him is if something like this shows up on the board.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 14 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: (cowherd interview) LOL at Mayfield asking Cowherd if he played football past the HS level
YoloinOhio Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yes, having talked to some Browns fans recently, >6 wins would apparently make them quite, quite happy. The question is would it change the franchise's QB plans wrt Taylor, who is a FA in 2019. I think it would be highly unlikely for them to start Taylor past this year, regardless of how well he plays. It’s not common to sit the #1 overall pick even for the rookie season let alone past that. And the success rate of sitting even the 1st year is very low. I don’t think there has been anyone in the last 12 years or so who was drafted in the 1st rd let along #1 overall to sit the entire first year and then go on to gave a successful career. If Mahomes does it he will be the first in over a decade. Secondly, baker will already be 24 at the start of minicamp next season. He’s not some 21 year old baby like Allen and Darnold. It makes poor financial sense to eat into his rookie contract window just to keep starting a guy who is not your future, when he’s already old for a rookie. Plus they would need to pay Taylor, who would demand a big deal if he performs well enough to even consider something like this. I think it’s much more likely that, if he does happen to take them to the playoffs or close, that he goes the Case Keenum route in FA and the Browns thank him for leading them out of the abyss of 1-31 and then move on with their future. 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: That would be hell of a swing up from 0-16. I think if they get to 5 wins, I would consider that a success after going winless last year. It has happened, Jax went from 3-13 to afc championship but that was with a HC change, new DC, and a much, much better defense. And softer schedule. I can’t see it with the talent on the Browns d. They have some good pieces in the front 7 but the interior DL is concerning and the secondary was historically bad that year so they need to make a big jump with a rookie and unproven unproven guys back there. They also have a shaky OL and tough schedule even with it being a last place schedule. Edited June 22, 2018 by YoloinOhio
Royale with Cheese Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I think it would be highly unlikely for them to start Taylor past this year, regardless of how well he plays. It’s not common to sit the #1 overall pick even for the rookie season let alone past that. And the success rate of sitting even the 1st year is very low. I don’t think there has been anyone in the last 12 years or so who was drafted in the 1st rd let along #1 overall to sit the entire first year and then go on to gave a successful career. If Mahomes does it he will be the first in over a decade. Secondly, baker will already be 24 at the start of minicamp next season. He’s not some 21 year old baby like Allen and Darnold. It makes poor financial sense to eat into his rookie contract window just to keep starting a guy who is not your future, when he’s already old for a rookie. Plus they would need to pay Taylor, who would demand a big deal if he performs well enough to even consider something like this. I think it’s much more likely that, if he does happen to take them to the playoffs or close, that he goes the Case Keenum route in FA and the Browns thank him for leading them out of the abyss of 1-31 and then move on with their future. It has happened, Jax went from 3-13 to afc championship but that was with a HC change, new DC, and a much, much better defense. And softer schedule. I can’t see it with the talent on the Browns d. They have some good pieces in the front 7 but the interior DL is concerning and the secondary was historically bad that year so they need to make a big jump with a rookie and unproven unproven guys back there. They also have a shaky OL and tough schedule even with it being a last place schedule. Did a lack of consistent pass rush contribute to the secondary's problems? I don't really follow the Browns.
YoloinOhio Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Did a lack of consistent pass rush contribute to the secondary's problems? I don't really follow the Browns. It was mainly lack of talent and gregggg’s scheme. The scheme was mind bogglingly bad. He couldn’t evaluate his players within the scheme and refused to adapt. Edited June 22, 2018 by YoloinOhio 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Dalton said: Mayfield will start by the end of the season. The only question is when? ..last two Browns' seasons ended in September....just sayin'.......
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 If I'm Mayfield I'm just sitting on the bench just waiting for this guy to be fired. Let Taylor win the starting QB job then watch the **** hit the fan. When the new coach is hired win the job and be the starter for 10 years.
Behindenemylines Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 On 6/19/2018 at 11:52 PM, grb said: It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people yearn to believe, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? That seems so simple, but ask and you hear every kind of nonsense. Let's take this thread alone : OldTimeAFLGuy is still selling his shtick Taylor lacks the "skill set" to throw downfield. But inquire of the old-timer why TT had one of the best long-games in the NFL when the Bills fielded a deep threat - and then you get deafening silence. The Red King has this soulful theory it's just a "crisis of faith". Mercifully, this isn't a Garden of Gethsemane-style-thing, but lack of faith by Taylor in his receivers. About those receivers - rated one of the worst groups in the league last year - T.R.King has strangely little to say. But if faith is belief in the absence of evidence, then T.R.K. has it it spades. He believes (truly believes!!!) in all those wide receivers streaking free and clear every single play. Meanwhile, (back on home planet Earth) NetGenStats listed the Bills receivers as near league-bottom in getting separation. Of course faith can handle that fact, right? But PeterGriffin has the most elegantly constructed nonsense of all : The league "figured Taylor out" at the exact same rate his offensive cast deteriorated. Two independent phenomena occurring in perfect sync, but having absolutely no relationship. Try disproving something that nebulous, huh? It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people want to see, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? Or for that matter, why shouldn't he play the same way when put in the same situation? I think the simplest reason of all has been overlooked. TT knew he was gone after last year, before the season even started. The only thing he had was his stat sheet and his scrambling to market when he left. You can say all you want that he had nobody to pass the long ball to but its a poor crafstman that blames his tools. These are all NFL pros, so with an even balance of talent spread across any and all teams reciever to defender matchups werent always against us. TT just refused to ruin the only truly marketable asset he had. Again great teammate, great guy, great work ethic... but average at best skillset. THis was so apparent in so many games when he flat out didnt attempt the passes to wide open receivers. Maybe I cant blame the guy with millions of dollars on the line, but it made for really bad football. Needless to say the TT era is over, an new one begins and we will all see what happens with the Browns to prove or disprove our respective points. 1
Royale with Cheese Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ..last two Browns' seasons ended in September....just sayin'....... LOL....what's sad is it's true. I can't imagine being a Browns fan the last 3 seasons.... 4-44. How in the world is that possible? 1 1
BillsFan130 Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: LOL....what's sad is it's true. I can't imagine being a Browns fan the last 3 seasons.... 4-44. How in the world is that possible? A even better question is how in the world are they bringing Hue Jackson back with a 1 and 31 record lol 1
YoloinOhio Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 23 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: A even better question is how in the world are they bringing Hue Jackson back with a 1 and 31 record lol I’m pretty sure that Dorsey wanted to clean house but Haslam wanted to keep him
Royale with Cheese Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 11 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I’m pretty sure that Dorsey wanted to clean house but Haslam wanted to keep him Is Haslam wanting to keep him because they had such instability at the coaching position? 42 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: A even better question is how in the world are they bringing Hue Jackson back with a 1 and 31 record lol Who knows with the Browns. Just think about that, fans of the Browns have only seen 4 wins in the last 3 seasons....4! What if on the Browns message board, they had a poll with the best win in the last 3 seasons. They literally would only have 4 options. 1 1
YoloinOhio Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Is Haslam wanting to keep him because they had such instability at the coaching position? That may be part of it, but hue essentially won the power struggle with Sashi
BillsFan130 Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 23 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I’m pretty sure that Dorsey wanted to clean house but Haslam wanted to keep him Ya it seems that way. Very interesting decision to say the least
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, billsfan11 said: A even better question is how in the world are they bringing Hue Jackson back with a 1 and 31 record lol ....well, getting to 4 and 44 would be an improvement in the right direction, correct?.....imagine back to back oh fer 16 seasons?.... 1
grb Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Behindenemylines said: I think the simplest reason of all has been overlooked. TT knew he was gone after last year, before the season even started. The only thing he had was his stat sheet and his scrambling to market when he left. You can say all you want that he had nobody to pass the long ball to but its a poor crafstman that blames his tools. These are all NFL pros, so with an even balance of talent spread across any and all teams reciever to defender matchups werent always against us. TT just refused to ruin the only truly marketable asset he had. Again great teammate, great guy, great work ethic... but average at best skillset. THis was so apparent in so many games when he flat out didnt attempt the passes to wide open receivers. Maybe I cant blame the guy with millions of dollars on the line, but it made for really bad football. Needless to say the TT era is over, an new one begins and we will all see what happens with the Browns to prove or disprove our respective points. Oh lord. Another hair-brained loony-tune theory to take the long detour around what's obvious. I won't point out how well Taylor played when he had a good (nowhere near elite) offensive cast. I won't point out the crap situation he had last year. Those facts are like the 500lb gorilla in the room : If you can't see the beast, odds-are you're trying very, very hard not to. Let's look at the latest version of someone trying very, very hard : Bad receivers aren't bad receivers because a craftsmen doesn't blame his tools. First, bad receivers remain bad receivers regardless. Second, the "craftsman" of this analogy didn't blame his tools - Taylor didn't trash his receivers. Third, other people are permitted to notice the difficulty of creating a swiss watch with a dull axe - even if it's taboo for our "craftsman" to say so. Besides, this isn't just gibberish, it's also completely false. I've known craftsmen. No one is more demanding or critical about their tools than they are. "You can say all you want that he had nobody to pass the long ball to"......because he didn't. Full stop. That's why you can say it. His "deep threat" was Chicago-freakin-Bears reject Deonte Thompson. Bad receivers aren't bad receivers because (insert long incoherent quote starting with "These are all NFL pros"). Last season Taylor was sixteenth in the league by NFL passer rating. Just above him was Matt Ryan; just below were Dak Prescott, Andy Dalton, and Derek Carr. Want to make a case a quarterback under-performed with the assets given him? Maybe you should start with Taylor's four neighbors. They all had much, much more to work with than he did. "TT just refused to ruin the only truly marketable asset he had..." Our poster doesn't even bother to explain what this drivel means. If I had to guess, it's something to do with Taylor throwing few interceptions. Anti-TT-types have this bizarre obsession with making his low interception rate into a Tragic Flaw of intelligence, ethics, fortitude, resolve or manliness. Yep. That may be stupid, sick or pathetic - perhaps all at once - but it's their obsession. Reminder : Taylor had the same low interception rate the 15 games he had Watkins and Woods on the field - when he had a 8.25 ypa and threw 27 tds. "This was so apparent in so many games when he flat out didn't attempt the passes to wide open receivers"..... Ah, yes - all those "open receivers" streaking wild and free in the mind of every Taylor hater. I'm convinced they dream of them at night, perhaps counting them as they flow by like so many sheep. I admit to sometimes having inappropriate daydreams about luscious Hollywood starlets. The anti-Taylor crowd? They fantasize about about all those "wide open receivers". So many !!! Why, you can almost reach out and touch them, they seem soooo real...... Speaking of real : Bills receivers were at league bottom in getting separation. There's a stat for that. That's where they were. Back in the real world. Not in fantasies. Edited June 23, 2018 by grb 3
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