Bing Bong Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/22/2018 at 11:57 PM, The Red King said: It doesn't have to be one or the other. Good lord. I am getting sick of TT supporters thinking that anyone who doesn't support him must think he's terrible. And I'm sick of TT detractors thinking anyone who says he isn't terrible believes he's an outstanding QB. There is a middle ground and some people, like me, are there. I think Tyrod has his positives and negatives. I think he was a good QB for the Bills, but it was obvious last season the team finally outgrew him. They finally needed more then he could provide. I think he is a perfect fit in Cleveland right now. His ability to not make mistakes provides a stability that, for the Browns, outweighs Tyrod's inability/unwillingness to throw deep. Tyrod can take them to 4-6 wins which, after 1-15 and 0-16 would be quite well received. By the time the team outgrows Tyrod, Mayfield will be ready to go. I am just sick of the "If yer not for us, yer 'gainst us!" attitude here. Not everyone is a TT supporter or detractor. Honestly I don't see anybody really lamenting losing Tyrod, or fighting people on his behalf. I'm on the Tyrod side of the spectrum and I just don't want to hear he sucks. Is that too much to ask for when there are people saying Peterman's the destined one? Go Pete, go Bills and all, but have respect for NFL players that don't have a 1:3 TD to pick ratio.i'm not going to say matt Moore sucks, Derek Anderson sucks, they are great, get paid a lot of money for a reason lol.
Buffalo716 Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: If you're using the rest of the world to evaluate the level of talent in the NFL, then not a single player who plays in the NFL sucks. None really “suck” ... the worst dude in the NFL has more talent in his pinky than any football player here i was a damn good football player and I couldn’t even get a camp tryout after college its all about scheme fit and how much you want it... yea , u might dislike a player because you perceive him to “suck” but he doesn’t suck... everyone around him is just much better 1
Bing Bong Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: If you're using the rest of the world to evaluate the level of talent in the NFL, then not a single player who plays in the NFL sucks. Spot on. They don't. At all. they get paid a lot of money and if they last, get it for a long time. I'll set the bar that flameouts like Tebow suck sure.. Trent Richardson. Jeff Tuel. Give that label to the players that had no business getting drafted or signing as rookie free agents. It's a speculative league and I guarantee a lot of talent gets missed on, while others get a shot they don't deserve Edited June 25, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks
Royale with Cheese Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, Buffalo716 said: None really “suck” ... the worst dude in the NFL has more talent in his pinky than any football player here i was a damn good football player and I couldn’t even get a camp tryout after college its all about scheme fit and how much you want it... yea , u might dislike a player because you perceive him to “suck” but he doesn’t suck... everyone around him is just much better That's what I was trying to get at. Talent should be measured and compared among your peers. The guy that can't consistently stay on a 53 man, journey man is still a total bad ass compared to everyone in levels below him. Compared to the field of the NFL.....not a total bad ass. 1
Bing Bong Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, Royale with Cheese said: That's what I was trying to get at. Talent should be measured and compared among your peers. The guy that can't consistently stay on a 53 man, journey man is still a total bad ass compared to everyone in levels below him. Compared to the field of the NFL.....not a total bad ass. Tyrod CAN consistently stay on a roster.. he will for the rest of his career. this has been my whole point. Peterman's on borrowed time, but I'm rooting for him. Rooted for Tuel, rooted for Levi Brown. 1
John from Riverside Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Preach brutha. He'll be in the league as long as he wants to. As a bad to mediocre starter, or one of the best backups. His career is destined to be a shorter version of Fitzpatspicks .. which is awesome for a 6th round pick. I get triggered when people say he sucks. He's only one of the top 40 quarterbacks in the world. He must suck right. I cant stand it when ppl say he sucks either.....he is not a franchise guy but "suck" Just lazy broke thinking
Royale with Cheese Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Spot on. They don't. At all. they get paid a lot of money and if they last, get it for a long time. I'll set the bar that flameouts like Tebow suck sure.. Trent Richardson. Jeff Tuel. Give that label to the players that had no business getting drafted or signing as rookie free agents. It's a speculative league and I guarantee a lot of talent gets missed on, while others get a shot they don't deserve My HS QB was an All American, in every HS magazine before signing with Tennessee when the Vols were good. As a WR, I felt like he threw the ball on a rope. It hurt my hands catching his passes sometimes. What's crazy is his scouting report when he got to college....below average arm. How ******* hard do these NFL QB's throw the ball? 2 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Tyrod CAN consistently stay on a roster.. he will for the rest of his career. this has been my whole point. Peterman's on borrowed time, but I'm rooting for him. Rooted for Tuel, rooted for Levi Brown. I wasn't referencing Tyrod in my example....just any journeyman.
Buffalo716 Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: That's what I was trying to get at. Talent should be measured and compared among your peers. The guy that can't consistently stay on a 53 man, journey man is still a total bad ass compared to everyone in levels below him. Compared to the field of the NFL.....not a total bad ass. Completely agree... and that is why everybody picks apart QBs sooo much there are only 32 NFL starting QBs in the world... and how many are actually NFL caliber starters? 15-20? You can take the MVP QB from the Japanese league... he is probably a stud... but bring him over to America and he will fold quickly ... its all about being relative to your peers... and when you look drastically worse, they usually say you suck lol
Royale with Cheese Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Completely agree... and that is why everybody picks apart QBs sooo much there are only 32 NFL starting QBs in the world... and how many are actually NFL caliber starters? 15-20? You can take the MVP QB from the Japanese league... he is probably a stud... but bring him over to America and he will fold quickly ... its all about being relative to your peers... and when you look drastically worse, they usually say you suck lol Baseball is the same way. You've got guys in the Minor Leagues scouted from all over the world that can throw 100 mph or can hit 500 foot homeruns. Why are they still in the minors? They can't play consistently to be in the MLB. Edited June 25, 2018 by Royale with Cheese
Buffalo716 Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: Baseball is the same way. You've got guys in the Minor Leagues that can throw 100 mph or can hit 500 foot homeruns. Why are they still in the minors? They can't play consistently to be in the MLB. I bet. I couldn’t even imagine how hard it is playing in the show... 162 games in like 185 days the best players in the world at every position... you need consistency or you will never even get called up 12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: My HS QB was an All American, in every HS magazine before signing with Tennessee when the Vols were good. As a WR, I felt like he threw the ball on a rope. It hurt my hands catching his passes sometimes. What's crazy is his scouting report when he got to college....below average arm. How ******* hard do these NFL QB's throw the ball? I wasn't referencing Tyrod in my example....just any journeyman. That is crazy about your HS QB and I bet he could still zip it even though reports say he has a “weaker arm” That just shows you the QB talent in D1 football... To you he had a cannon, but to scouts they thought it was a bit weak lol thank God I never played full time WR became I hate catching heaters ?
The Red King Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 26 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Honestly I don't see anybody really lamenting losing Tyrod, or fighting people on his behalf. I'm on the Tyrod side of the spectrum and I just don't want to hear he sucks. Is that too much to ask for when there are people saying Peterman's the destined one? Go Pete, go Bills and all, but have respect for NFL players that don't have a 1:3 TD to pick ratio.i'm not going to say matt Moore sucks, Derek Anderson sucks, they are great, get paid a lot of money for a reason lol. There are a number of people who think Tyrod would have excelled here had Buffalo kept him and instead of Allen instead picked up some receivers...and those people insist Buffalo should have done just that. And you, yourself, note there are people here that claim he sucks. My post was simply frustration at getting blasted by both groups because I have a middle-ground view of him. Also, the Bills did not start Peterman because they thought he was better then TT. They started him because the team was in a tailspin and they thought Peterman might be better. They knew TT wasn't the long-term answer, and wanted to see what Peterman could do. They knew they had a decision to make in the offseason. And they wanted a good look at Peterman going into it. How many "Make Peterman the starter and don't draft a QB!" threads were there this offseason? Zero. How many would there have been had Peterman not gotten a start (aside from the Hoth game, which he looked good in)? They knew what TT could do, and knew it wouldn't be enough to win a playoff game. They didn't know what Peterman could do, and decided it was worth at least checking. At no point did they think Peterman was better. They simply didn't know, and I hate the mistaken assertion some make that think they did indeed believe that.
Royale with Cheese Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 19 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I bet. I couldn’t even imagine how hard it is playing in the show... 162 games in like 185 days the best players in the world at every position... you need consistency or you will never even get called up That is crazy about your HS QB and I bet he could still zip it even though reports say he has a “weaker arm” That just shows you the QB talent in D1 football... To you he had a cannon, but to scouts they thought it was a bit weak lol thank God I never played full time WR became I hate catching heaters ? I grew up with the guy and he was in a mans body when he was 13 years old. I bet if I caught passes from him now, I could probably feel more of an average arm. When I was catching passes from him in HS, I was probably 140 lbs. He was 6''4 and 215. I'm now not 140 lbs and 16 years old.
Buffalo716 Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: I grew up with the guy and he was in a mans body when he was 13 years old. I bet if I caught passes from him now, I could probably feel more of an average arm. When I was catching passes from him in HS, I was probably 140 lbs. He was 6''4 and 215. I'm now not 140 lbs and 16 years old. Hahahahah lmao my Freshmen year I was 5’8 137 pounds and I was starting on JV and got called up to varsity late in the year lol And I really felt like the small new guy in prison lmao 1
Rocky Landing Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Completely agree... and that is why everybody picks apart QBs sooo much there are only 32 NFL starting QBs in the world... and how many are actually NFL caliber starters? 15-20? You can take the MVP QB from the Japanese league... he is probably a stud... but bring him over to America and he will fold quickly ... its all about being relative to your peers... and when you look drastically worse, they usually say you suck lol Now that this thread has fallen onto pure semantics, I would nitpick the above, bolded statement. It is illogical. All 32 starting QBs are NFL caliber. The range that currently exists literally defines that caliber. Currently, NFL caliber would be defined as Brady*/Rogers, down to Paxton Lynch, or whomever is the crappiest, current starter. Taylor lands around the middle of that scale. 1
Buffalo716 Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: Now that this thread has fallen onto pure semantics, I would nitpick the above, bolded statement. It is illogical. All 32 starting QBs are NFL caliber. The range that currently exists literally defines that caliber. Currently, NFL caliber would be defined as Brady*/Rogers, down to Paxton Lynch, or whomever is the crappiest, current starter. Taylor lands around the middle of that scale. No, I said actually starting caliber. Meaning boarderline franchise QB and can take your team to the playoffs All 32 starting QBs are not of that caliber , though they are all NFL quality QBs
Success Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 It’s so hard to gauge Taylor. Especially last year - terrible OC, bad line, pretty mediocre receivers. And the year before, he ran a top10 offense. A lot of it with him is eye test stuff, which isn’t very reliable. It wouldn’t shock me if he did great in Cleveland.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 24 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: No, I said actually starting caliber. Meaning boarderline franchise QB and can take your team to the playoffs All 32 starting QBs are not of that caliber , though they are all NFL quality QBs ...if you think about it from the perspective that only 1,696 are good enough to earn NFL jobs despite the hundreds or thousands chasing their dream, hard to attach the "suck" moniker to any of them......of course they vary in skill set, ability, etc., but the 1,696 is a pretty elite group IMO.....
Buffalo716 Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...if you think about it from the perspective that only 1,696 are good enough to earn NFL jobs despite the hundreds or thousands chasing their dream, hard to attach the "suck" moniker to any of them......of course they vary in skill set, ability, etc., but the 1,696 is a pretty elite group IMO..... Thats why I don’t ever say player xyz sucks in the NFL... they just aren’t as good as their peers 8 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...if you think about it from the perspective that only 1,696 are good enough to earn NFL jobs despite the hundreds or thousands chasing their dream, hard to attach the "suck" moniker to any of them......of course they vary in skill set, ability, etc., but the 1,696 is a pretty elite group IMO..... People used to say Fitz sucked all the time and that is such a laughable statement lmao he has thrown TD passes for like 6 different NFL teams, won games with like 5 teams and has like 27,000 passing yards and 170 TDs in the NFL lmao Edited June 25, 2018 by Buffalo716 1 1
Bing Bong Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 4 hours ago, The Red King said: They knew what TT could do, and knew it wouldn't be enough to win a playoff game. They didn't know what Peterman could do, and decided it was worth at least checking. At no point did they think Peterman was better. They simply didn't know, and I hate the mistaken assertion some make that think they did indeed believe that. Eh Tyrod was good enough to get us in the playoffs. All I wanted for that year. And I think a FO would be out of it's mind if they hypothetically never played Peterman and didn't go quarterback next draft because "they just don't know how good this 5th rounder could be!". Or vice versa and play him "this 5th rounder isn't that bad! Let's just roll with him next year" Peterman would have had to have played insanely good. Even if he has a solid 200 yard 2 TD game, we lose.. whatever, we were gonna go QB unless an absolute miracle happened. I think it would have been the same situation if Peterman was average to good, they'd like him, and still bring in a 1st rounder to compete. You're probably right because I can't think of another explanation.. I just think it's stupid haha. We were going to do exactly what we did this off-season no matter what so why was the FO thinking anything regarding the offseason in the middle of the playoff hunt. If the explanation is they thought their 5th rounder could have been Tom Brady or Dak they were banking on an unprecedented assumption, betting on a 1 in a thousand's chance and jeapordizing the season. Like.. where was this support for Levi Brown, literally any quarterback drafted late for any team. Dolphins never threw in Fales until elimination, Broncos never threw in Chad Kelly over Semen or Paxton, Lions never threw in Brad Kaaya, Niners threw in CJ Beathard out of necessity, he played as well as a rook could, quarterbacked their first win, yet they still traded for Garoppolo! They weren't saying "well if he doesn't suck, we know we need absolutely no plan B!". It's unprecedented, teams hedge their bets. No late round rookie quarterback has started in a mid season switch for a 500+ team ever, barring injury necessity. I want to believe Peterman was crushing it in practice and then lost his swagger after the Chargers game. That the coaches were thinking about best chance of making the playoffs not "hmm we might not have to go QB in the draft.. this just might work". 1
Bing Bong Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: Thats why I don’t ever say player xyz sucks in the NFL... they just aren’t as good as their peers People used to say Fitz sucked all the time and that is such a laughable statement lmao he has thrown TD passes for like 6 different NFL teams, won games with like 5 teams and has like 27,000 passing yards and 170 TDs in the NFL lmao He's passed for the 62nd most yards in NFL history thus far. Like.. set your bar lower folks, there have been hundreds of quartebacks drafted ahead of him that haven't even sniffed more than 2 or 3 seasons.
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