Saxum Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said: I’m glad none of my conversations get out on Twitter. I’m sure I’d have mean looking people at my door within seconds. Of course. Twitter is for twits. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/23/sports/the-athletic-newspapers.html Newspapers are a classic example of a bundle. Subscribers might read just one section, but their subscription gets them the entire paper. Mather and Hansmann believe that sports is an undervalued part of that bundle, and that there are tens of thousands of sports fans in each city who don’t care about the other sections, and would rather jettison their subscription and pay for The Athletic instead Frankly I do not care about anything but Football, certainly not enough to pay for it. Like the newspapers they are trying to take business from The Athletic is a bundle and I do not want entire bundle. Maybe in Fall I might be willing to pay for 4-6 issues but not right now. .
BuffaloRush Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 37 minutes ago, Acantha said: For me, it's not so much about specifically getting $40 value out of the subscription (how would you even judge that?), but supporting the journalists that take pride in their work and offer a good product. There were at least a few members here that were posting about how they couldn't understand why people would complain about spending a few bucks a month for BN. Personally, I'll save my support and clicks for people who actually seem to give a **** about their jobs. Hopefully that support has some small impact on the level of writing that these news agencies are hiring for. Hard to say how much opinions like mine contributed to the BN shakeup, but I hope that situation and a successful transition for writers like Fairburn are slowly moving the needle in the right direction. Of course, that's also why I'm a bit disappointed that TG is getting lumped in with the others. He's a good writer, but if I had a choice to somehow not pay for his stuff while supporting the others, i would. BTW, while I was considering the subscription to the Athletic (reviewed their website), I got an ad on Facebook for 50% off (no T-shirt), so I went ahead and purchased one year for $30. Cool im going to wait and see. At this point, Fairburn, Graham and the rest of The Athletic isn’t enough to get me to subscribe with so much free content, but if they add more I’d certainly be open
notwoz Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 Truth be told, I've thought Tim Graham's writing abilities were overrated. Really, if I want "literature," I'll go to the library. If I want to know who's doing well in training camp or who came down with a gimpy leg, then I'll go to the local newspaper. During the season I want to read what happened during games and why. And while you're at it, get a few juicy quotes. I don't need to waste $40 to read that information. I subscribe to the BN for more than sports, so all I am asking for are some competent reporters who provide the day's news and not columnists with inflated egos. So I guess it's unlikely that I'll ever become an Athletic supporter.
FLFan Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said: I can respect that but I have a different view. At this point, I know I wouldn’t get the $40 out of the subscription. I don’t spend a lot of time reading online articles to get value out of that. Also, does Fairburn or Graham offer enough that other journalists covering the Bills don’t? I do read on-line reporting of the Bills and Sabres daily, as well as other sports and team, although much of it is bad. I feel like I could value out of it, but to each his own. In the case of Fairburn, absolutely yes. He had become a go to reporter for me out of the Syracuse outlet, doing a far better job than the BN guys or the dolts in Rochester. Graham, the jury is out on. They also have John Vogel covering the Sabres who is pretty good, and Kris Baker writing on the Sabres who is outstanding in analysis. like I said, worth a shot for $40 for the year. Edited June 18, 2018 by MDFan
BUFFALOKIE Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 I am still fairly thin, but my athleticism has fallon way off the pre 40 days. How much does it cost? Can I be athletic without exercising too much?
DrDawkinstein Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said: Cool im going to wait and see. At this point, Fairburn, Graham and the rest of The Athletic isn’t enough to get me to subscribe with so much free content, but if they add more I’d certainly be open This is where Im at too. I dont currently plan on subscribing, but if reviews stay positive and they put out quality content, I'll jump aboard.
4_kidd_4 Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 31 minutes ago, BUFFALOKIE said: I am still fairly thin, but my athleticism has fallon way off the pre 40 days. How much does it cost? Can I be athletic without exercising too much? wat
The Dean Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 8 hours ago, Gugny said: What's Timmah's record for most days between being a douche on Twitter? If I was basing my opinion of Graham on his Twitter posts, I'd really think TG was a complete idiot. I don't know what comes over otherwise seemingly reasonable people when they post on social media--particularly Twitter. I can never figure out why they post those impulsive and petty comments. It doesn't reflect well on them, IMO. With that said, in his early days of covering the Bills, I thought TG was fairly interesting, even if I didn't agree with him on all occasions. I try very hard to make sure agreeing with someone isn't the sole, or even major reason, I like/respect a particular reporter. But when he joined the BN, I thought his whole attitude/style changed. Sure he has some nice long form pieces, and I really appreciate that. But he has become very snippy toward any sort of criticism. That last attack against Harrington (who I have no knowledge of, whatsoever) was totally repugnant, IMO. Everyone seems to believe that was a private message he reposted, and I have to say I agree with those who think it is completely repellent, if that is indeed the case. So at least for the time being I don't think I will be supporting Athletic. There are far too many competitive outlets, which are free (with advertising) to consume. Is the Athletic advertising free? That might make a small difference. But for the time being, I'll refrain, unless I read pieces that seem worth the expense. There is always a way to sample for free, and I'll find a way. I have no objection to paying a bit, if it's worth it. But in this age of the Internet, I am not happy about a both paid and advertising supported, site. If I pay I should be free of all advertising. I know that's an old idea, but I'm an old-school media guy, and that's the way I like it. 2
YoloinOhio Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, The Dean said: If I was basing my opinion of Graham on his Twitter posts, I'd really think TG was a complete idiot. I don't know what comes over otherwise seemingly reasonable people when they post on social media--particularly Twitter. I can never figure out why they post those impulsive and petty comments. It doesn't reflect well on them, IMO. With that said, in his early days of covering the Bills, I thought TG was fairly interesting, even if I didn't agree with him on all occasions. I try very hard to make sure agreeing with someone isn't the sole, or even major reason, I like/respect a particular reporter. But when he joined the BN, I thought his whole attitude/style changed. Sure he has some nice long form pieces, and I really appreciate that. But he has become very snippy toward any sort of criticism. That last attack against Harrington (who I have no knowledge of, whatsoever) was totally repugnant, IMO. Everyone seems to believe that was a private message he reposted, and I have to say I agree with those who think it is completely repellent, if that is indeed the case. So at least for the time being I don't think I will be supporting Athletic. There are far too many competitive outlets, which are free (with advertising) to consume. Is the Athletic advertising free? That might make a small difference. But for the time being, I'll refrain, unless I read pieces that seem worth the expense. There is always a way to sample for free, and I'll find a way. I have no objection to paying a bit, if it's worth it. But in this age of the Internet, I am not happy about a both paid and advertising supported, site. If I pay I should be free of all advertising. I know that's an old idea, but I'm an old-school media guy, and that's the way I like it. It is ad-free
BuffaloRush Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, The Dean said: If I was basing my opinion of Graham on his Twitter posts, I'd really think TG was a complete idiot. I don't know what comes over otherwise seemingly reasonable people when they post on social media--particularly Twitter. I can never figure out why they post those impulsive and petty comments. It doesn't reflect well on them, IMO. With that said, in his early days of covering the Bills, I thought TG was fairly interesting, even if I didn't agree with him on all occasions. I try very hard to make sure agreeing with someone isn't the sole, or even major reason, I like/respect a particular reporter. But when he joined the BN, I thought his whole attitude/style changed. Sure he has some nice long form pieces, and I really appreciate that. But he has become very snippy toward any sort of criticism. That last attack against Harrington (who I have no knowledge of, whatsoever) was totally repugnant, IMO. Everyone seems to believe that was a private message he reposted, and I have to say I agree with those who think it is completely repellent, if that is indeed the case. So at least for the time being I don't think I will be supporting Athletic. There are far too many competitive outlets, which are free (with advertising) to consume. Is the Athletic advertising free? That might make a small difference. But for the time being, I'll refrain, unless I read pieces that seem worth the expense. There is always a way to sample for free, and I'll find a way. I have no objection to paying a bit, if it's worth it. But in this age of the Internet, I am not happy about a both paid and advertising supported, site. If I pay I should be free of all advertising. I know that's an old idea, but I'm an old-school media guy, and that's the way I like it. It seems that Tim goes way too far on some of his Twitter attacks. In his defense, he typically only goes after people who write something nasty to him. Still I can see where it comes off bad for a BN employee to act that way, as opposed to simply ignoring it like most writers do. With you on The Athletic. At this point, it just doesn’t seem to be worth it. But maybe I will change my mind. We’ll see
The Dean Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: It is ad-free Thanks.
Gugny Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, The Dean said: If I was basing my opinion of Graham on his Twitter posts, I'd really think TG was a complete idiot. I don't know what comes over otherwise seemingly reasonable people when they post on social media--particularly Twitter. I can never figure out why they post those impulsive and petty comments. It doesn't reflect well on them, IMO. I think it's a good look into who a person really is in real-life conversation situations. They're not writing a column, sleeping on it, having it proofed by someone, etc. I don't think anyone is saying that Timmy is a bad writer. From what I've seen, he's incapable of having an adult conversation with anyone who disagrees with him. In my book, that makes him a jerk. He seems otherwise reasonable in his columns because he has a filter and time between when he writes and when his work is published. Social media doesn't afford him those luxuries and we've seen the result ... on this site and on social media outlets. That's the real person. A big baby when someone says, "sorry, Timmy; I disagree." He has his thumbs and fingers, his computer/phone .. and nothing else between his real thoughts and the public. And time after time, he's shown who, and what, he really is. I wouldn't pay one penny per lifetime to support that prick. 1
PromoTheRobot Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 26 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: It is ad-free For now. I can't see them staying that way.
The Dean Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 43 minutes ago, Gugny said: I think it's a good look into who a person really is in real-life conversation situations. They're not writing a column, sleeping on it, having it proofed by someone, etc. I don't think anyone is saying that Timmy is a bad writer. From what I've seen, he's incapable of having an adult conversation with anyone who disagrees with him. In my book, that makes him a jerk. He seems otherwise reasonable in his columns because he has a filter and time between when he writes and when his work is published. Social media doesn't afford him those luxuries and we've seen the result ... on this site and on social media outlets. That's the real person. A big baby when someone says, "sorry, Timmy; I disagree." He has his thumbs and fingers, his computer/phone .. and nothing else between his real thoughts and the public. And time after time, he's shown who, and what, he really is. I wouldn't pay one penny per lifetime to support that prick. I have to say, I mostly agree with your summary. But I met Tim a time or two, and he seemed like a genuinely nice guy. I can't say that means I don't think his tweets are his "real self", but I get what you are saying. That seems to be his unfiltered, knee-jerk self. I have a knee-jerk side, too. I used to demonstrate it here, from time to time. It's one of the reasons I don't post too often, anymore. Because that's not really me. It is, in a way. And to those that know me, it's my "Mr Cruel" side. Honestly, it's mostly for humor, but it can come off as pretty brutal, to those who don't really know me. That's also one of the reasons (but a small one) I don't have a Twitter account----or a gun. My basic knee-jerk self can be a bit of an !@#$. No need for me to add fuel to the fire. 1 1
beerme1 Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Estro said: No I do not. I refuse to pay for content. There ar4 different methods of making money off of a high traffic sports website and IMO the ones that have adopted a subscription model like the athletic will not work. I much prefer a model like the Ringer, which has advertisements. As far as Tim Graham I had to unfollow him on Twitter years ago because he was such a smart ass. I don't know the man at all but the way he comes across on Twitter was, IMO, not only petty but embarrassing. I like Fairburn's podcast with Joe B.....and I'll just continue to listen to that for free. If they decide to charge for that eventually I'll listen to the next guy who fills the non subscription model vacuum. I signed up today and in part because it's ad free. 5 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: I can respect that but I have a different view. At this point, I know I wouldn’t get the $40 out of the subscription. I don’t spend a lot of time reading online articles to get value out of that. Also, does Fairburn or Graham offer enough that other journalists covering the Bills don’t? The biggest reason for me signing up was Sabres coverage by John Vogl. He has been covering the team a long time and was the best writer at the News. Fairburn is a bonus. Timmah is a simply a dick.He does do some decent work though from time to time. His post showing the Harrington thing well that's super douchey. Makes me wonder how toxic the sports desk was at TBN. I'll try it and see for a year. Their app is actually pretty damn impressive.
bbb Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 2 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: It seems that Tim goes way too far on some of his Twitter attacks. In his defense, he typically only goes after people who write something nasty to him. Like Harrington, Carucci, and Biscuit? 1
Buffalo Barbarian Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 13 hours ago, JGMcD2 said: I saw today that Tim Graham and Matthew Fairburn will be covering the Bills on The Athletic. I have to say, what The Athletic is doing is amazing. They’re poaching all of the top talent, while other sports reporting entities seem to be faltering. They’re almost forcing folks who are interested in good sports journalism to subscribe, I’m very close myself. I’ve noticed all of the big time names they’ve brought in on the MLB side, and now they’ve got arguably the two best Bills writers in one place. What does everyone else think? Never heard of it
bills522 Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 Signed up for the national offer today ($30/yr, no shirt) and don't think I'll be disappointed..especially come training camp/regular season, really like Fairburn, Vogl, Baker, and appreciate Turner's work. Graham's...well, Graham, his work is usually great but I'm signing up more for the other people mentioned before...we'll see if it's worth while
plenzmd1 Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 4 hours ago, bills522 said: Signed up for the national offer today ($30/yr, no shirt) and don't think I'll be disappointed..especially come training camp/regular season, really like Fairburn, Vogl, Baker, and appreciate Turner's work. Graham's...well, Graham, his work is usually great but I'm signing up more for the other people mentioned before...we'll see if it's worth while at $2:50/month...can there really be a case made that it is not worthwhile? I read Fairburns article/interview with Beane today..my monthly investment made whole on just one piece. I am truly staggered by the number of people who sweat $3.00 here..and i am sure all guys who drive cars way nicer than mine. 1
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