_Underscore_ Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 I don’t agree about the "competitive spirit" thing. Maybe it’s just me, but the thing I like best about Peterman is his resilience. Get cut from Tennessee and keep plugging at Pitt. Throw interceptions at SD and keep plugging in the snow. My impression is that he is happy to play when called on, but humble enough to be genuinely be happy to support the starter when it’s his time to hold a clipboard. He doesn’t pout. Maybe it’s a faith thing for him. As Reich was to Kelly, Peterman can be to Allen. A real team guy – a process guy. Call me naïve, but I believe Peterman wants to play well AND wants Allen to do well too. I don't think it's too far fetched to believe Peterman could knowingly be content to play a role in the team rather than only be a star. Incidentally, I don’t get that feel from AJM. (just my opinion)
Lfod Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, BurpleBull said: Not denying that he was pressured, I pointed that out without the help of Cover 1 in one of my earlier posts. This likely helped lend weight to the perception that Allen was fighting for his life every play, while playing with a lineup completely consisting of third string O-linemen serving as his protection---neither of which were true. As far as "confirmation bias in action": Allen narrowly avoided a sack from extreme pressure from a blitz package twice, pulled down and ran to avoid what could've turned into a coverage sack once from what I saw, and was sacked because of Keith Ford, the RB, not the O-line. Every other play he was afforded adequate to good (in some cases very good) pass protection; the pass protection was not comparable to the O-line he played behind at Wyoming, as was suggested. If there is anything I would clear up, it is that Allen played 'hero ball' and that he had sufficient time to make ANY throw, more accurately, he had sufficient time to make a positive play from the pocket the majority of his snaps, pressured or not; Allen chose to forgo the easier completion in favor of the more difficult, contested completion many times. Peterman didn't face a strong pass rush in this game, but of what he did face, he negated it with quick completions. Peterman completed both of his downfield attempts, the TD to Benjamin and the would-have been TD to Streater, which was called back on an offensive interference penalty. McCarron missed on both of his deep shots downfield, one to Brandon Reilly and the other to Streater (?). Allen "should have completed" three bombs, but at least one of them, he threw five yards out of bounds along the sideline. Of Allen's 19 pass attempts, not one demonstrated touch. Confirmation bias against Peterman, in favor of Josh Allen, I know you see it...it's impossible to miss. It's exactly what it is. I have no trouble seeing it at all as I read this thread. It almost has the feel of crusading when people excuse away Petermans performance and make excuses for Josh Allen. It's that simple, dismiss then make excuses. It's not what is happening in reality. Josh Allen is the project. Coach McDermott is bringing him along at a good pace. Get his feet wet playing 3rd string in a preseason game. Great Josh Allen proved a lot in that game. Now you can involve Josh Allen more. I don't think that justified making him the instant starter. Don't forget it was Nate Peterman that was almost perfect in his performance. One poorly thrown ball out of 10 perfect strikes. If anyone is earning that start role it's Nate Peterman guys. Quit dismissing his perfect Peterman performance. I think Coach McDermott is very intelligent and I believe he will hedge his bets. I doubt he goes all in starting Allen like the people on this board want. Although I think Josh Allen's performance has impressed McDermott and I think Coach will add more weight now. I think Josh Allen is the future. I think he has earned the right to carry more weight but right now like Burple says. This is Petermans team right now and will be all season until the Bills are out and Coach has lost faith in Peterman completely. Don't worry though because AJMcCarron isn't going to cut it and chances are Peterman will sit out a game or two and Josh Allen will be his backup. When this happens even Peterman haters will be wishing him a speedy recovery when Josh Allen hits the field still an unfinished product. Edited August 15, 2018 by Lfod
Wily Dog Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 I have never said that Allen will start because of his draft status, he will start when he is ready , meaning that McBeane and Daboll are convinced he is ready. The only thing that could derail this is injury either to Peterman or Allen.
Lfod Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Wily Dog said: I have never said that Allen will start because of his draft status, he will start when he is ready , meaning that McBeane and Daboll are convinced he is ready. The only thing that could derail this is injury either to Peterman or Allen. I think everyone having thier favorites muddied the waters. As if right now I give Peterman the nod to start. That is just my personal opinion. I don't want to downplay Josh Allen to prop my guy up. I can definitely acknowledge that Josh Allen showed some things to get excited about. Does that make him a perfectly oiled football machine just yet? I dunno I always had the thought that it might take some grooming to adjust to the NFL from college. Some guys are more natural then others. Josh Allen made plays. I'm excited asbout that. First round pick bust is not a concern with Josh Allen so much anymore right? So I can think my QB Peterman was almost if not perfect in his showing and say Josh Allen still fought hard and wowed me as well as a potential future QB when he is more fine tuned. Trust me, Josh Allen can win the job. If he goes out with the starters and has an almost perfect showing in preseason I think I would be whistling a different tune. Edited August 15, 2018 by Lfod
Alphadawg7 Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, billsredneck1 said: i agree...and nothing against ajm. i think i read here earlier that nate went 12-15 and 3 tds. in practice. these are the stats i wanna see from our starter. the reason i give the nod over ajm is that i see nate as being the kind of guy that can put together an 80 yd. 7 or 8 for 10 with a score in roughly 2 mins. t.o.p. Why do you think that about NP? Not one thing NP has shown on tape suggests that. In fact, the biggest risk of NP is how long it takes for the ball to get there. If he isnt perfect on his throws they will be timed and picked off. He also throws poorly under duress. People are WAY over valuing one drive in the first preseason game playing against some starters who are playing a weak and vanilla defense. They are simultaneously ignoring every other flaw he has demonstrated over his career thus far. He also made a poor pass, that was late, high, and behind Ivory leading to a turnover. Again, if he isnt perfect he doesnt have the physical gifts to make up for it. So while I am sure he will lay some nice passes in here or there, he is also a high risk to turn the ball over. If he is late on an outside throw, then hello pick 6 because he won't be able to zip it in there. He has a very low ceiling IMO where as AJM has more of a skill set to have a higher ceiling. But in the end...who really cares. This is Josh Allens team...these two guys are just playing til Allen takes their job. So I dont get the obsession between NP and AJM right now, its almost irrelevant as they are not our future. At best, they are trade bait if they can just be ok out there. Edited August 15, 2018 by Alphadawg7 1
GoBills808 Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 2 hours ago, BurpleBull said: I think well of Peterman obviously, but how does the comment show 'blind love' for Peterman? What are you even suggesting about Peterman and/or Allen with that comment? I think it's fair to want anything that Allen gets to be earned and not simply handed to him by reason of his throwing power and draft status; I think he needs to show and prove that he's fit for the starting position just as anyone else on the roster would have to. There's one side of Bills' fans that believe Allen should be held out until deemed ready to perform. There's another that you would have to logically believe, feels Allen most definitely should be given full control by next season regardless of anything, if he isn't thrust into the starting role this year, trial by fire, as they wish. Just addressing the latter, if either QB, McCarron or Peterman, performed admirably this season as starter, but the starting duty was handed to Allen the next, he failed to play up to expectations that season, and McCarron or Peterman were still viable options, waiting in the wings, as Allen struggled through year three, then I believe you'd have to have the courage to go away from him, even if just to get the ship righted for that season. In short, the success of the team should not be sacrificed for the sake of getting Josh Allen on the field. This seems to be an idea that many Bills' fans simply toss to the side. This is Grade A trolling. Belongs in the Troll of Fame. 2
Lfod Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Why do you think that about NP? Not one thing NP has shown on tape suggests that. In fact, the biggest risk of NP is how long it takes for the ball to get there. If he isnt perfect on his throws they will be timed and picked off. He also throws poorly under duress. People are WAY over valuing one drive in the first preseason game playing against some starters who are playing a weak and vanilla defense. They are simultaneously ignoring every other flaw he has demonstrated over his career thus far. He also made a poor pass, that was late, high, and behind Ivory leading to a turnover. Again, if he isnt perfect he doesnt have the physical gifts to make up for it. So while I am sure he will lay some nice passes in here or there, he is also a high risk to turn the ball over. If he is late on an outside throw, then hello pick 6 because he won't be able to zip it in there. He has a very low ceiling IMO where as AJM has more of a skill set to have a higher ceiling. But in the end...who really cares. This is Josh Allens team...these two guys are just playing til Allen takes their job. So I dont get the obsession between NP and AJM right now, its almost irrelevant as they are not our future. At best, they are trade bait if they can just be ok out there. I don't dismiss your concerns. I have them myself. It was a big part of Petermans debut into the NFL. 5 interceptions is a tattoo on his NFL career. A hard stain to wash off. I agree Nate was a big part of his interception problem. You are correct. If he starts I do believe he will throw interceptions during the season. It's a big part of his play style. He drop back and he fires and sometimes those passes lack some strength. The only difference is that I believe he has improved some. He strung together a couple of very nice drives in preseason all passing. Yes he threw the interception. It dissapointed me. I made sure to see it on video a few times. I can't help but to be intrigued by the way he reads the field and is able to connect. It's a special trait that I think Coach is also attracted to. Actually to me it's just another Tyrod Taylor situation. You have a QB that has a special trait. A skill that can't be denied. You take a shot on that guy hoping everything else falls into play. The only problem with guys like this is that you do need to game plan for matchups and flaws. A big weakness I now lay solely at Rick Dennisons feet. 1
BurpleBull Posted August 15, 2018 Author Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Lfod said: It's exactly what it is. I have no trouble seeing it at all as I read this thread. It almost has the feel of crusading when people excuse away Petermans performance and make excuses for Josh Allen. It's that simple, dismiss then make excuses. It's not what is happening in reality. Josh Allen is the project. Coach McDermott is bringing him along at a good pace. Get his feet wet playing 3rd string in a preseason game. Great Josh Allen proved a lot in that game. Now you can involve Josh Allen more. I don't think that justified making him the instant starter. Don't forget it was Nate Peterman that was almost perfect in his performance. One poorly thrown ball out of 10 perfect strikes. If anyone is earning that start role it's Nate Peterman guys. Quit dismissing his perfect Peterman performance. I think Coach McDermott is very intelligent and I believe he will hedge his bets. I doubt he goes all in starting Allen like the people on this board want. Although I think Josh Allen's performance has impressed McDermott and I think Coach will add more weight now. I think Josh Allen is the future. I think he has earned the right to carry more weight but right now like Burple says. This is Petermans team right now and will be all season until the Bills are out and Coach has lost faith in Peterman completely. Don't worry though because AJMcCarron isn't going to cut it and chances are Peterman will sit out a game or two and Josh Allen will be his backup. When this happens even Peterman haters will be wishing him a speedy recovery when Josh Allen hits the field still an unfinished product. The bolded. Such a simple statement, yet holds so much weight in my opinion. I think the mini camp and training camp performances, mainly versus the third team defense, have caused people to forget that he was considered an unrefined project out of college, not a ready-made starting QB out of the box. As the excitement grows for Allen, you get more and more posts that talk up Allen and downplay the other QB's regardless of facts. Great post. Edited August 15, 2018 by BurpleBull
keepthefaith Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 36 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: He also made a poor pass, that was late, high, and behind Ivory leading to a turnover. Again, if he isnt perfect he doesnt have the physical gifts to make up for it. So while I am sure he will lay some nice passes in here or there, he is also a high risk to turn the ball over. If he is late on an outside throw, then hello pick 6 because he won't be able to zip it in there. He has a very low ceiling IMO where as AJM has more of a skill set to have a higher ceiling. But in the end...who really cares. This is Josh Allens team...these two guys are just playing til Allen takes their job. So I dont get the obsession between NP and AJM right now, its almost irrelevant as they are not our future. At best, they are trade bait if they can just be ok out there. The arm's a concern but McCarron's is very similar and at least in what we saw the other night AJ looked a bit slower in making the decision to throw. Nate looks like the slightly better athlete/runner than AJ to me. Ceiling of these two is probably more similar. Did anyone look closely at the film of Nate from the Carolina game and see that he seemed in such a hurry to make some throws that he was still almost back peddling when he started the throwing motion? Seems like that is something to be corrected and may help his velocity. He's a young dude, just 24. He can still improve, but yeah this is Allen's team when he shows he's ready.
Figster Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: The arm's a concern but McCarron's is very similar and at least in what we saw the other night AJ looked a bit slower in making the decision to throw. Nate looks like the slightly better athlete/runner than AJ to me. Ceiling of these two is probably more similar. Did anyone look closely at the film of Nate from the Carolina game and see that he seemed in such a hurry to make some throws that he was still almost back peddling when he started the throwing motion? Seems like that is something to be corrected and may help his velocity. He's a young dude, just 24. He can still improve, but yeah this is Allen's team when he shows he's ready. Is it slower decision making by McCarron or a QB going through his progressions?
Kirby Jackson Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) Again, it is a just a matter of time. I know that I sound like a broken record but this is Allen’s team. It’s a matter of when not if. He is the highest selected QB in team history. They used a 1st and 2 2nds to trade up for him. He will be playing whenever they feel he’s ready. They are certainly trying to get a better idea by sliding him up to the 2nd unit. That was a good decision for his development. He needs to play with, and against, NFL players. If he plays this week like he did last week I would think that he’s starting sooner than later. He can just do things that very, very few QBs can do. Allen will take some lumps as a rookie (just like Wentz did) but the hope is that the lightbulb goes off (like it did for Wentz). Allen has superstar potential. I always thought that they’d go for a higher floor, lower ceiling prospect (Rosen or Mayfield) but they did the opposite. Edited August 15, 2018 by Kirby Jackson 1
Mat68 Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Lfod said: I don't dismiss your concerns. I have them myself. It was a big part of Petermans debut into the NFL. 5 interceptions is a tattoo on his NFL career. A hard stain to wash off. I agree Nate was a big part of his interception problem. You are correct. If he starts I do believe he will throw interceptions during the season. It's a big part of his play style. He drop back and he fires and sometimes those passes lack some strength. The only difference is that I believe he has improved some. He strung together a couple of very nice drives in preseason all passing. Yes he threw the interception. It dissapointed me. I made sure to see it on video a few times. I can't help but to be intrigued by the way he reads the field and is able to connect. It's a special trait that I think Coach is also attracted to. Actually to me it's just another Tyrod Taylor situation. You have a QB that has a special trait. A skill that can't be denied. You take a shot on that guy hoping everything else falls into play. The only problem with guys like this is that you do need to game plan for matchups and flaws. A big weakness I now lay solely at Rick Dennisons feet. If your not concerned with Ints why not just go with Allen. He will have some poor Ints but will have some incredible passes as well.
Alphadawg7 Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Lfod said: I don't dismiss your concerns. I have them myself. It was a big part of Petermans debut into the NFL. 5 interceptions is a tattoo on his NFL career. A hard stain to wash off. I agree Nate was a big part of his interception problem. You are correct. If he starts I do believe he will throw interceptions during the season. It's a big part of his play style. He drop back and he fires and sometimes those passes lack some strength. The only difference is that I believe he has improved some. He strung together a couple of very nice drives in preseason all passing. Yes he threw the interception. It dissapointed me. I made sure to see it on video a few times. I can't help but to be intrigued by the way he reads the field and is able to connect. It's a special trait that I think Coach is also attracted to. Actually to me it's just another Tyrod Taylor situation. You have a QB that has a special trait. A skill that can't be denied. You take a shot on that guy hoping everything else falls into play. The only problem with guys like this is that you do need to game plan for matchups and flaws. A big weakness I now lay solely at Rick Dennisons feet. Fair enough, and I have nothing against him, just not convinced he has the tools to be a consistent starter in the league. 1 hour ago, keepthefaith said: The arm's a concern but McCarron's is very similar and at least in what we saw the other night AJ looked a bit slower in making the decision to throw. Nate looks like the slightly better athlete/runner than AJ to me. Ceiling of these two is probably more similar. Did anyone look closely at the film of Nate from the Carolina game and see that he seemed in such a hurry to make some throws that he was still almost back peddling when he started the throwing motion? Seems like that is something to be corrected and may help his velocity. He's a young dude, just 24. He can still improve, but yeah this is Allen's team when he shows he's ready. I agree that the one thing that NP i think does better than AJM right now is make quicker decisions. But NP also has more time with the team and roster, so that might be part of the reason. I have nothing against either QB and was impressed by both their first performances. But my gut feels like AJM has more of a shot at being an effective starter. Im just not overly stressed on it cuz it’s all about Allen really. So I’m just hoping one of these 2 play well enough to fetch us some trade value.
Wagon Circler Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Why do you think that about NP? Not one thing NP has shown on tape suggests that. In fact, the biggest risk of NP is how long it takes for the ball to get there. If he isnt perfect on his throws they will be timed and picked off. He also throws poorly under duress. People are WAY over valuing one drive in the first preseason game playing against some starters who are playing a weak and vanilla defense. They are simultaneously ignoring every other flaw he has demonstrated over his career thus far. He also made a poor pass, that was late, high, and behind Ivory leading to a turnover. Again, if he isnt perfect he doesnt have the physical gifts to make up for it. So while I am sure he will lay some nice passes in here or there, he is also a high risk to turn the ball over. If he is late on an outside throw, then hello pick 6 because he won't be able to zip it in there. He has a very low ceiling IMO where as AJM has more of a skill set to have a higher ceiling. But in the end...who really cares. This is Josh Allens team...these two guys are just playing til Allen takes their job. So I dont get the obsession between NP and AJM right now, its almost irrelevant as they are not our future. At best, they are trade bait if they can just be ok out there. Which QB played the best? Nate Peterman! Just saying let the QB that looks the best get the job. Nate has taken an early lead. Don't say his performance was overvalued when everyone is making a big deal over two good throws Allen made against a third team defense.
Alphadawg7 Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Wagon Circler said: Which QB played the best? Nate Peterman! Just saying let the QB that looks the best get the job. Nate has taken an early lead. Don't say his performance was overvalued when everyone is making a big deal over two good throws Allen made against a third team defense. Um I didn’t say Allen played better. I said NP had one good drive (against a vanilla D) then 2 throws into his 2nd made a bad throw that was another turnover. Hey if he wins the job, great I have nothing against him. But people need to calm down over one drive, he gave the ball away the very next drive again. Edited August 15, 2018 by Alphadawg7
transplantbillsfan Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 On 8/13/2018 at 7:59 AM, BurpleBull said: If Peterman has another solid performance against CLE, I think he gets the nod. Keeping my fingers crossed. Against 3rd stringers? Do you think Peterman starts on Friday? AJ is up in the rotation and Allen has been getting 1st and 2nd string reps largely since last week's game. Looking like Allen gets some of those reps in the Cleveland game.
HappyDays Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/joe-b-7-observations-from-2018-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-15 As for the other two quarterbacks, Nathan Peterman and A.J. McCarron flipped responsibilities from how the Bills positioned them on Monday. Peterman worked with the third-team offense on Monday and was with the top unit on Tuesday -- and vice versa for McCarron. Peterman went 9-of-9 while taking a pair of sacks with the ones, and McCarron was 9-of-12 with the third unit. Neither player has done anything to cancel themselves out of the competition to be the starting quarterback, which further complicates Sean McDermott's ultimate decision. I still think one of them starts the season. They aren't making the decision any easier but this is what you call a good problem to have.
transplantbillsfan Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Mat68 said: If your not concerned with Ints why not just go with Allen. He will have some poor Ints but will have some incredible passes as well. Sums it all up right here. Peterman's INTs will be because he's very limited. Allen's INTs will be because he's trying to figure out his limits. The only way you figure out your limits in the NFL is testing them in live game action. That's the basic reason Allen starts sooner rather than later. Maybe not in Baltimore (though I think that's still pretty likely), but this season. 16 minutes ago, HappyDays said: https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/joe-b-7-observations-from-2018-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-15 I still think one of them starts the season. They aren't making the decision any easier but this is what you call a good problem to have. Oh man... here's a monkey wrench in the chain from those notes: "With the second-team, Allen looked smooth and sharp while connecting on 9-of-14 passes, and barely missing Malachi Dupre for a touchdown on a deep post. If he plays well enough against Cleveland, perhaps he might warrant some more first-team time ahead of the team's third preseason game -- which have practices in Orchard Park that are no longer open in full to the media. " I'm sensing a last minute starting QB announcement to keep Baltimore on their toes... Allen- 42% McCarron-33% Peterman-25% Those are my odds.
reddogblitz Posted August 15, 2018 Posted August 15, 2018 7 hours ago, _Underscore_ said: Incidentally, I don’t get that feel from AJM. (just my opinion) It doesnt matterwhat "feel" you get. It's who plays better on the field in the games. So far at least it appears to be AJ.
BurpleBull Posted August 15, 2018 Author Posted August 15, 2018 5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Against 3rd stringers? Do you think Peterman starts on Friday? AJ is up in the rotation and Allen has been getting 1st and 2nd string reps largely since last week's game. Looking like Allen gets some of those reps in the Cleveland game. I think McCarron is first man in and Peterman second.
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