Prediction: Nathan Peterman Bills Starting QB Wk. 1 vs. Ravens

[fridge]

I can honestly say that I've never once seen anyone bring up throw velocity in a serious QB argument until this thread.  Nathan Peterman has an NFL arm. It's on the lower spectrum, sure, but it's good enough or he wouldn't be here.

 

As long as he focuses on his strengths, like pre-snap reads and getting the ball out quickly, he'll do just fine.  It does seem like some Bills fans are genuinely rooting against him or at the very least cannot get past their confirmation bias.

 

Right now, all three QB's should give you hope.  For the first time in many years, there's not a QB like Yates, Kolb, Cassell, etc. in our camp.

[Kirby Jackson]

20 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Before this veers off course...

 

Moving on.

Ha ha, I mean I’m not here to bust your balls but let’s quickly recap. You said “people are willing to just flat out lie to prove their point correct.” When the posters claim was supported by a very credible website you then indicated you didn’t say the lying part.

 

Ha ha ha, I’m with you though we really should move on from this overpartcipated in thread. We are at like 70 pages on a guy that may never start another NFL game. That’s insanity. I’m going to slide out of here. I gave my thoughts a few pages back as to why I don’t think that he can succeed. If he can consistently make throws like the TD to Benjamin he has a chance to be a functioning number 2. If not, he’s going to see press man every meaningful play and it won’t be pretty.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

12 minutes ago, fridge said:

I can honestly say that I've never once seen anyone bring up throw velocity in a serious QB argument until this thread.  Nathan Peterman has an NFL arm. It's on the lower spectrum, sure, but it's good enough or he wouldn't be here.

 

As long as he focuses on his strengths, like pre-snap reads and getting the ball out quickly, he'll do just fine.  It does seem like some Bills fans are genuinely rooting against him or at the very least cannot get past their confirmation bias.

 

Right now, all three QB's should give you hope.  For the first time in many years, there's not a QB like Yates, Kolb, Cassell, etc. in our camp.

Or how soon the arguments over JP having an arm are forgotten.  

 

Velocity alone one will not win a football game.  

I’m ok with bringing in AJ and the signing of JA.  

 

Let see how things develop.   I don’t see the FO rushing a decision 

 

 

no matter what the fans want. 

[BurpleBull]

35 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Ha ha, I mean I’m not here to bust your balls but let’s quickly recap. You said “people are willing to just flat out lie to prove their point correct.” When the posters claim was supported by a very credible website you then indicated you didn’t say the lying part.

 

Ha ha ha, I’m with you though we really should move on from this overpartcipated in thread. We are at like 70 pages on a guy that may never start another NFL game. That’s insanity. I’m going to slide out of here. I gave my thoughts a few pages back as to why I don’t think that he can succeed. If he can consistently make throws like the TD to Benjamin he has a chance to be a functioning number 2. If not, he’s going to see press man every meaningful play and it won’t be pretty.

 

Oh so weren't genuinely asking me to move on...you rehash the discussion in a "recap".

 

By ''moving on', I meant on from a discussion deviating from the topic of Bills' football.

 

"Bust your balls"?

 

Okay.

[Tyrod's friend]

On 8/10/2018 at 9:07 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

... Yesterday looked like Allen at Wyoming...

 

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem. You seem to think that having a plan means that by default he AUTOMATICALLY gets the keys to the car. If there is anything we know as fans in Buffalo, it's that for this particular head coach you earn that right every day. 

I agree with you, to the extent that he needs that exposure. I don't it automatically will occur in a regular season game this year. It really didn't for Pat Mahomes  - and the Chiefs paid a substantial price to get him. Presumably there is a very capable #1 overall pick that showed his mettle pretty well against the Giants. The Ravens moved up to get Lamar Jackson; is he going to play in an important game this year? I highly, highly doubt it. 

So there - three very recent examples. Do SOME QBs play year one? Yeah. Generally not the ones with real development issues though. And as you yourself have already stated, there is no pattern that Allen has grown as yet.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

 

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem. You seem to think that having a plan means that by default he AUTOMATICALLY gets the keys to the car. If there is anything we know as fans in Buffalo, it's that for this particular head coach you earn that right every day. 

I agree with you, to the extent that he needs that exposure. I don't it automatically will occur in a regular season game this year. It really didn't for Pat Mahomes  - and the Chiefs paid a substantial price to get him. Presumably there is a very capable #1 overall pick that showed his mettle pretty well against the Giants. The Ravens moved up to get Lamar Jackson; is he going to play in an important game this year? I highly, highly doubt it. 

So there - three very recent examples. Do SOME QBs play year one? Yeah. Generally not the ones with real development issues though. And as you yourself have already stated, there is no pattern that Allen has grown as yet.

I don’t think that I’ve ever said that he needs to play this year. I’ve said over and over and over that he will play when they think he is ready. It may not be this year. It may be this year.

 

He looked like Allen at Wyoming because he wasn’t playing with NFL talent (just like at Wyoming). Between the receivers and OL that he played with none of them may make the roster. How is he supposed to develop pocket presence and work on his base when it’s a fire drill as soon as the ball is snapped? That’s why he needs to play with better players and it will likely be at the expense of one of the other 2.

 

The single most important thing to this franchise is Allen’s development. If he develops they could become the Eagles in the near future. They will have tons of assets and a stud QB on a rookie deal. That is when the window is open. 

 

We aren’t even talking about the same thing. It’s not “play him now” it’s “let’s develop this incredible talent.” It isn’t a coincidence that he was back working with the ones on Friday. McDermott and Beane have a plan to develop him. Nothing is going to alter that plan.

[BurpleBull]

3 hours ago, fridge said:

I can honestly say that I've never once seen anyone bring up throw velocity in a serious QB argument until this thread.  Nathan Peterman has an NFL arm. It's on the lower spectrum, sure, but it's good enough or he wouldn't be here.

 

As long as he focuses on his strengths, like pre-snap reads and getting the ball out quickly, he'll do just fine.  It does seem like some Bills fans are genuinely rooting against him or at the very least cannot get past their confirmation bias.

 

Right now, all three QB's should give you hope.  For the first time in many years, there's not a QB like Yates, Kolb, Cassell, etc. in our camp.

 

Peterman has close to 10' inch hands, so the 'hands too small for cold weather' gripe was off the table.

 

[BurpleBull]

41 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

 

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem. You seem to think that having a plan means that by default he AUTOMATICALLY gets the keys to the car. If there is anything we know as fans in Buffalo, it's that for this particular head coach you earn that right every day. 

I agree with you, to the extent that he needs that exposure. I don't it automatically will occur in a regular season game this year. It really didn't for Pat Mahomes  - and the Chiefs paid a substantial price to get him. Presumably there is a very capable #1 overall pick that showed his mettle pretty well against the Giants. The Ravens moved up to get Lamar Jackson; is he going to play in an important game this year? I highly, highly doubt it. 

So there - three very recent examples. Do SOME QBs play year one? Yeah. Generally not the ones with real development issues though. And as you yourself have already stated, there is no pattern that Allen has grown as yet.

 

Allen played behind the same guys McCarron did minus McDermott at LT and Redmond at C, for the majority of the game; McDermott was solid, Redmond looked better than Bodine did while in with McCarron, and Boettger was part of the second team that blocked for McCarron.

 

The narrative that Allen was running around for his life, unable to display his full potential, just like during his days at Wyoming, because he was playing with 'third team' O-linemen is a false one.

 

He was afforded pass protection also.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, BurpleBull said:

 

Allen played behind the same guys McCarron did minus McDermott at LT and Redmond at C, for the majority of the game; McDermott was solid, Redmond looked better than Bodine did while in with McCarron, and Boettger was part of the second team that blocked for McCarron.

 

The narrative that Allen was running around for his life, unable to display his full potential, just like during his days at Wyoming, because he was playing with 'third team' O-linemen is a false one.

 

He was afforded pass protection also.

That was pass protection?!? Also, can you post the OL snap counts from the other night? I can’t seem to find them.  Pro football reference doesn’t have it posted. If you’ve learned anything about me in the last 70 pages I’m not going to take your word for it. I’d like to see the snap counts. 

 

Also McDermott and Redmond were horrible the other day. Redmond even got called out by Sal the other day. McDermott was horrible and is on the outside looking in at this point. 

[Fred Clause]

14 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Allen played behind the same guys McCarron did minus McDermott at LT and Redmond at C, for the majority of the game; McDermott was solid, Redmond looked better than Bodine did while in with McCarron, and Boettger was part of the second team that blocked for McCarron.

 

The narrative that Allen was running around for his life, unable to display his full potential, just like during his days at Wyoming, because he was playing with 'third team' O-linemen is a false one.

 

He was afforded pass protection also.

You just said it was the same line except it was  40% different, so did he have the same line or didn’t he? The only thing false is your conclusion from what I can see...

[WhickedWilliams]

40 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t think that I’ve ever said that he needs to play this year. I’ve said over and over and over that he will play when they think he is ready. It may not be this year. It may be this year.

 

He looked like Allen at Wyoming because he wasn’t playing with NFL talent (just like at Wyoming). Between the receivers and OL that he played with none of them may make the roster. How is he supposed to develop pocket presence and work on his base when it’s a fire drill as soon as the ball is snapped? That’s why he needs to play with better players and it will likely be at the expense of one of the other 2.

 

The single most important thing to this franchise is Allen’s development. If he develops they could become the Eagles in the near future. They will have tons of assets and a stud QB on a rookie deal. That is when the window is open. 

 

We aren’t even talking about the same thing. It’s not “play him now” it’s “let’s develop this incredible talent.” It isn’t a coincidence that he was back working with the ones on Friday. McDermott and Beane have a plan to develop him. Nothing is going to alter that plan.

 

 

Couldnt agree more. Peterman or AJ will start and bring him along slowly. Can’t compare everything when it’s nit ? to ? some people think third team OL is the same as what the game opened with... ? 

[Lfod]

33 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Allen played behind the same guys McCarron did minus McDermott at LT and Redmond at C, for the majority of the game; McDermott was solid, Redmond looked better than Bodine did while in with McCarron, and Boettger was part of the second team that blocked for McCarron.

 

The narrative that Allen was running around for his life, unable to display his full potential, just like during his days at Wyoming, because he was playing with 'third team' O-linemen is a false one.

 

He was afforded pass protection also.

I agree. I also don't think Peterman had a wall in front of him. If he wasn't dropping back and firing the O-Line in places would have collapsed and he would of been sacked. 

 

Peterman is the starter next season as of right now. You are absolutely correct. I hope our boy can pump fake though. I don't see these grandiose pockets with Peterman sitting back enjoying all the time in the world. 

 

I think people over estimate the O-Line and not understand that Petermans quick passes made them look like they could hold up. Allen has the best arm but Peterman smokes them all when it comes to dropping back and firing immediately. Nobody does that but Peterman.

 

As much as people want it, Allen isn't starting this season. That game was just to get his feet wet. Next game AJ will prove behind the starting line why it has to be Peterman. That O-Line won't hold up for anything but the quick passing. Mark my words bro. Your not going to see AJ deep bombing to a receiver that wide open often. The other two bombs we're over thrown and actually being covered. I wasn't as impressed. I laugh when they praise AJs deep ball. It was one out of three and his WR was wide open. 

 

The guy has an almost perfect game and crickets as far as fans go. They cheer the 60 yard incompletion by Allen. I'm not saying AJ isn't good competition but based on that game AJ had to lean on the running game. Peterman was entirely through the freaking air. 

 

Allen was good. If he can't move the scrubs vs scrubs game he isn't going to be franchise. Its a strawman to prop up a rookie. I love Josh Allen as a draft pick. His time will come.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Lfod

[BurpleBull]

25 minutes ago, Lfod said:

I agree. I also don't think Peterman had a wall in front of him. If he wasn't dropping back and firing the O-Line in places would have collapsed and he would of been sacked. 

 

Peterman is the starter next season as of right now. You are absolutely correct. I hope our boy can pump fake though. I don't see these grandiose pockets with Peterman sitting back enjoying all the time in the world. 

 

I think people over estimate the O-Line and not understand that Petermans quick passes made them look like they could hold up. Allen has the best arm but Peterman smokes them all when it comes to dropping back and firing immediately. Nobody does that but Peterman.

 

As much as people want it, Allen isn't starting this season. That game was just to get his feet wet. Next game AJ will prove behind the starting line why it has to be Peterman. That O-Line won't hold up for anything but the quick passing. Mark my words bro. Your not going to see AJ deep bombing to a receiver that wide open often. The other two bombs we're over thrown and actually being covered. I wasn't as impressed. I laugh when they praise AJs deep ball. It was one out of three and his WR was wide open. 

 

The guy has an almost perfect game and crickets as far as fans go. They cheer the 60 yard incompletion by Allen. I'm not saying AJ isn't good competition but based on that game AJ had to lean on the running game. Peterman was entirely through the freaking air. 

 

Allen was good. If he can't move the scrubs vs scrubs game he isn't going to be franchise. Its a strawman to prop up a rookie. I love Josh Allen as a draft pick. His time will come.

 

Thank you! Very! Much!

 

Earlier I made the comparison between Peterman and Fitzpatrick in terms of their decisiveness for that reason.

 

Fitzpatrick made an O-line that consisted of Hairston, Urbik, and Pears look a lot better than it was.

 

Peterman did the same in Thursday's game, negating the Panthers' pass rush with quick completions.

 

But of course this will get overlooked.

 

Thankfully not by the coaches.

 

 

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Thank you! Very! Much!

 

Earlier I made the comparison between Peterman and Fitzpatrick in terms of their decisiveness for that reason.

 

Fitzpatrick made an O-line that consisted of Hairston, Urbik, and Pears look a lot better than it was.

 

Peterman did the same in Thursday's game, negating the Panthers' pass rush with quick completions.

 

But of course this will get overlooked.

 

Thankfully not by the coaches.

 

 

 

 

Oh, Peterman’s quick release absolutely helps the OL. Who debated that? At the same time the first string OL is better than the 3rd. I’d still like to see the OL snap counts. I don’t think deBeer was with the 2’s. This is what I was talking about:

 

 

[BurpleBull]

39 minutes ago, Fred Clause said:

You just said it was the same line except it was  40% different, so did he have the same line or didn’t he? The only thing false is your conclusion from what I can see...

 

Same line minus the two named players.

 

Where's the confusion?

 

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Same line minus the two named players.

 

Where's the confusion?

 

Also, unless Sal Capaccio is lying that’s not the case. 

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/opinion/capaccio-bills-panthers-arrow-arrow-down

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

Same line minus the two named players.

Where's the confusion?

 

The confusion is:

1) when you take away 40% of the OL, including the center, you don't have the same line.  otherwise, why would some of us be concerned about the starting OL minus Wood and 'Cog?

2) I believe it was more than 40% changed.  I saw DeBeer in there, for example.  Coach Sal comments:

• Third-team offensive line

Allen was under duress too often, and it was especially true when the third-string offensive line was in the game (the other two quarterbacks didn’t play with the group). They also committed penalties that stalled drives and had the offense going backwards. Their performance as a group did not instill a lot of faith in the depth of the line.

[Lfod]

26 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Thank you! Very! Much!

 

Earlier I made the comparison between Peterman and Fitzpatrick in terms of their decisiveness for that reason.

 

Fitzpatrick made an O-line that consisted of Hairston, Urbik, and Pears look a lot better than it was.

 

Peterman did the same in Thursday's game, negating the Panthers' pass rush with quick completions.

 

But of course this will get overlooked.

 

Thankfully not by the coaches.

 

 

 

 

You called it May 21st when you posted this topic. I'll be honest I never counted him out, but I never counted him in either. I was always on the fence. I can't give you credit for calling it May 21st yet you understand but I'll be back on this thread when it happens. 

 

I just keep going back to rewatch the highlights. Then I don't watch Peterman, just the line. It doesn't look dominant as the narrative. The one time Peterman couldn't fire quick he had to scramble to the outside to hit Kelvin Benjamin. I definitely could see the line being pushed back more then once but the ball is gone before it matters. 

 

3 games left until you look like some sort of football medium. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Lfod

[BurpleBull]

20 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Oh, Peterman’s quick release absolutely helps the OL. Who debated that? At the same time the first string OL is better than the 3rd. I’d still like to see the OL snap counts. I don’t think deBeer was with the 2’s. This is what I was talking about:

 

 

 

Not so much debated as downplayed.

 

With that acknowledgement, the Panther's defense was still able to come with pressure and Allen wasn't facing the Panther's first-team defense when his number was called either.

 

McCarron had the most time to throw of the three QB's easily.

 

You described McDermott's play as 'terrible' or 'horrible' and that just wasn't the case.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Lfod said:

I just keep going back to rewatch the highlights. Then I don't watch Peterman, just the line. It doesn't look dominant as the narrative. The one time Peterman couldn't fire quick he had to scramble to the outside to hit Kelvin Benjamin. I definitely could see the line being pushed back more then once but the ball is gone before it matters. 

 

I agree.  The line looks somewhat competent, no more.  I'm not declaring the line "fixed" or even "OK" as some are until I see them when it counts, on Sunday.

A line is always gonna be pushed back on a number of plays, though. 

 

I think indirectly, you capture the conundrum the Bills coaches are trying to solve.  Peterman has a faster brain for football than AJM, I think.  He picked up Daboll's offense faster.  He understands it more thoroughly.  Sometimes that translates into knowing more quickly what he should do with the ball.  But he also gets fooled more (and this will multiply on game day when coaches scheme and try to deceive), and he still doesn't have a lot of zip.  When his mechanics aren't perfect and he tries to zip it, it doesn't go exactly where it should.  Peterman may give them more offense, but he'll also give them more mistakes.

 

AJ is Steady Eddy.  He won't make a lot of mistakes, and he'll push the ball downfield more than the opponents expect.  But he'll also hesitate because he's not sure what he's seeing.  He'll get sacked more, and leave plays on the field more than Peterman.

 

So which do they want?