Kirby Jackson Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: You've already almost certainly been proven wrong in at least one of your claims, I don't know why you and some of these other posters continue to go on in such definitive manner with your claims, as if you haven't already been shown up in your previous positions on where things stand. What do you disagree with from my post? - I said that he played exceptionally well. - I said that press man is kryptonite for someone that throws hitches and slants on a 3 step drop. (That is why I don’t believe that he can succeed). I’m not sure that either of those points is debatable? If you disagree with them please explain why.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 1 hour ago, BurpleBull said: I think I'm pretty even-keeled. Unlike a lot of posters who mocked Peterman's potential---through GIFs a lot of times---and labelled him practice squad material beforehand, but are now labelling him surefire, official "trade bait", scaling back their attacks on him, pretending to have seen this potential all along. Three more games to go. Let's go, Peterman! Yeah I know there is a lot of angst towards Nate and some criticism is well warranted. As to who’s the starter week 1 it’s too early
BurpleBull Posted August 10, 2018 Author Posted August 10, 2018 24 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: What do you disagree with from my post? - I said that he played exceptionally well. - I said that press man is kryptonite for someone that throws hitches and slants on a 3 step drop. (That is why I don’t believe that he can succeed). I’m not sure that either of those points is debatable? If you disagree with them please explain why. You in fact, can't believe either Peterman or McCarron can succeed, because you labelled them both "bad" QB's before Thursday's preseason game. Leading you to you declare this: On 8/1/2018 at 9:01 AM, Kirby Jackson said: They will wait until the 1st preseason game for that. That is also when Allen will be elevated from the 3’s. They will eliminate one of Peterman or McCarron by the conclusion of the 1st preseason game. Then it will be dependent on Allen’s development as to whether or not he is ready for opening day. It’s 2 different things going on. Allen’s development is independent of the competition between Peterman and McCarron. When current evidence begins to do away with your stance on things, I start to question the motivations behind one continuing to speak so definitively against that evidence. It begins to feel like it's all in an effort to save face. That's my point and my issue. 2
keepthefaith Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Yeah I know there is a lot of angst towards Nate and some criticism is well warranted. As to who’s the starter week 1 it’s too early It is too early. Have to say this for Nate though. He got roughed up pretty good last year. 5 int's in a half, then he gets a nasty concussion in the snow game where he was showing some grit followed by the fire drill in the playoff game. We have to give him credit for the off-season work and for showing up to camp ready to compete and for competing pretty well thus far. Gotta like the guy for the effort and determination and early results. Edited August 10, 2018 by keepthefaith 1
Kirby Jackson Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 38 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: You in fact, can't believe either Peterman or McCarron can succeed, because you labelled them both "bad" QB's before Thursday's preseason game. Leading you to you declare this: When current evidence begins to do away with your stance on things, I start to question the motivations behind one continuing to speak so definitively against that evidence. It begins to feel like it's all in an effort to save face. That's my point and my issue. Okay, so you say that you disagree with my points but won’t tell me what you disagree with? I’ve told you EXACTLY why I think that he isn’t good. I just laid it out and asked you if you disagree and you changed the subject. I believe that Allen is going to start seeing more and more time with better players despite Peterman and McCarron playing well last night. Allen can simply do things that they can’t. He has a chance to be a star. Those 2 are backups. I don’t think anyone in the league feels differently?
billsredneck1 Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Figster said: A J by way of example makes higher velocity throws on a regular basis. doesn't look that way to me.
Tyrod's friend Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Figster said: 50 and 53 are not exactly the same and the number I have on Peterman is 49. When 55 is the preferred velocity for an NFL QB wouldn't you agree that every MPH slower makes a difference when it comes to limitations? Peterman puts allot of air under most of his throws where as A J by way of example makes higher velocity throws on a regular basis. In comparison to Peterman/ 49 Josh Allen can throw 15 to 20 MPH faster. You can have success with lower velocity QB, of that I agree, but with lower velocity comes limitations in my humble opinion. It's a good post. A baseball pitcher tossing a ball 100 MPH gets to the batter in .412 seconds. So frankly, in answer to your question, no. You are talking about literally 100ths of a second difference. Any marginal gain between AJM and NP is almost undetectable. Let's put it another way; do you think the difference between a guy running a 4.3 and 4.35 40 is truly significant? You'd be one of only a few. And most passes in the NFL aren't going 40 yards. Almost none of them do and if they do, they are likely trying to simply lead a WR. If you can make the ball go 40 to 60 yards ... it doesn't make any difference how fast it gets there. The difference between NP and AJM is less than that. And as you are well aware, a potential MVP QB was drafted two years ago spinning it at less than Peterman; another first round pick this year likewise throws it slower. Nobody on the Ravens or the Texans are complaining about arm strength in their QB. (Not sure where you got a timed number anywhere near 70 MPH for Allen, btw.) Cheers, Alex 7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Okay, so you say that you disagree with my points but won’t tell me what you disagree with? I’ve told you EXACTLY why I think that he isn’t good. I just laid it out and asked you if you disagree and you changed the subject. I believe that Allen is going to start seeing more and more time with better players despite Peterman and McCarron playing well last night. Allen can simply do things that they can’t. He has a chance to be a star. Those 2 are backups. I don’t think anyone in the league feels differently? I think many in the NFL, even or especially after last night, believe that Allen has a significant chance to both be a star and be a bust. Throwing the ball 70 yards like he did on that first pass looked nice, but he was way the f off target and the ball landed out of bounds by several yards. The QB was alone in the backfield when he threw it and he was throwing into single coverage. In case you hadn't noticed, there aren't a lot of risk takers in the NFL and your head coach especially isn't one of them. I think you will be significantly surprised at the amount of time Josh Allen gets with the first team group. 1 1
Kirby Jackson Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said: It's a good post. A baseball pitcher tossing a ball 100 MPH gets to the batter in .412 seconds. So frankly, in answer to your question, no. You are talking about literally 100ths of a second difference. Any marginal gain between AJM and NP is almost undetectable. Let's put it another way; do you think the difference between a guy running a 4.3 and 4.35 40 is truly significant? You'd be one of only a few. And most passes in the NFL aren't going 40 yards. Almost none of them do and if they do, they are likely trying to simply lead a WR. If you can make the ball go 40 to 60 yards ... it doesn't make any difference how fast it gets there. The difference between NP and AJM is less than that. And as you are well aware, a potential MVP QB was drafted two years ago spinning it at less than Peterman; another first round pick this year likewise throws it slower. Nobody on the Ravens or the Texans are complaining about arm strength in their QB. (Not sure where you got a timed number anywhere near 70 MPH for Allen, btw.) Cheers, Alex I think many in the NFL, even or especially after last night, believe that Allen has a significant chance to both be a star and be a bust. Throwing the ball 70 yards like he did on that first pass looked nice, but he was way the f off target and the ball landed out of bounds by several yards. The QB was alone in the backfield when he threw it and he was throwing into single coverage. In case you hadn't noticed, there aren't a lot of risk takers in the NFL and your head coach especially isn't one of them. I think you will be significantly surprised at the amount of time Josh Allen gets with the first team group. The Bills didn’t use a 1st and 2 2nds to have him throwing to Robert Foster. He is going to start getting to play with quality players. He 100%, unequivocally is their guy. They will continue to develop him but what is happening around him isn’t impacting his development schedule. They aren’t going to keep him as a number 3 because Peterman and McCarron played well. His development isn’t tied to their play. They have a plan for him and are executing it.
BurpleBull Posted August 10, 2018 Author Posted August 10, 2018 15 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Yeah I know there is a lot of angst towards Nate and some criticism is well warranted. As to who’s the starter week 1 it’s too early I agree...three more games to go.
transplantbillsfan Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 10 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: Confirmation bias? 47% completion percentage and a couple of amazing throws. His fundamentals are still poor, he puts way too much zip on passes that need touch, and he put the ball in bad spots a couple of times trying to do too much. If you told me I was watching a Wyoming game, I wouldn't have even flinched. FWIW, on the Colin Cowherd show today, Brady Quinn was a guest and he was asked questions about Baker Mayfield's performance. With absolutely no prompting or mention of Allen's name, Quinn said (to paraphrase) "ya know the guy who I thought was great last night: Josh Allen. He's the guy who looked like the #1 overall pick last night." He brought Allen's name in again at some point during that interview; again, with no prompting. I think you're all alone with blinders on if you thought Allen didn't look really, really good. 1 1
Ittakestime Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 Nothing has changed with Peterman. His game and arm are fine in preseason, but he will be interception central again if they try to play him in regular season. There were a couple throws he did yesterday that we picks in regular season last year. McCarron needs to be the starter of this team. His arm is way better and can use the whole field. Not to mention his pocket awareness seems to be really above average. 2
BullBuchanan Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: FWIW, on the Colin Cowherd show today, Brady Quinn was a guest and he was asked questions about Baker Mayfield's performance. With absolutely no prompting or mention of Allen's name, Quinn said (to paraphrase) "ya know the guy who I thought was great last night: Josh Allen. He's the guy who looked like the #1 overall pick last night." He brought Allen's name in again at some point during that interview; again, with no prompting. I think you're all alone with blinders on if you thought Allen didn't look really, really good. I thought he looked mediocre. Some great plays, some bad ones. I grade him as incomplete. He didn't show me anything I didn't expect him to do.
BurpleBull Posted August 10, 2018 Author Posted August 10, 2018 41 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Okay, so you say that you disagree with my points but won’t tell me what you disagree with? I’ve told you EXACTLY why I think that he isn’t good. I just laid it out and asked you if you disagree and you changed the subject. I believe that Allen is going to start seeing more and more time with better players despite Peterman and McCarron playing well last night. Allen can simply do things that they can’t. He has a chance to be a star. Those 2 are backups. I don’t think anyone in the league feels differently? My issue isn't about your opinions per se, as it is about the bases that forms many of those opinions that you continue to present as fact, despite current evidence not jibing with it. You declaring both QB's "bad", not backups, being an example of this.
Figster Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tyrod's friend said: It's a good post. A baseball pitcher tossing a ball 100 MPH gets to the batter in .412 seconds. So frankly, in answer to your question, no. You are talking about literally 100ths of a second difference. Any marginal gain between AJM and NP is almost undetectable. Let's put it another way; do you think the difference between a guy running a 4.3 and 4.35 40 is truly significant? You'd be one of only a few. And most passes in the NFL aren't going 40 yards. Almost none of them do and if they do, they are likely trying to simply lead a WR. If you can make the ball go 40 to 60 yards ... it doesn't make any difference how fast it gets there. The difference between NP and AJM is less than that. And as you are well aware, a potential MVP QB was drafted two years ago spinning it at less than Peterman; another first round pick this year likewise throws it slower. Nobody on the Ravens or the Texans are complaining about arm strength in their QB. (Not sure where you got a timed number anywhere near 70 MPH for Allen, btw.) Cheers, Alex I think many in the NFL, even or especially after last night, believe that Allen has a significant chance to both be a star and be a bust. Throwing the ball 70 yards like he did on that first pass looked nice, but he was way the f off target and the ball landed out of bounds by several yards. The QB was alone in the backfield when he threw it and he was throwing into single coverage. In case you hadn't noticed, there aren't a lot of risk takers in the NFL and your head coach especially isn't one of them. I think you will be significantly surprised at the amount of time Josh Allen gets with the first team group. Allen was clocked at 66.14 MPH at the senior bowl. Bad comparisons in my opinion. Reaching an acceptable velocity when needed is harder for weaker armed QB to achieve without compromising good mechanics/accuracy in my humble opinion. Edited August 10, 2018 by Figster
HappyDays Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 52 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: FWIW, on the Colin Cowherd show today, Brady Quinn was a guest and he was asked questions about Baker Mayfield's performance. With absolutely no prompting or mention of Allen's name, Quinn said (to paraphrase) "ya know the guy who I thought was great last night: Josh Allen. He's the guy who looked like the #1 overall pick last night." He brought Allen's name in again at some point during that interview; again, with no prompting. I think you're all alone with blinders on if you thought Allen didn't look really, really good. Thanks for the info. I think the first thing NFL players look for in a QB is pocket presence. Besides his arm strength that was Allen's best trait last night. He looks very comfortable in the pocket and stepped up on all his throws. Quinn knows firsthand how hard that is to do. Not sure that can be taught either. 1
BullBuchanan Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 Just now, HappyDays said: Thanks for the info. I think the first thing NFL players look for in a QB is pocket presence. Besides his arm strength that was Allen's best trait last night. He looks very comfortable in the pocket and stepped up on all his throws. Quinn knows firsthand how hard that is to do. Not sure that can be taught either. Of the 3, I thought he looked most distressed off the snap, and his feet never looked solid. I thought the game looked faster for him than the other two.
transplantbillsfan Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Thanks for the info. I think the first thing NFL players look for in a QB is pocket presence. Besides his arm strength that was Allen's best trait last night. He looks very comfortable in the pocket and stepped up on all his throws. Quinn knows firsthand how hard that is to do. Not sure that can be taught either. Exactly. That was what I was most pleased with. Allen honestly could have gotten killed just based on how porous our 2nd half OL was. But dude moved around the pocket well when he had to, hung in there and took a couple hits while delivering the ball (which I think all of us were gasping at) and chose to run smartly at other times, being sure to protect himself. I could see McDermott just shelving Allen for as long as he can while Peterman or McCarron start and win. The thing about it, I think, is that while McCarron or especially Peterman can be successful and win regular season games for us, it will be dependent on Dabol's game plan, which would be limited. And you could see that when Peterman was playing. Peterman was really good last night, but you can still see the limitations that just aren't there for Allen, who appears to be well ahead of where everyone projected him to be.
BullBuchanan Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Exactly. That was what I was most pleased with. Allen honestly could have gotten killed just based on how porous our 2nd half OL was. But dude moved around the pocket well when he had to, hung in there and took a couple hits while delivering the ball (which I think all of us were gasping at) and chose to run smartly at other times, being sure to protect himself. I could see McDermott just shelving Allen for as long as he can while Peterman or McCarron start and win. The thing about it, I think, is that while McCarron or especially Peterman can be successful and win regular season games for us, it will be dependent on Dabol's game plan, which would be limited. And you could see that when Peterman was playing. Peterman was really good last night, but you can still see the limitations that just aren't there for Allen, who appears to be well ahead of where everyone projected him to be. WGR disagrees
transplantbillsfan Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said: I thought he looked mediocre. Some great plays, some bad ones. I grade him as incomplete. He didn't show me anything I didn't expect him to do. Well, you're in the tiny minority and you're credibility is now even more questionable than it was. 14 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: WGR disagrees Don't live in Buffalo and don't listen to WGR, but from what I've heard the people with opinions on that station and the callers are mostly kooks.
BullBuchanan Posted August 10, 2018 Posted August 10, 2018 40 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Well, you're in the tiny minority and you're credibility is now even more questionable than it was. Don't live in Buffalo and don't listen to WGR, but from what I've heard the people with opinions on that station and the callers are mostly kooks. Minority on TBD maybe. I'll take that as a badge of honor. The reports today seem to back up my analysis, so whatever
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