LarryMadman Posted July 29, 2018 Posted July 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Just to be clear there is only one “best case scenario.” If Allen starts and looks like Watson did last year that is “best case scenario.” There are many other acceptable outcomes but that is the only “best case.” Now back to your regularly scheduled programming... That would be nice for a change. That the Bills draft a QB that hits the ground running and never looks back.
eball Posted July 29, 2018 Posted July 29, 2018 Eball's updated probabilities of opening day starter (barring injury): McCarron 55% Allen 40% Peterman 5% If McCarron fares well in preseason and isn't making any "big mistakes" then they probably want the veteran starting off the season. He appears to be most the most consistent as well as the least spectacular. Expect to see short routes and a bunch of sacks, but no huge mistakes. If Allen doesn't turn the ball over in preseason action and continues to show big play ability, the trust factor of the coaching staff goes way up and he may overtake McCarron. Peterman is really on the outside looking in at this point. We've seen through four days of camp that he's neither "safe" nor particularly spectacular. The other two guys would have to take significant steps back, while Nate himself steps it up, to change the odds of starting (in my opinion). 1
MikeSpeed Posted July 29, 2018 Posted July 29, 2018 I'd like to think AJ would be happy being a back up, but I cannot believe someone who sues his former team wants to leave to be a backup somewhere else. That doesn't make sense. I may be totally off base. If I am great, but he still only has a 2 year deal, so he'll be gone before Peterman would. Bottom line if Peterman is the backup I feel it's better for the Bill's long term.
LarryMadman Posted July 29, 2018 Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, MikeSpeed said: I'd like to think AJ would be happy being a back up, but I cannot believe someone who sues his former team wants to leave to be a backup somewhere else. That doesn't make sense. I may be totally off base. If I am great, but he still only has a 2 year deal, so he'll be gone before Peterman would. Bottom line if Peterman is the backup I feel it's better for the Bill's long term. Yeah I would think AJ wouldn't want that either but I have to believe McBeane told him they were drafting a QB and he still said ok I'll come to Buffalo. So IDK what is really going on in his head. Maybe he just didn't like the way Cincy was treating him and wanted out anywhere and doing anything. Edited July 29, 2018 by LarryMadman
BurpleBull Posted July 29, 2018 Author Posted July 29, 2018 On 7/28/2018 at 7:45 AM, Kirby Jackson said: I said it earlier in the thread but this “QB competition” is totally irrelevant. IF anyone but Allen starts at the beginning of the year they are a mere placeholder. It may week 1, it may be a month, it may be more but this isn’t a “competition.” It is a matter of “when is Allen ready to play?” This isn’t a battle to determine the QB of the future; that has already been decided. Though this competition isn't to determine the QB of the future---I don't think anybody is suggesting that it is---the future can become subject to change if Peterman consistently outperforms Allen in real-game action moving forward, never relinquishing his position of starting QB--- assuming he wins the current QB non-competition as you put it.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 29, 2018 Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: Though this competition isn't to determine the QB of the future---I don't think anybody is suggesting that it is---the future can become subject to change if Peterman consistently outperforms Allen in real-game action moving forward, never relinquishing his position of starting QB--- assuming he wins the current QB non-competition as you put it. That’s a minimum of 3 years away. When Allen gets the keys he’s going to get 2 years to prove himself. That’s the reality. It isn’t a competition. The Bills didn’t trade up to 7 to be so content with Peterman that they never see Allen. He will be handed the job the second that he is ready and will have 2 years to prove himself. If, at that point, they decide that he isn’t the answer they will start looking again. It’s HIGHLY UNLIKELY that 3 years down the road they will circle back to Peterman as Allen’s successor. The Cousins/RG situation is the only one that I can think of where that happened. Alex Smith was an MVP candidate last year and he was jettisoned. Teams are always going to see their top 10 QBs play. They will be given every opportunity to fail. Edited July 29, 2018 by Kirby Jackson 1
Prickly Pete Posted July 29, 2018 Posted July 29, 2018 This Peterman luv is some of the most absurd **** I have ever read. 1
BurpleBull Posted July 30, 2018 Author Posted July 30, 2018 Peterman looks like a different QB throwing-wise. I think he's gonna come on strong and make noise.
keepthefaith Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 12 hours ago, eball said: Eball's updated probabilities of opening day starter (barring injury): McCarron 55% Allen 40% Peterman 5% If McCarron fares well in preseason and isn't making any "big mistakes" then they probably want the veteran starting off the season. He appears to be most the most consistent as well as the least spectacular. Expect to see short routes and a bunch of sacks, but no huge mistakes. If Allen doesn't turn the ball over in preseason action and continues to show big play ability, the trust factor of the coaching staff goes way up and he may overtake McCarron. Peterman is really on the outside looking in at this point. We've seen through four days of camp that he's neither "safe" nor particularly spectacular. The other two guys would have to take significant steps back, while Nate himself steps it up, to change the odds of starting (in my opinion). I'll get trampled for this but I think the chances of Allen being the opening day starter are zero unless one or both of the others are hurt. He simply doesn't have enough time to conquer all of the things that a starting QB needs to conquer as a rookie in the NFL. It would be the exception and not the rule if he won the job and also played well early in the NFL. I just don't see McD taking that risk unless there is a huge gap in pre-season between him and the others. McCarron should be way ahead of Josh in terms of leadership, grasp of the offense and predictability. He has simply played, studied and practiced a lot more football at this point than has Josh. Wouldn't be surprised if Josh were #2 on opening day though.
transplantbillsfan Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think Joe B was referring to 1 day. Regarding which "yea! but it's only one day" No, he said it after day 3, and he said Allen was the best QB through 3 days of Training Camp.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 12 hours ago, MikeSpeed said: I'd like to think AJ would be happy being a back up, but I cannot believe someone who sues his former team wants to leave to be a backup somewhere else. That doesn't make sense. I may be totally off base. If I am great, but he still only has a 2 year deal, so he'll be gone before Peterman would. Bottom line if Peterman is the backup I feel it's better for the Bill's long term. I'm sure AJ hoped to get a starting gig, but what he sued for was to be a FA and to be able to consider all offers. He didn't get offered a starting gig by anyone. The Bills offered a chance to come in and compete. It is on him to take advantage of that opportunity. I don't think he wants to be a long term backup, but if he can't beat out a raw rookie generally acknowledged to be a long term project, it is what it is. 8 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: No, he said it after day 3, and he said Allen was the best QB through 3 days of Training Camp. OK, I sit corrected. I guess different reporters see it differently.
transplantbillsfan Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 32 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: Peterman looks like a different QB throwing-wise. I think he's gonna come on strong and make noise. It doesn't sound like he's had the $6 million dollar makeover some were saying he's had this offseason. Looks like a 6 dollar makeover, one that goes out the window if he's not dropping back and standing in a clean pocket in order to execute all those lower body mechanics he needs in order to show off all that "improved arm strength." Through 4 days of camp Dabol's offense looks to be incorporating a whole bunch of RPOs, rollouts and misdirection, often asking the QB to throw on the run. Not good...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 46 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: Peterman looks like a different QB throwing-wise. I think he's gonna come on strong and make noise. It's interesting how different people see different things. I'm not there watching, so I don't have enough data to have a personal opinion. Joe B had this to say: " 3) Peterman looks nervous - Training camp is three days old which is enough of a sample size to conclude that Nathan Peterman has not looked like the same player that he was during spring practices. Peterman showed confidence in his arm, touch on his throws, and a deep understanding of the playbook during the spring. In his first three days, Peterman has panicked in the pocket a bit and looks a little nervous to my eye. As a result, his accuracy has suffered, completing only 6-of-14 pass attempts over the last two days. To his credit, he is trying to push the ball down the field. However, sometimes the pocket gets so muddy around him that he gets some happy feet, and it causes his throw to go haywire. It is still incredibly early in the summer of work here, but at this point, Peterman has been the third-best quarterback during training camp. " Sal C also commented that when Peterman has time and space, there's noticeably more zip on his throws, but when he's on the move, there isn't (see quote in Transplant Bills Fan's post)
BurpleBull Posted July 30, 2018 Author Posted July 30, 2018 27 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: It doesn't sound like he's had the $6 million dollar makeover some were saying he's had this offseason. Looks like a 6 dollar makeover, one that goes out the window if he's not dropping back and standing in a clean pocket in order to execute all those lower body mechanics he needs in order to show off all that "improved arm strength." Through 4 days of camp Dabol's offense looks to be incorporating a whole bunch of RPOs, rollouts and misdirection, often asking the QB to throw on the run. Not good... You've used that tweet once before, but since you've chosen to use it again, I'll refer to the post I used the first time in response again. from newyorkupstate.com Buffalo Bills training camp day 2: Nathan Peterman shows off arm (8 observations) Peterman shows off the arm Josh Allen gets all the big headlines when it comes to the deep ball, but Peterman showed he can sling it when he needs to get downfield. Peterman found Cam Phillips on a rollout bomb in the end zone during 11-on-11 that brought the crowd to life at St. John Fisher. A rollout bomb to the end zone would count towards being able to execute the whole bunch of rollouts Daboll plans to incorporate I'm guessing?
BurpleBull Posted July 30, 2018 Author Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It's interesting how different people see different things. I'm not there watching, so I don't have enough data to have a personal opinion. Joe B had this to say: " 3) Peterman looks nervous - Training camp is three days old which is enough of a sample size to conclude that Nathan Peterman has not looked like the same player that he was during spring practices. Peterman showed confidence in his arm, touch on his throws, and a deep understanding of the playbook during the spring. In his first three days, Peterman has panicked in the pocket a bit and looks a little nervous to my eye. As a result, his accuracy has suffered, completing only 6-of-14 pass attempts over the last two days. To his credit, he is trying to push the ball down the field. However, sometimes the pocket gets so muddy around him that he gets some happy feet, and it causes his throw to go haywire. It is still incredibly early in the summer of work here, but at this point, Peterman has been the third-best quarterback during training camp. " Sal C also commented that when Peterman has time and space, there's noticeably more zip on his throws, but when he's on the move, there isn't (see quote in Transplant Bills Fan's post) I'm not there either, I'm just going off of what I see in the videos provided like most of us and you can see that the ball just comes out differently. I was commenting more so on Peterman's throwing mechanics not his poise or footwork in the pocket early on. I'm finding that playing experience covers a multitude of QB sins or at least the one pertaining to arm strength, because those who criticize Peterman's arm strength don't consistently do the same with McCarron, despite placing him and Peterman in the same class of Bills' QBs, who 'won't even think about making that throw' when comparing him against Josh Allen.
transplantbillsfan Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, BurpleBull said: You've used that tweet once before, but since you've chosen to use it again, I'll refer to the post I used the first time in response again. from newyorkupstate.com Buffalo Bills training camp day 2: Nathan Peterman shows off arm (8 observations) Peterman shows off the arm Josh Allen gets all the big headlines when it comes to the deep ball, but Peterman showed he can sling it when he needs to get downfield. Peterman found Cam Phillips on a rollout bomb in the end zone during 11-on-11 that brought the crowd to life at St. John Fisher. A rollout bomb to the end zone would count towards being able to execute the whole bunch of rollouts Daboll plans to incorporate I'm guessing? If all of them are bombs, sure. How often are rollouts in an offense predicated on moving the QB out of the pocket deep passes? I'm concerned with the majority of 5-20 yard NFL passes he'd be attempting that he was nearly incapable of last year, not the minority of flashy low percentage bombs he might throw.
reddogblitz Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 On 7/28/2018 at 2:46 PM, Kirby Jackson said: That’s what it sounds like (and Edwards is my least favorite Bill ever). With that being said McCarron has been a winner throughout his life. I’d like to think that he has a tough competitive spirit. I’m not sure that he’s too physically gifted but he will make good decisions. He did, and still does, feel like a good backup to me. He’s the kind of guy that can play for a few weeks and not hurt you. If I were to compare AJ to a historical Bills QB, I would think Kyle Orton. Smart, protective of the football but will throw it down field when it is there. And when the chips are down late,there's a decent chance he'll deliver. On 7/28/2018 at 2:56 PM, Seanbillsfan2206 said: I think the people who are calling for peterman to start are the same people that wanted Jeff Tuel to start and the same people that wanted Frank to start.
eball Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Peterman's goose is cooked. It truly is. McCarron is showing a better grasp of the offense, and Allen is not making huge rookie mistakes while flashing big play ability.
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