Aussie Joe Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 FMD... another 5 weeks of this crap until any QB throws a pass in anger... NP can’t either forward or regress his case in the meantime ... would be nice for this thread to be locked until then without rehashing the 5 INT and 5th round pick another 2, 000 times...
transplantbillsfan Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 8 hours ago, billsredneck1 said: so you were happy watching a 6th rd. pick who had been in the league for 5 years lead your team for 3 straight uninspiring years? 2017 = Longest Playoff Drought in Sports BROKEN The answer should be yes for any true Bills fan purely for the moment it happened.
Thurman#1 Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: 1st overall pick with both physical and mental talent regarded as the most can't-miss prospect in a decade and a half with NFL pedigree playing on an absolutely atrocious team throws 1 TD and 3 INTs in a game... game #1 of his rookie year... on a team that finished 3-13 the previous year Vs Late 5th round QB with some mental talent but below average to terrible NFL physical talent with no pedigree coming from a relatively small college program with minor success starts game #9 of his rookie year and throws 5 INTs in a half for a team clinging to a playoff spot Jesus... what a leap. Yeah... you're all Devil's Advocate Thurm, so not really a surprise you'd say you're excited. The appropriate word, if Peterman starts, is anxious... the true definition of that word. This is a dullard's argument. I was pointing out that the first few games of a rookie's career can be awful without it proving he will be awful. Simply that. As expected of you, yet again, your first instinct is to throw up the straw man argument and pretend I was saying something I simply didn't say. Typical. I wasn't leaping anywhere. Wasn't even comparing the two as anyone reading the post without a massive ax to grind would have noticed. I was comparing their first four games. Nothing more. And I was comparing them because ... they're comparable. But since you started the comparisons, OK. You point out that Manning was the "1st overall pick with both physical and mental talent regarded as the most can't-miss prospect in a decade..." So ... what, that's supposed to mean it's OK? Makes it more forgiveable that he was a can't miss #1 overall pick while Peterman came out of Pittsburgh? It doesn't. They were both rookies extremely early in their careers making rookie mistakes. Thanks for making my point for me, that even some guys with much higher expectations look awful in their first four games. And as for how horrible the Colts were, it was their defense that was awful. Their offense was actually OK despite Manning's ending the season with 26 TDs and 28 INTs and a 71.2 passer rating. The Colts were the 12th ranked offense in the league, actually. 12th in yards and 19th in scoring, which is slightly better than the 2017 Bills offense managed. In Peyton's rookie year, the Colts had Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison. And Manning still struggled badly. I was pointing out that the first three to four games of a rookie's career often means dick. And I did so successfully, which wasn't difficult because it should be obvious to anyone. But if you must go there and directly compare their first games, fine, let's do it. You claim that I pointed out that Manning had a game where he threw 1 TD and 3 INT. But as I clearly pointed out, it was a great deal worse than that for Peyton. Peterman's first four games: 2 TDs and 5 INTs Manning's first four games: 3 TDs and 11 INTs Rookies often suck in their early rookie appearances. Sometimes because they'll never be good enough. But anyone assuming that early suckage proves the guy will never make it is simply making a dumb mistake. Sometimes guys suck as rookies because playing in the NFL, especially at QB, is really really hard and they need time to learn. And sure, I'll be anxious if Peterman starts. Did I say anywhere I'd be filled with total confidence? Anxious but a bit excited. Same with the other two. We haven't got a proven solid QB. Haven't had one since Bledsoe. Why wouldn't anyone be nervous no matter who starts at QB this year? If Peterman starts it'll be because he won the competition against a guy who's at least been solid when he had his chance in Cincy. So yeah, excited too. Edited June 22, 2018 by Thurman#1 2 1 1
billsredneck1 Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: With the 10M wrapped up in AJ, I don't see them bailing on McCarron early. So unless he just sucks in preseason, it's AJ's to lose. All 3 guys will get reps with the 1's.... i agree, but any team with a need would gladly take that contract in a trade and maybe even throw a pick at us. if all things were equal they can profit from a.j. vs. nate. i like them all and hope they carry 3. whoever starts...it will be easy to tell right away if a change needs to be made so....
Wily Dog Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: This is a dullard's argument. I was pointing out that the first few games of a rookie's career can be awful without it proving he will be awful. Simply that. As expected of you, yet again, your first instinct is to throw up the straw man argument and pretend I was saying something I simply didn't say. Typical. I wasn't leaping anywhere. Wasn't even comparing the two as anyone reading the post without a massive ax to grind would have noticed. I was comparing their first four games. Nothing more. And I was comparing them because ... they're comparable. But since you started the comparisons, OK. You point out that Manning was the "1st overall pick with both physical and mental talent regarded as the most can't-miss prospect in a decade..." So ... what, that's supposed to mean it's OK? Makes it more forgiveable that he was a can't miss #1 overall pick while Peterman came out of Pittsburgh? It doesn't. They were both rookies extremely early in their careers making rookie mistakes. Thanks for making my point for me, that even some guys with much higher expectations look awful in their first four games. And as for how horrible the Colts were, it was their defense that was awful. Their offense was actually OK despite Manning's ending the season with 26 TDs and 28 INTs and a 71.2 passer rating. The Colts were the 12th ranked offense in the league, actually. 12th in yards and 19th in scoring, which is slightly better than the 2017 Bills offense managed. In Peyton's rookie year, the Colts had Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison. And Manning still struggled badly. I was pointing out that the first three to four games of a rookie's career often means dick. And I did so successfully, which wasn't difficult because it should be obvious to anyone. But if you must go there and directly compare their first games, fine, let's do it. You claim that I pointed out that Manning had a game where he threw 1 TD and 3 INT. But as I clearly pointed out, it was a great deal worse than that for Peyton. Peterman's first four games: 2 TDs and 5 INTs Manning's first four games: 3 TDs and 11 INTs Rookies often suck in their early rookie appearances. Sometimes because they'll never be good enough. But anyone assuming that early suckage proves the guy will never make it is simply making a dumb mistake. Sometimes guys suck as rookies because playing in the NFL, especially at QB, is really really hard and they need time to learn. And sure, I'll be anxious if Peterman starts. Did I say anywhere I'd be filled with total confidence? Anxious but a bit excited. Same with the other two. We haven't got a proven solid QB. Haven't had one since Bledsoe. Why wouldn't anyone be nervous no matter who starts at QB this year? If Peterman starts it'll be because he won the competition against a guy who's at least been solid when he had his chance in Cincy. So yeah, excited too. Best post of the 47 pages
billsredneck1 Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 On 6/20/2018 at 9:16 AM, Kirby Jackson said: I keep asking (and no one is answering), how much of Jeff Tuel did you need to see to form an opinion? Do you think he deserved more chances? He was WAY better in his opportunity than Peterman. Why was it okay to write off Tuel but not Peterman? What about Levi Brown? Gibran Hamdan? Brian Brohm? it was the pick six for tuel that had you guys bend him over and since you had so much practice on him, nate was /is irresistible. tuel could have had a chance to develop had not the regime changed and that's all there is to that. why don't you guys live in the present for once...check it out.... there are 3 qbs on the roster.....2 of which are battling for the job. peterman may actually win the job. your opinions and snark mean jack. i wanted a.j. to get his shot to shine but if nate gets the nod are you guys gonna leave or quit being fans? what will you do there kirby? join with tranny and some others and protest at the games. wear 5 pick tshirts? it is 06/22/18
ColoradoBills Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said: it was the pick six for tuel that had you guys bend him over and since you had so much practice on him, nate was /is irresistible. tuel could have had a chance to develop had not the regime changed and that's all there is to that. why don't you guys live in the present for once...check it out.... there are 3 qbs on the roster.....2 of which are battling for the job. peterman may actually win the job. your opinions and snark mean jack. i wanted a.j. to get his shot to shine but if nate gets the nod are you guys gonna leave or quit being fans? what will you do there kirby? join with tranny and some others and protest at the games. wear 5 pick tshirts? it is 06/22/18 I still believe after all the "dust" settles, AJ will start the 1st game in Baltimore. I'm waiting until the pads come on.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said: it was the pick six for tuel that had you guys bend him over and since you had so much practice on him, nate was /is irresistible. tuel could have had a chance to develop had not the regime changed and that's all there is to that. why don't you guys live in the present for once...check it out.... there are 3 qbs on the roster.....2 of which are battling for the job. peterman may actually win the job. your opinions and snark mean jack. i wanted a.j. to get his shot to shine but if nate gets the nod are you guys gonna leave or quit being fans? what will you do there kirby? join with tranny and some others and protest at the games. wear 5 pick tshirts? it is 06/22/18 If you are questioning my Bills loyalty clearly you don’t know me. Just because I don’t think that the guy is good doesn’t change anything for me. I’ll still invest thousands of dollars following the team around the country. I’ll still watch every second of every game. I thought that that this was a place to express our Bills opinions? Sorry that people don’t like that I think Peterman sucks at football. It doesn’t matter anyways because at some point in the very near future Allen is getting the keys. We should all hope that he’s good because that’s what will ultimately determine the success or failure of this team. 1
Happy Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said: I still believe after all the "dust" settles, AJ will start the 1st game in Baltimore. I'm waiting until the pads come on. I agree with this. Hard to think otherwise. Assuming AJ starts and Josh Allen sits and learns, what do you do with Peterman? Keep him on the active roster or send him to the PS? If PS, good chance some other team picks him up; I would bet the some other team is NE. 1
reddogblitz Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said: I agree with this. Hard to think otherwise. Assuming AJ starts and Josh Allen sits and learns, what do you do with Peterman? Keep him on the active roster or send him to the PS? If PS, good chance some other team picks him up; I would bet the some other team is NE. Who would take a Training Camp hero/football game choker. There is enough film on him already to know how to stop him. Anthony Lynn said he decided to bring max pressure after watching the Nasty Nate pre season games, you know, when he was doing really good. Unless he can stop nutting up when the heat is on, he's toast anyway. I'd put him on the PS. I think he'd be safe and if not, oh well.
transplantbillsfan Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: This is a dullard's argument. I was pointing out that the first few games of a rookie's career can be awful without it proving he will be awful. Simply that. As expected of you, yet again, your first instinct is to throw up the straw man argument and pretend I was saying something I simply didn't say. Typical. I wasn't leaping anywhere. Wasn't even comparing the two as anyone reading the post without a massive ax to grind would have noticed. I was comparing their first four games. Nothing more. And I was comparing them because ... they're comparable. But since you started the comparisons, OK. You point out that Manning was the "1st overall pick with both physical and mental talent regarded as the most can't-miss prospect in a decade..." So ... what, that's supposed to mean it's OK? Makes it more forgiveable that he was a can't miss #1 overall pick while Peterman came out of Pittsburgh? It doesn't. They were both rookies extremely early in their careers making rookie mistakes. Thanks for making my point for me, that even some guys with much higher expectations look awful in their first four games. And as for how horrible the Colts were, it was their defense that was awful. Their offense was actually OK despite Manning's ending the season with 26 TDs and 28 INTs and a 71.2 passer rating. The Colts were the 12th ranked offense in the league, actually. 12th in yards and 19th in scoring, which is slightly better than the 2017 Bills offense managed. In Peyton's rookie year, the Colts had Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison. And Manning still struggled badly. I was pointing out that the first three to four games of a rookie's career often means dick. And I did so successfully, which wasn't difficult because it should be obvious to anyone. But if you must go there and directly compare their first games, fine, let's do it. You claim that I pointed out that Manning had a game where he threw 1 TD and 3 INT. But as I clearly pointed out, it was a great deal worse than that for Peyton. Peterman's first four games: 2 TDs and 5 INTs Manning's first four games: 3 TDs and 11 INTs Rookies often suck in their early rookie appearances. Sometimes because they'll never be good enough. But anyone assuming that early suckage proves the guy will never make it is simply making a dumb mistake. Sometimes guys suck as rookies because playing in the NFL, especially at QB, is really really hard and they need time to learn. And sure, I'll be anxious if Peterman starts. Did I say anywhere I'd be filled with total confidence? Anxious but a bit excited. Same with the other two. We haven't got a proven solid QB. Haven't had one since Bledsoe. Why wouldn't anyone be nervous no matter who starts at QB this year? If Peterman starts it'll be because he won the competition against a guy who's at least been solid when he had his chance in Cincy. So yeah, excited too. So now I started the comparison despite the fact that I was directly responding to the comparison you made while simultaneously claiming you didn't make a comparison that you clearly made??? Man, you bring up straw man arguments I'm supposedly making and go on to make such an ugly one yourself. Manning started his first 4 games of his rookie year, thrown right into the fire and threw 146 passes for 992 yards. He took over for a team that was ranked 19th and 20th in YPG and PPG in 1997, and helped bring them up to 12th and 19th in 1998, precisely as you point out, though conveniently leaving out the team he took over. Yeah, he threw 11 INTs in those 4 games, but this was a bad team (including offense) the previous season coming off a 3-13 campaign and Manning had the arm talent and football smarts to be the most sure-fire Franchise QB to come out in a decade and a half. Peterman had half the season to sit and learn and watch before coming in and throwing a grand total of 49 passes in the 4 games you cite for a whopping 252 yards. His first live action came when the team was already blown the !@#$ out and the other D was in prevent mode. His first start was a sheer and utter historical disaster throwing 5 INTs with a 6th dropped... all in one half. Then he ended the season with this pass to Jalen Ra... I mean, Deonte Thompson: 6 Interceptions in 52 attempts along with getting himself knocked out of another game. A 7th INT that would have likely been a 2nd pick-6 dropped. But the numbers really aren't what bug me the most about Peterman. It's the sheer lack of an NFL arm, and I posted that clip because you can see it there. 2 of his 6 Interceptions (plus the one that the Charger DB dropped) are because of guys knowing the kid doesn't have the arm talent to get it to the sidelines quick enough. This is about physical ability he just doesn't have... or certainly didn't at least last year. And I thought even in the preseason when posters here were praising his play I was here saying his arm looked too weak and that in regular season action defenders could and would pretty easily jump routes. Manning had the physical ability along with the mental makeup from the get-go. While his arm was never a Cannon, it was always considered "good" in his early years by NFL standards. All of that disregards the pretty significant "different era" argument when it comes to how a QB like Manning or Aikman did early on vs QBs today. Back to stats alone, you just don't find QBs who are successful in the NFL start out absolutely sucking right off the bat anymore. Do you? Maybe Goff is the best example because he threw 5 picks in his first 4 games, but he also threw 4 TDs... and again, this was on 136 pass attempts, not 49. That might be the closest example there is... and yet again, it was with the 1st overall pick--a guy with all the tools, physically and mentally. But if, as you claim, Peterman's improved his arm strength, I hope it's by a lot, because that could make him at least interesting. I just have a hard time believing he improved it that significantly in a single offseason. Edited June 23, 2018 by transplantbillsfan
BurpleBull Posted June 23, 2018 Author Posted June 23, 2018 By Ryan Talbot talbotrj@yahoo.com, Contributing writer Nathan Peterman was one of the Buffalo Bills' biggest surprises of the spring. The quarterback added muscle to his frame following his rookie season and seemed to be throwing the football with more velocity during OTAs and minicamp. ------------------------------------------------------------ from Rochester Democrat and Chronicle The former Pitt standout is smart and looked very good in mini-camp where he showed improved arm strength and accuracy. 1
LeGOATski Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 49 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: By Ryan Talbot talbotrj@yahoo.com, Contributing writer Nathan Peterman was one of the Buffalo Bills' biggest surprises of the spring. The quarterback added muscle to his frame following his rookie season and seemed to be throwing the football with more velocity during OTAs and minicamp. ------------------------------------------------------------ from Rochester Democrat and Chronicle The former Pitt standout is smart and looked very good in mini-camp where he showed improved arm strength and accuracy. That's the main knock on him. It will be interesting to see if it really shows in his game performance. Outside of that, what else is there? His composure under pressure and pocket awareness is all I can think of. Both of which can be improved at the pro level. This QB comp could get really interesting.
BurpleBull Posted June 23, 2018 Author Posted June 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: That's the main knock on him. It will be interesting to see if it really shows in his game performance. Outside of that, what else is there? His composure under pressure and pocket awareness is all I can think of. Both of which can be improved at the pro level. This QB comp could get really interesting. If that is transferred to live game action, then I don't think there's much holding him back from being able to lead the offense. Knowing that you can get the ball where you want it to go with more ease, I imagine would cause your confidence as a passer to soar and allow you to focus on those other important things that go towards making a QB, a good QB. Peterman doesn't have poor pocket awareness from what I can tell, he moves well in the pocket to avoid the pass rush, keeping his eyes downfield and scrambling to pick up yards when necessary or when opportunity presents itself. Combine this all with better accuracy and a stronger throw, I think you've got a quality, starting QB.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 On 6/20/2018 at 9:16 AM, Kirby Jackson said: I keep asking (and no one is answering), how much of Jeff Tuel did you need to see to form an opinion? Do you think he deserved more chances? He was WAY better in his opportunity than Peterman. Why was it okay to write off Tuel but not Peterman? What about Levi Brown? Gibran Hamdan? Brian Brohm? If he beats out JA McCallen then he deserves more chances. He's going to have to earn it.
transplantbillsfan Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, BurpleBull said: By Ryan Talbot talbotrj@yahoo.com, Contributing writer Nathan Peterman was one of the Buffalo Bills' biggest surprises of the spring. The quarterback added muscle to his frame following his rookie season and seemed to be throwing the football with more velocity during OTAs and minicamp. ------------------------------------------------------------ from Rochester Democrat and Chronicle The former Pitt standout is smart and looked very good in mini-camp where he showed improved arm strength and accuracy. As I stated a few times already, if Peterman significantly improved his arm strength, that could be a game changer. But it would have to be a significant improvement. And muscle-mass doesn't necessarily mean he's developed those quick-twitch muscles an NFL QB has in his arm in order to release the ball quickly and with velocity. And if this is just the media watching him throw the ball around to his own teammates in shorts with no threat of being hit and using their own judgement on improved arm strength... well, I'll wait at least til the pads come on to start getting excited. Soooo... you're SaviorPeterman, riiiiight??? His last post was late February. You joined during the draft... actually the day after Josh Allen was drafted was when you became a member. Been to any high level business meetings lately? Edited June 23, 2018 by transplantbillsfan
LeGOATski Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: As I stated a few times already, if Peterman significantly improved his arm strength, that could be a game changer. But it would have to be a significant improvement. And muscle-mass doesn't necessarily mean he's developed those quick-twitch muscles an NFL QB has in his arm in order to release the ball quickly and with velocity. And if this is just the media watching him throw the ball around to his own teammates in shorts with no threat of being hit and using their own judgement on improved arm strength... well, I'll wait at least til the pads come on to start getting excited. Soooo... you're SaviorPeterman, riiiiight??? His last post was late February. You joined during the draft... actually the day after Josh Allen was drafted was when you became a member. Been to any high level business meetings lately? There was a thread a while ago about Peterman's training with Tom House to improve velocity. Not much detail was provided. Sounds like it wasn't about just adding muscle mass, though. He made his career working with pitchers, but has since helped NFL QBs Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, Matt Cassell and Terrelle Pryor. http://velocityplusarmcare.com/tom-house-million-dollar-arm/ Edited June 23, 2018 by LeGOATski
billsredneck1 Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 14 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: I agree with this. Hard to think otherwise. Assuming AJ starts and Josh Allen sits and learns, what do you do with Peterman? Keep him on the active roster or send him to the PS? If PS, good chance some other team picks him up; I would bet the some other team is NE. yep and if we cut brandon reilly, he'll probably also go to the pats and give us nightmares for years.
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 Hopefully he throws another three picks against the Ravens so we can firmly put him in his spot as a back up and move on from him.
transplantbillsfan Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 9 hours ago, LeGOATski said: There was a thread a while ago about Peterman's training with Tom House to improve velocity. Not much detail was provided. Sounds like it wasn't about just adding muscle mass, though. He made his career working with pitchers, but has since helped NFL QBs Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, Matt Cassell and Terrelle Pryor. http://velocityplusarmcare.com/tom-house-million-dollar-arm/ Yeah I saw that, I'm just skeptical of how much he improved it in thread 4 or 5 months the offseason was. But we shall see.
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