prissythecat Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: You could say the same thing about Shaq Lawson just as you could say the same for Austin Proehl. Peterman is in the same tier as Shaq Lawson in terms of relevance, so it is unlikely and would come as a surprise if he weren't on the team come week one. This kind of makes me speechless. 1
BurpleBull Posted June 12, 2018 Author Posted June 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: That whole 1st day of minicamp tea leaf reading was from you or someone there? They said that they had a plan and not once have they indicated that he wouldn’t start early. The Browns went on record. The Bills never said anything but “it’s a competition.” You and I clearly read that differently. If you get through the BS they are saying “as soon as we think Allen is ready we hand him the keys.” Now, that may not be day one but the rep count at minicamp couldn’t possibly be less relevant. He’s not the one that needs to “wow.” He already did “wow” which is why they traded up to get him. He just needs to show that he is ready. I'm pretty sure he would have to wow them for them to hand over the team to him this early in his NFL development. Having the physical tools and demeanor to work on his game and get better is what led them to draft him where they did, showing the ability to lead an offense against top tier NFL defenders is what they'll need to see to give him the nod over guys who have already experienced it this early on his career. Of course its a competition, they'll give Allen every opportunity to win the starting gig, but if things play out as they typically do with rookie QB's with that learning curve, they'll continue to bringing him along patiently until they feel he's all caught up.
CommonCents Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, prissythecat said: This kind of makes me speechless. It shouldn’t. Just look at Whaley’s draft history and you will better understand.
Luxy312 Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: I'm pretty sure he would have to wow them for them to hand over the team to him this early in his NFL development. Having the physical tools and demeanor to work on his game and get better is what led them to draft him where they did, showing the ability to lead an offense against top tier NFL defenders is what they'll need to see to give him the nod over guys who have already experienced it this early on his career. Of course its a competition, they'll give Allen every opportunity to win the starting gig, but if things play out as they typically do with rookie QB's with that learning curve, they'll continue to bringing him along patiently until they feel he's all caught up. Based on what? For the QB's drafted in the top ten in the last 20 years, 94% of them started in their first season with many starting day 1. Teams drafting that high and investing in that position are not having an "open competition". To boot, they traded up to get him. He clearly already "wow'd" them. If you start talking about what teams "typically do with rookie QB's", then you have to consider rookie QB's drafted EARLY. Based on facts (not your simple conjecture), the odds favor Allen starting this season at some point.
BurpleBull Posted June 12, 2018 Author Posted June 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, prissythecat said: This kind of makes me speechless. Yeah I know, because one was drafted in the 1st rd. and one wasn't right?
Thurman#1 Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) On 5/22/2018 at 7:16 AM, BurpleBull said: Nathan Peterman will win the starting QB position barring injury. He'll be much improved from last season. Excited about Josh Allen as the starting QB, but Peterman is the guy people aren't talking about right now who will have everyone talking by the end of training camp. He's worked on his mechanics, is said to have added velocity to his throws, has a lot to prove and is no stranger to struggling early in his career and picking himself up. A little talked about fact concerning Peterman is that he's right up there with Allen as Bills QB's who've scored high on the Wonderlic test for those who equate the test to mental sharpness. I still hold to the belief that Peterman was at the very least a third round prospect in his draft class. Peterman will be the guy. So this is how I have it panning out... 1. Peterman 2. McCarron 3. Allen With Allen at three for his protection as he starts out his young career. Certainly possible. Significantly more likely I think is: 1) McCarron 2) Peterman 3) Allen We'll see. 50 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: That whole 1st day of minicamp tea leaf reading was from you or someone there? They said that they had a plan and not once have they indicated that he wouldn’t start early. The Browns went on record. The Bills never said anything but “it’s a competition.” You and I clearly read that differently. If you get through the BS they are saying “as soon as we think Allen is ready we hand him the keys.” Now, that may not be day one but the rep count at minicamp couldn’t possibly be less relevant. He’s not the one that needs to “wow.” He already did “wow” which is why they traded up to get him. He just needs to show that he is ready. That's what people said after the Chargers spent the 4th pick and a whole bunch more on Rivers. But if Brees hadn't had that career-threatening knee injury, he'd probably still be starting in New Orleans. Clearly they wouldn't make Peterman or McCarron permanent without one of them becoming elite or very near to it. And yeah, that's not the way anyone sensible would bet unless the odds they got were very tempting indeed. But it could happen. I don't think it will but never rule out the unexpected but possible. Edited June 12, 2018 by Thurman#1
BurpleBull Posted June 12, 2018 Author Posted June 12, 2018 21 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: Wrong. If the Bills let Shaq Lawson go now, they would accelerate additional dead cap by another $3.2 million (counting $6.0 million instead of $2.8 million). There's now reason to let a high draft pick go at this point that actually showed potential in games last season. On the flip side, Peterman is basically playing on a league minimum contract for $600K and the team saves $400K by letting him go. Apples and oranges in terms of relevance. I'm talking potential and productivity. If they were to let Lawson go it would be due to what they see him failing to develop into down the road considering where he was drafted just as was the case with Sammy Watkins and Reggie Ragland. Of course cap figures will play a part, but it's what the players show on the field that will be the quick decider on how fast they move on from a player. Peterman is relevant in that he has potential just as Lawson, despite the difference in draft round selection, but especially when considering he plays at a position that's up in the air with a rookie and a vet with limited action as his competitors. Not an ill-conceived notion at all.
CommonCents Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 Just now, Thurman#1 said: Certainly possible. Significantly more likely I think is: 1) McCarron 2) Peterman 3) Allen We'll see. Any reasons why? AJ is basically an uknown, all we do know is that he was the last FA QB standing and got far less than the others. If you’re just basing it off of Peterman’s terrible performance why is Allen third? If they are determined to sit Allen I think it’s going to be a decent competition. I hope they simplify things for Allen and give him a fair chance at a job. I’d much rather watch him execute a run heavy offense and keep defenses honest with his arm than watch AJ or Peterman.
Luxy312 Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, BurpleBull said: I'm talking potential and productivity. If they were to let Lawson go it would be due to what they see him failing to develop into down the road considering where he was drafted just as was the case with Sammy Watkins and Reggie Ragland. Of course cap figures will play a part, but it's what the players show on the field that will be the quick decider on how fast they move on from a player. Peterman is relevant in that he has potential just as Lawson, despite the difference in draft round selection, but especially when considering he plays at a position that's up in the air with a rookie and a vet with limited action as his competitors. Not an ill-conceived notion at all. Very ill-conceived. Late draft picks don't get the same amount of rope that early draft picks do, especially quarterbacks.
BurpleBull Posted June 12, 2018 Author Posted June 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: Based on what? For the QB's drafted in the top ten in the last 20 years, 94% of them started in their first season with many starting day 1. Teams drafting that high and investing in that position are not having an "open competition". To boot, they traded up to get him. He clearly already "wow'd" them. If you start talking about what teams "typically do with rookie QB's", then you have to consider rookie QB's drafted EARLY. Based on facts (not your simple conjecture), the odds favor Allen starting this season at some point. Fair enough, but how many of them were considered "projects" leading up to the draft?
ALF Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 It's a competition between AJ and Peterman who will be the backup for Allen when he is ready.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: I'm pretty sure he would have to wow them for them to hand over the team to him this early in his NFL development. Having the physical tools and demeanor to work on his game and get better is what led them to draft him where they did, showing the ability to lead an offense against top tier NFL defenders is what they'll need to see to give him the nod over guys who have already experienced it this early on his career. Of course its a competition, they'll give Allen every opportunity to win the starting gig, but if things play out as they typically do with rookie QB's with that learning curve, they'll continue to bringing him along patiently until they feel he's all caught up. Those guys haven’t shown that yet!! That’s the point. They don’t have a guy that has had some NFL success. Both McCarron and Peterman have played but neither has been good. Do Peterman’s 52 career pass attempts (6 of which were intercepted) put him way ahead of Allen?!? Of course not!! Allen won’t be sitting early because of the other guy’s success. IF he sits early it’s because the Bills don’t think that he is ready. It has nothing to do with the experience of those in front of him. They are sacrificial lambs. They are there IN CASE Allen isn’t ready. That’s their role. 2
BurpleBull Posted June 12, 2018 Author Posted June 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: Very ill-conceived. Late draft picks don't get the same amount of rope that early draft picks do, especially quarterbacks. I'm talking Peterman specifically, based on his potential and QB situation specifically.
Behindenemylines Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 On 6/8/2018 at 9:55 AM, Juice_32 said: I wonder how much of him being "more decisive" has to do with his reported work in the off-season on his arm strength? The ball could be getting there faster simply because his noodle arm is more al dente than last year. We have seen a few positive reports on Peterman but I hadn't seen anything in particular about his arm strength. We may have to wait until the TBD camp reports to really know. "The ball could be getting there faster simply because his noodle arm is more al dente than last year..." This has to be the best line I've read all year! 1 1
Kirby Jackson Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Certainly possible. Significantly more likely I think is: 1) McCarron 2) Peterman 3) Allen We'll see. That's what people said after the Chargers spent the 4th pick and a whole bunch more on Rivers. But if Brees hadn't had that career-threatening knee injury, he'd probably still be starting in New Orleans. Clearly they wouldn't make Peterman or McCarron permanent without one of them becoming elite or very near to it. And yeah, that's not the way anyone sensible would bet unless the odds they got were very tempting indeed. But it could happen. I don't think it will but never rule out the unexpected but possible. Brees was also the 1st pick of the 2nd round and had a bunch of NCAA records. He, like Rivers, was projected as a franchise guy. McCarron and Peterman were not taken as franchise guys. You don’t have 163 and 190 guys drafted ahead of you if a team believes that you are “the answer” at QB. It’s a little apples and oranges.
Luxy312 Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: Fair enough, but how many of them were considered "projects" leading up to the draft? A lot of them were considered raw, but that doesn't make them a "project". Peterman is a project. Jeff Tuel was a project. Even EJ Manuel was a project IMO. There is no team in the NFL that trades up to #7 for a project. Peterman's leash at this point will be short compared even to McCarron. If all players come out of the preseason relatively equal, Allen will start. You can keep dodging reality and coming up with excuses, but it really won't matter all that much. 2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Brees was also the 1st pick of the 2nd round and had a bunch of NCAA records. He, like Rivers, was projected as a franchise guy. McCarron and Peterman were not taken as franchise guys. You don’t have 163 and 190 guys drafted ahead of you if a team believes that you are “the answer” at QB. It’s a little apples and oranges. It's apples to puppies. LOL. 1
26CornerBlitz Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Certainly possible. Significantly more likely I think is: 1) McCarron 2) Peterman 3) Allen We'll see. That's what people said after the Chargers spent the 4th pick and a whole bunch more on Rivers. But if Brees hadn't had that career-threatening knee injury, he'd probably still be starting in New Orleans. Clearly they wouldn't make Peterman or McCarron permanent without one of them becoming elite or very near to it. And yeah, that's not the way anyone sensible would bet unless the odds they got were very tempting indeed. But it could happen. I don't think it will but never rule out the unexpected but possible. It was a shoulder injury with Brees and there's no way he was going to stay with the Chargers in place of Rivers once they made the investment. The Chargers actually made out well in the deal as the NYG paid handsomely in the trade that landed them Eli.
BurpleBull Posted June 12, 2018 Author Posted June 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Those guys haven’t shown that yet!! That’s the point. They don’t have a guy that has had some NFL success. Both McCarron and Peterman have played but neither has been good. Do Peterman’s 52 career pass attempts (6 of which were intercepted) put him way ahead of Allen?!? Of course not!! Allen won’t be sitting early because of the other guy’s success. IF he sits early it’s because the Bills don’t think that he is ready. It has nothing to do with the experience of those in front of him. They are sacrificial lambs. They are there IN CASE Allen isn’t ready. That’s their role. Having experience gives an advantage to the experienced QB over the inexperienced QB. If Allen doesn't look ready, it'll likely be because he isn't ready, due to lack of experience. I don't think Allen will show that he's ready to be handed the reins this early on and I believe Nathan Peterman has a very good chance coming out of this thing being the guy better suited to lead the offense due to off-season development and improved play. I already suggested that it's Allen's job to lose when he shows that he's ready to take over as starter...but not before then. 1
BuffaloHokie13 Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 Just now, BurpleBull said: Having experience gives an advantage to the experienced QB over the inexperienced QB. If Allen doesn't look ready, it'll likely be because he isn't ready, due to lack of experience. I don't think Allen will show that he's ready to be handed the reins this early on and I believe Nathan Peterman has a very good chance coming out of this thing being the guy better suited to lead the offense due to off-season development and improved play. I already suggested that it's Allen's job to lose when he shows that he's ready to take over as starter...but not before then. And your thought is that he should continue to not get experience to remedy this? To be clear, if Allen started week 1 he would be our most experienced QB by week 5. 1
BurpleBull Posted June 12, 2018 Author Posted June 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: A lot of them were considered raw, but that doesn't make them a "project". Peterman is a project. Jeff Tuel was a project. Even EJ Manuel was a project IMO. There is no team in the NFL that trades up to #7 for a project. Peterman's leash at this point will be short compared even to McCarron. If all players come out of the preseason relatively equal, Allen will start. You can keep dodging reality and coming up with excuses, but it really won't matter all that much. It's apples to puppies. LOL. I agree. But if Allen looks shellshocked, confused, and overwhelmed then he won't start. Pretty obvious. I'm not talking "raw", I'm talking outright being referred to as a "project" by people in the media who cover NFL prospects. I think you're the one dodging the reality that Allen may not be as up to speed as soon as a lot of fans may hope for.
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