B-Man Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 .................... ......................... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 13 hours ago, joesixpack said: I hate that term. Only people who are willing to be oblivious to hypocrisy use it. Would "false moral equivalence" be easier for you to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PearlHowardman Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 On 6/21/2018 at 5:12 PM, Deranged Rhino said: This^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Would "false moral equivalence" be easier for you to understand? False by whose measure? It's not a false moral equivalence. People that think Trump's doing something wrong, when Hussein did the EXACT SAME THING WITHOUT OUTRAGE are displaying hypocrisy. Edited June 24, 2018 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Without comment.......................... Rep. Barbara Lee accuses Trump administration of ´criminalizing´ illegal immigrants by Valerie Richardson Original Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 1 hour ago, joesixpack said: False by whose measure? It's not a false moral equivalence. People that think Trump's doing something wrong, when Hussein did the EXACT SAME THING WITHOUT OUTRAGE are displaying hypocrisy. It is different because you're a racist for mentioning Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 19 minutes ago, B-Man said: Without comment.......................... Rep. Barbara Lee accuses Trump administration of ´criminalizing´ illegal immigrants by Valerie Richardson Original Article What the ACTUAL !@#$? Jesus H Christ on a cracker, what the !@#$ is wrong with these people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 1 hour ago, joesixpack said: False by whose measure? It's not a false moral equivalence. People that think Trump's doing something wrong, when Hussein did the EXACT SAME THING WITHOUT OUTRAGE are displaying hypocrisy. You still think Obama did the exact same thing in making it a policy to separate children from their parents when crossing the border illegally like Trump did after 37 pages? The media outrage is over the top and largely manufactured, but factually they are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 18 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: You still think Obama did the exact same thing in making it a policy to separate children from their parents when crossing the border illegally like Trump did after 37 pages? The media outrage is over the top and largely manufactured, but factually they are correct. We have an issue that has no solution without an act of Congress. Because of the Flores decision children cannot be housed with their illegal alien parents in a detention facility for more than 20 days. Trump administration was separating families because of this law (not even touching on the perils of keeping some of them with fake parent(s).) The surge in illegal crossings and requests for amnesty has overloaded our system. The administration knew that they couldn't process the children in 20 days and relocate them to family or sponsors. Now Trump has signed an EO mandating that the children stay with their parents until moved off to other family or sponsors. After 20 days it's an illegal EO and Trump knows it. Regardless of the media's attempt to keep this a shitstorm, the onus is now on Congress to do something about this. At some point in time the media either has to shut up or else they have to blame Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: You still think Obama did the exact same thing in making it a policy to separate children from their parents when crossing the border illegally like Trump did after 37 pages? The media outrage is over the top and largely manufactured, but factually they are correct. Hop in the wayback machine to 2014, you'll see what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Our laws on this matter are so convoluted. The simplest and most effective thing to do with people who enter illegally would be to let them use the bathroom, give them some water and maybe a meal send them back to where they originated in daylight hours. It really shouldn't be more complicated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Well, this is well thought out. Let's hurt the Mexican restaurants and employees because Trump officials shouldn't eat a taco. https://pjmedia.com/trending/npr-trump-admin-members-are-hypocrites-when-eating-at-mexican-restaurants/ It's come to this: according to some, people should be picking their casual dining choices based on their politics. NPR published an opinion piece by writer Monique Truong that claims in the headline that it is "hypocrisy" for administration members who support President Trump's way of handling the long-ignored border crisis to eat at Mexican restaurants. These are people who work for the president, of course, so they are essentially being taken to task for doing their jobs. Truong considers recent forays to Mexican food dining establishments by administration policy adviser Stephen Miller and Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen to be a "spectacle" that is "utterly galling to many Americans who object" to the recent policy of dealing with felony immigration offenders, which the president ended this week. Truong acknowledges the pervasiveness of "Mexican-inspired" food in the United States. I'm from Tucson, it's not called "Mexican food" here, it's just "food." She concedes that it is now part of the "American table" but sternly lectures that we should be "appalled" that people who aren't on board with open borders and illegal immigration should choose to spend their hard-earned money at a Mexican restaurant. Her tortured logic asserts that since Mexican restaurants have "back-of-the-house" staff that "came from Mexico or Central America, with or without documents," people who oppose illegal immigration are experiencing a "disconnect" when dining at these establishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 39 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Hop in the wayback machine to 2014, you'll see what I'm talking about. No. Go through the thread. Unaccompanied minors illegally crossing the border is different. 1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said: We have an issue that has no solution without an act of Congress. Because of the Flores decision children cannot be housed with their illegal alien parents in a detention facility for more than 20 days. Trump administration was separating families because of this law (not even touching on the perils of keeping some of them with fake parent(s).) The surge in illegal crossings and requests for amnesty has overloaded our system. The administration knew that they couldn't process the children in 20 days and relocate them to family or sponsors. Now Trump has signed an EO mandating that the children stay with their parents until moved off to other family or sponsors. After 20 days it's an illegal EO and Trump knows it. Regardless of the media's attempt to keep this a shitstorm, the onus is now on Congress to do something about this. At some point in time the media either has to shut up or else they have to blame Congress. That's a good summary of it. However, Trump just tweeted to Congress not to bother with an immigration bill until after the midterms. It's an interesting time we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PearlHowardman Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 4 hours ago, joesixpack said: It's not a false moral equivalence. People that think Trump's doing something wrong, when Hussein did the EXACT SAME THING WITHOUT OUTRAGE are displaying hypocrisy. This^ 2 hours ago, Doc Brown said: You still think Obama did the exact same thing in making it a policy to separate children from their parents when crossing the border illegally like Trump did after 37 pages? Separating illegal immigrant children from their illegal immigrant parents is not why this is a news item. Putting illegal immigrant children in fenced areas is why this is a news item. Both Obama and Trump did this. No outrage when Obama did it, though. 1 hour ago, keepthefaith said: Our laws on this matter are so convoluted. The simplest and most effective thing to do with people who enter illegally would be to let them use the bathroom, give them some water and maybe a meal send them back to where they originated in daylight hours. It really shouldn't be more complicated than that. You nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 24 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: No. Go through the thread. Unaccompanied minors illegally crossing the border is different. That's a good summary of it. However, Trump just tweeted to Congress not to bother with an immigration bill until after the midterms. It's an interesting time we live in. Trump was elected partially because of his immigration policy. He has gone a long way in fulfilling all of his promises. Immigration reform was one of his promises. The dems had been crying about DACA ever since Trump gave Congress a deadline to solve the issue. The courts stepped in and made that deadline moot. Then Trump offered the dems 2 1/2 times the amount of DACA recipients in a compromise. The dems have been running from a DACA fix ever since. They need it as an issue in the midterms and beyond. They don't want to fix it. Trump is right in saying "F" it, let's wait until after midterms when we will have more representation in the Senate, where the real hurdle lies. There's another reason too. His original deadline was overturned by the courts and there are reasons to believe that decision will be overturned. If that happens Trump will then have some meat to his new deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PearlHowardman Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 3 hours ago, B-Man said: Rep. Barbara Lee accuses Trump administration of ´criminalizing´ illegal immigrants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 3 hours ago, joesixpack said: What the ACTUAL !@#$? Jesus H Christ on a cracker, what the !@#$ is wrong with these people? Funny thing is, they are convinced you're the one with the problem, not them. You're the problem to this entire situation, and if we would just do away with borders altogether, everthing would be much better for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 5 hours ago, joesixpack said: It's not a false moral equivalence. People that think Trump's doing something wrong, when Hussein did the EXACT SAME THING WITHOUT OUTRAGE are displaying hypocrisy. But it's different because the Obama Administration with dealing with more important matters like defending one's right to pee in the toilet of their choice and filling out March Madness brackets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, PearlHowardman said: This^ Separating illegal immigrant children from their illegal immigrant parents is not why this is a news item. Putting illegal immigrant children in fenced areas is why this is a news item. Both Obama and Trump did this. No outrage when Obama did it, though. You nailed it. Yeah it is. Separating children from their parents hits an emotional chord with a lot of people. I'd much rather see the parent and child together in a detention center than separating them for an extended period of time. I remember how afraid I was sending my son to preschool. There was outrage by immigration activists when Obama used detaining families as a deterrent leading to them suing the administration and winning. I agree that the media chose to ignore this story for the most part, but the outcry wouldn't have been intense because the children were at least with their parent(s). USA Today reported in 2015 that Obama considered the same policy Trump implemented (separating parents from children as a deterrent), but thought it would look bad so they decided to just go with the "catch and release" policy. 6 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Trump was elected partially because of his immigration policy. He has gone a long way in fulfilling all of his promises. Immigration reform was one of his promises. The dems had been crying about DACA ever since Trump gave Congress a deadline to solve the issue. The courts stepped in and made that deadline moot. Then Trump offered the dems 2 1/2 times the amount of DACA recipients in a compromise. The dems have been running from a DACA fix ever since. They need it as an issue in the midterms and beyond. They don't want to fix it. Trump is right in saying "F" it, let's wait until after midterms when we will have more representation in the Senate, where the real hurdle lies. There's another reason too. His original deadline was overturned by the courts and there are reasons to believe that decision will be overturned. If that happens Trump will then have some meat to his new deadline. There was that televised meeting in January where Trump said after Feinstein suggested a clean DACA deal, "I would like to do that. Go ahead. I think a lot of people would like to see that, but I think we have to do DACA first." That could be a soundbite the Dems will play leading to the midterms. Republicans are smart to make immigration a midterm issue because Democrats have lost their minds when it comes to border security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Republicans are smart to make immigration a midterm issue because Democrats have lost their minds when it comes to border security. They haven't lost their minds so much as they have decided to side with the far, far left which is, essentially, a desire for open borders. We consider that losing their minds. They consider it perfectly normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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