Gary M Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:05 PM, HappyDays said: You believe that this human rights abuse is okay because of the possibility that some of them are criminals? Expand They are all criminals, they are entering my country illegally.
Warren Zevon Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:15 PM, Gary M said: They are all criminals, they are entering my country illegally. Expand No, they're not all criminals. It's not your country.
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:11 PM, HappyDays said: This is not a principle that should ever be employed in America. "Ah we don't know for sure that this person isn't a human trafficker. Best to rip the crying child away from them and sort it out in a couple months." Expand People coming here illegally are criminals. We have every right, and more, responsibility to detain them. Because of the nature of the circumstance, and the nature of the evil being combated, this is the best and most humane way to vet the situation. Do the research, Happy. Learn how vast the problem is in scope. Understand how the trafficking rings work. Then present me with a solution.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:11 PM, HappyDays said: This is not a principle that should ever be employed in America. "Ah we don't know for sure that this person isn't a human trafficker. Best to rip the crying child away from them and sort it out in a couple months." Expand See Tom's quote above. You're arguing that because some real families will be temporarily separated, we shouldn't save the kids being trafficked by separating them from the adults pretending to be their parents. Talk about savage. That's horrendous logic, and EXACTLY why they want you mindlessly pushing this political (not compassion based) attack. They think you're stupid, Gary. Don't prove them right.
DC Tom Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:15 PM, ALF said: I honestly had no idea , I do trust you as a good source of information. I really am sad to hear this. Expand Three things I know about DR, knowing him outside of this board. 1) He's nuts. Benignly so ..but still... 2) He does have real and good sources. 3) He can't explain turbulence. 1
Albwan Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:16 PM, peace out said: No, they're not all criminals. It's not your country. Expand Its not theirs, either. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:15 PM, ALF said: I honestly had no idea , I do trust you as a good source of information. I really am sad to hear this. Expand I didn't either. I thought it was bull **** like Gary and Happy. Then I went out and saw it myself. I talked to the victims. I talked to the traffickers. I talked to the LEOs who make these raids every night in SoCal. The worst part is the systemic nature of this. It's everywhere. Not just in SoCal. And it's everywhere because many institutions which are supposed to protect children are horribly compromised by those who prey on children. There's a national conversation about this coming, it won't be pretty and it won't be easy for anyone. But it has to happen because there are children today who we could help if we only were aware of their plight.
DC Tom Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:17 PM, Deranged Rhino said: See Tom's quote above. You're arguing that because some real families will be temporarily separated, we shouldn't save the kids being trafficked by separating them from the adults pretending to be their parents. Talk about savage. That's horrendous logic, and EXACTLY why they want you mindlessly pushing this political (not compassion based) attack. They think you're stupid, Gary. Don't prove them right. Expand That wasn't my point. My point was simply that he's making an argument that's !@#$ed sideways. "We must endanger the children to protect the children!" That's not even an argument. It's ignorant, lazy, emotional manipulation. 1
Prickly Pete Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:11 PM, HappyDays said: This is not a principle that should ever be employed in America. "Ah we don't know for sure that this person isn't a human trafficker. Best to rip the crying child away from them and sort it out in a couple months." Expand You keep throwing around "months"...I wonder what the true average time is. And the age of the kids there for months. And of the kids there for months, the status of the people they were apprehended with. These things matter.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:18 PM, DC Tom said: Three things I know about DR, knowing him outside of this board. 1) He's nuts. Benignly so ..but still... 2) He does have real and good sources. 3) He can't explain turbulence. Expand Can confirm. 1
DC Tom Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:16 PM, peace out said: No, they're not all criminals. It's not your country. Expand They're here illegally. They're criminals BY DEFINITION. 3
Deranged Rhino Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:21 PM, DC Tom said: That wasn't my point. My point was simply that he's making an argument that's !@#$ed sideways. "We must endanger the children to protect the children!" That's not even an argument. It's ignorant, lazy, emotional manipulation. Expand There was supposed to be a line break - stupid Siri. Meant it as an aside, not as a tie in to my thought.
DC Tom Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:22 PM, OJ Tom said: You keep throwing around "months"...I wonder what the true average time is. And the age of the kids there for months. And of the kids there for months, the status of the people they were apprehended with. These things matter. Expand About 45 days, from what I've heard. But I'm starting to think that's a lie, and it's probably less.
Albwan Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:21 PM, Deranged Rhino said: I didn't either. I thought it was bull **** like Gary and Happy. Then I went out and saw it myself. I talked to the victims. I talked to the traffickers. I talked to the LEOs who make these raids every night in SoCal. The worst part is the systemic nature of this. It's everywhere. Not just in SoCal. And it's everywhere because many institutions which are supposed to protect children are horribly compromised by those who prey on children. There's a national conversation about this coming, it won't be pretty and it won't be easy for anyone. But it has to happen because there are children today who we could help if we only were aware of their plight. Expand too logical and true, cmon, most of us know this whole thing is a back door for trump hate, and nothing more. There would be zero outrage if this was during the obama administration in which case no one would even know about it. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 8:58 PM, HappyDays said: Those children are screaming because they were ripped from the arms of their sex traffickers, dont you know? Everyone in this thread should listen to the Pro Publica audio. It's really bad. There is no excuse for this. Expand lol shaun king, NOPE. may as well ring up Chairman Mao.
Prickly Pete Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:22 PM, DC Tom said: They're here illegally. They're criminals BY DEFINITION. Expand Yeah, a few guys are apprehended with a group of children, sneaking across an international border, and the immigration officers are supposed to take their word!
IDBillzFan Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:14 PM, Deranged Rhino said: I know people involved in these raids personally. Have spent time with them. Seen the evidence they collected in the aftermath of several raids. Guess what they discovered about how a lot of these kids got into the country? https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-announces-results-of-operation-cross-country-xi http://abc7.com/hundreds-arrested-in-human-trafficking-crackdown-in-ca/3007899/ http://fox5sandiego.com/2018/01/31/29-men-arrested-in-sex-trafficking-sting/ Expand On 6/18/2018 at 9:05 PM, HappyDays said: You're literally making this all up Expand On 6/18/2018 at 9:05 PM, peace out said: It's pathetic and not worth responding to. Expand Just saving the resident lefties some time. 1
DC Tom Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) On 6/18/2018 at 9:24 PM, Albwan said: too logical and true, cmon, most of us know this whole thing is a back door for trump hate, and nothing more. There would be zero outrage if this was during the obama administration in which case no one would even know about it. Expand The proof of that is that this is the second time they've tried to push this "Trump abuses children" spin on this story. The first time didn't gain traction because they used footage from the Obama administration. This is the most blatantly obvious manipulation I've ever seen. On 6/18/2018 at 9:26 PM, LABillzFan said: Just saving the resident lefties some time. Expand You forgot gatorman: "Paint chips are only a sometimes food!" Edited June 18, 2018 by DC Tom 1
Deranged Rhino Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:24 PM, Albwan said: too logical and true, cmon, most of us know this whole thing is a back door for trump hate, and nothing more. There would be zero outrage if this was during the obama administration in which case no one would even know about it. Expand That nails it. All the people upset and worried about the children have their hearts in the right place. They're just unaware of the larger context and real issue because they're being led by partisans rather than people who actually care about the issue. And yes - there is partisan rhetoric on both (all) sides on this issue, it's not just the left. Part of me thinks the reason this is being made into an issue by the administration (and they are making this an issue by enforcing the law, no doubt about it) IS to draw attention to this larger topic.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 18, 2018 Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 9:11 PM, HappyDays said: This is not a principle that should ever be employed in America. "Ah we don't know for sure that this person isn't a human trafficker. Best to rip the crying child away from them and sort it out in a couple months." Expand Best solution? TURN EVERYONE AT THE BORDER AWAY. That way no one has to be separated from their parents.
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