Sad day. Tim Graham out at Buffalo News

[sullim4]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It shouldn't be, and if you are taking it that way then that is your problem and not his, unless you are critiquing his tweet that is an evaluation of a sports issue, and not an exchange with fans. Granted, I will give you the benefit of the doubt on they are not completely the same - the chef and the sportswriter - because the Chef's job of cooking has zero to do with typing words on Twitter. But it is the same thing because if a sportswriter is typing things on twitter it should be construed the same way the Chef's exchange with his fan base or customers or random obnoxious crapthrowers is: Nothing to do with how well he does his job.

 

That's what I'm doing.  I honestly don't care about his interactions with fans.  But when he tweets a photo with a bunch of former Bills, including Jimbo fresh off of cancer surgery, it's news.  It's not news that warrants its own article, but it's news nonetheless.

 

The journalistic standards of his employer thus apply imo... and it's not a good look to call someone a "convicted rapist" when said individual wasn't actually convicted of rape.  Sure, "alleged rapist" is fine, or even the more generic "sexual assaulter", but the "convicted rapist" phrase has a distinct meaning and it's journalism 101 not to tag someone with a specific crime unless they were actually convicted of it.

 

It's extremely common for beat writers to tweet news instead of writing an article... and when Graham tweets news like the example above, it speaks to his credibility and character as a journalist.

 

I agree that the way he treats his followers is a separate matter unrelated to his abilities as a journalist; although if I was TBN, and hurting for subscribers, I'd be itching to get rid of someone who treats his or her readers in this way.  It's not exactly good for business.

[Kelly the Dog]

6 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

So every restaurant I would like is automatically worse in your hyperbole? Same with every other piss poor example? Because the underlying issue is a person's character, which you are failing to acknowledge being the foundation of the issue.

 

You're right tho, the guy who serves the best burger in town is racist and anti-Semitic, but I should eat there, because compartmentalizing is key!

 

Especislly considering how much of an extreme you are trying to take this to. I mean I can sit here and ask why you chose to support people that align them selves with Harvey Weinstein, all because they may make a better movie? Regardless of nature of what takes place, you still support an industry that allows sexual predators to reign over? 

 

In the context none of hose things truly apply to Tim being in an industry where he makes a living off of crizitizing other, but cant then him self take it back.

By all means, IMO, you should avoid a restaurant if you believe that the Chef is racist and anti-Semitic. Talk about hyperbole. I was talking about simple differences of opinion or thin skin that have nothing to do with the job. The Harvey Weinstein case had everything to do with his job. 

2 minutes ago, sullim4 said:

 

That's what I'm doing.  I honestly don't care about his interactions with fans.  But when he tweets a photo with a bunch of former Bills, including Jimbo fresh off of cancer surgery, it's news.  It's not news that warrants its own article, but it's news nonetheless.

 

The journalistic standards of his employer thus apply imo... and it's not a good look to call someone a "convicted rapist" when said individual wasn't actually convicted of rape.  Sure, "alleged rapist" is fine, or even the more generic "sexual assaulter", but the "convicted rapist" phrase has a distinct meaning and it's journalism 101 not to tag someone with a specific crime unless they were actually convicted of it.

 

It's extremely common for beat writers to tweet news instead of writing an article... and when Graham tweets news like the example above, it speaks to his credibility and character as a journalist.

 

I agree that the way he treats his followers is a separate matter unrelated to his abilities as a journalist; although if I was TBN, and hurting for subscribers, I'd be itching to get rid of someone who treats his or her readers in this way.  It's not exactly good for business.

I agree that the particular example that you used may have been entirely unwarranted, although like "Danny" McBride said above, I would like to know more about behind the scenes of it before I pass judgment. Something is atwitter there.

 

But no one who is arguing either way is basing it on that tweet. People have been jumping all over TG since before he was a member here for his thin skin and personality outside of his writing skills. 

[BringBackOrton]

3 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

That actually sucks. Tim was and is a very good sportswriter. People here conflate his twitter and TSW persona with his professional skills.

Yeah that does suck.  People also conflate Kim Jung Il's reign as a murderous dictator with his beautiful singing voice.

 

Such a shame.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Yeah that does suck.  People also conflate Kim Jung Il's reign as a murderous dictator with his beautiful singing voice.

  

Such a shame.

What's the Godwin's Law equivalent for comparisons to the Kim family?

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Yeah that does suck.  People also conflate Kim Jung Il's reign as a murderous dictator with his beautiful singing voice.

 

Such a shame.

Well, our President actually does. That's the one and only political reference, because it was in a response to one, so please do not let this get political fellas. One and done.

[dave mcbride]

55 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

 

I didn't see him taking an ESPN gig. He left the News years ago for an ESPN gig, later went to Miami I think and then back to the Bills. But I haven't seen that he has a new job yet.

I completely misread this post on page 3, not noting the date. Apologies. Perhaps it was about Vic after all. 

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

Well, our President actually does. That's the one and only political reference, because it was in a response to one, so please do not let this get political fellas. One and done.

You got your Kim's wrong. Il has been dead for a while now.

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I completely misread this post on page 3, not noting the date. Apologies. Perhaps it was about Vic after all. 

 

 

 

No apologies necessary. I kind of assumed it was a quick glance at that post.

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

You got your Kim's wrong. Il has been dead for a while now.

I got it. I was referring to the murderous dictator and let's ignore all that because he's a "funny guy" - "loves his people" stuff.

[stony]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I completely misread this post on page 3, not noting the date. Apologies. Perhaps it was about Vic after all. 

 

 

Vic's part of the old boys network.  Vic covered the team in the glory days.  Terry is as nostalgic as they come.  Terry runs the BN.  

 

I'll take off my tin hat now.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

3 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

this is what we all wanted, right?

 

No local sports reporting?

 

If local sports reporting involves columnists with poor attitudes, plenty of arrogance and disdain for the fans, then yes, we all don't want that.

 

Now the BN has a chance to retool and to give writers a chance to shine that will treat the market better than their predecessors.

[Lurker]

5 minutes ago, stony said:

I'll take off my tin hat now.

 

Too late.   It appears to be permanently affixed...   

[Kelly the Dog]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I think it's very bad that the paper is destroying itself, but the timing of this and the Vic Carucci-related tweet are pretty suspicious. I mean, christ, Graham just did a huge suite of stories on Josh freaking Allen, the QB of the future, a guy who is going to be the centerpiece of Buffalo sports reporting for the next half decade. It certainly didn't look like he was being eased out. It may be the case,  however, that the newsroom was poisonous (not surprising given the layoffs) and he grabbed the new ESPN gig as soon as it became available to get out. Unlike JS and BG, he may actually have chosen to leave.

Well you're right even when you don't know you are right, McBride!

 

 

 

[IDBillzFan]

40 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I am calling BS on your line of argument here. This is an objectively good piece by a sportswriter, one that the Sal Capaccios of the world are incapable of writing because they either don't know jack about water politics in California or aren't curious enough to connect it to the player. http://buffalonews.com/2018/05/19/you-bloom-where-youre-planted-the-cultivation-of-josh-allen-part-1/

 

As for their being a ton of TV shows, what's your point? Is the world somehow just as a good a place if the shows all suck? Quality is a good thing in life.

 

Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if these Allen pieces were an audition for a bigger and better job at an outlet that isn't currently self-imploding and in fact already went through it's personnel crisis (i.e., ESPN). 

 

It may be the case, of course, that the Carucci thing made him persona non grata there too. (And there may be a story behind that as well related to the other guys who are gone.)

 

Okay, first of all, you aren't going to do a story about Josh Allen's history without coming across the CA water politics tie. You're just not. All you have to ask Allen,  "Tell us about your family and growing up in Central CA" and presto, CA water politics is introduced because that entire region is devastated because of a freaking minnow. If you live anywhere near CA, you know about the delta smelt. Nothing special in Graham's discussion of it.

 

My point about TV shows is that bad TV shows exist because people watch them. There will always be an audience for TV, even it it's bad. When they suddenly cancelled "Vengeance Unlimited," I didn't stop watching TV. I just started watching something that wasn't as good. And when Tim Graham stops writing about sports, we won't stop reading sports articles. We'll just read more Capaccio.

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

My point about TV shows is that bad TV shows exist because people watch them. There will always be an audience for TV, even it it's bad. When they suddenly cancelled "Vengeance Unlimited," I didn't stop watching TV. I just started watching something that wasn't as good. And when Tim Graham stops writing about sports, we won't stop reading sports articles. We'll just read more Capaccio.

3

You could say that about virtually anything that is big or popular in any profession.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, LABillzFan said:

 

Okay, first of all, you aren't going to do a story about Josh Allen's history without coming across the CA water politics tie. You're just not. All you have to ask Allen,  "Tell us about your family and growing up in Central CA" and presto, CA water politics is introduced because that entire region is devastated because of a freaking minnow. If you live anywhere near CA, you know about the delta smelt. Nothing special in Graham's discussion of it.

 

My point about TV shows is that bad TV shows exist because people watch them. There will always be an audience for TV, even it it's bad. When they suddenly cancelled "Vengeance Unlimited," I didn't stop watching TV. I just started watching something that wasn't as good. And when Tim Graham stops writing about sports, we won't stop reading sports articles. We'll just read more Capaccio.

I disagree with the first part - a great many sportswriters (especially of the ex-jock variety) are pretty clueless about matters beyond sports and the hometown they live in, and the new breed of data hounds would have subjected us to a five-part series on his accuracy throwing screens, square-ins, deep outs, and bombs. And they would have interviewed 16 QB camp coaches to reinforce whatever point they were trying to make. 

[Delete This Account]

19 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

No sh##ty reporting.

 

if you're so good at it, why don't you give it a shot.

you spend a lot of time on this board complaining about how biased and one-sided the reporting is at The Buffalo News, that all  they put out are negative stories.

well, look in the mirror promo, you are the hypocrite doing exactly the same, but with far less nuance or skill.

it's only predictable that you landed on the first page of this thread. i can only imagine how you must have scrambled to open up your computer and pen some real witty retort to pile on and make your voice heard.

and all we got was this dud of a response.

par for the course.

 

yup, you know sh#t all right.

 

jw

Edited June 14, 2018 by john wawrow

[IDBillzFan]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I disagree with the first part - a great many sportswriters (especially of the ex-jock variety) are pretty clueless about matters beyond sports and the hometown they live in, and the new breed of data hounds would have subjected us to a five-part series on his accuracy throwing screens, square-ins, deep outs, and bombs. And they would have interviewed 16 QB camp coaches to reinforce whatever point they were trying to make. 

 

What Graham wrote was a feature piece on Allen. Any journalist doing a feature piece on Allen tells the delta smelt story. If they don't, they're not writing a feature piece of Allen. 

[purple haze]

Unfortunate.  He's very a very good writer.  Could be thin-skinned, but that has nothing to do with the quality of his work.  He'll land a gig soon enough.  

 

The real question is what what will come of the News?  At least it's sports coverage.   The conglomeratization of news and other industries is not a good thing.  At all.

Edited June 13, 2018 by purple haze

[SDS]

There are a lot of bad takes in this thread. It was clear by timing of the announcement, and then further confirmed by Tim, this was not a part of the original cost cutting measures.  If he was fired or nudged out it was because of something or multiple things that happened after the restructuring.

 

When I heard the news it was clear to me that he had been very upset that certain writers who were let go, the reasoning behind them being let go,  and with the recent dustup with Vic and the deleting of that tweet, it’s clear there was some acrimony behind the scenes. He never struck me as a fall in line to kind of guy

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

There are a ton of teachers and there are a ton of good teachers, and it's a hard job. There are a ton of carpenters and there are a ton of good carpenters, and it's a hard job. There are a ton of politicians but there are relatively few good politicians, and it is a hard job. There are a ton of sportswriters but there are relatively few good sportswriters, and it is a hard job.

 

Graham is good at his job, which is a hard job, and which there are relatively few who do it consistently well, regardless of whether you hate him for his personality.

 

 

...so then is this yet another financial move along with Sullivan and Bucky?......seems strange you would dump three from the Sports Dept with no apparent replacement plan in place...maybe Bob from Accountemps is on the way..........