World Cup 2018 Thread

[meazza]

2 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Pogba didn't leave Man United for Juventus because of the money, he left because of the playing time and Ferguson wasn't giving him the time. He wasn't being taken seriously at United. He went to Juventus to prove he could play. His only problem at United now is Mourinho and the system he plays requires Pogba to play defensively much much more and doesn't have Kante and Matuidi next to him.

 

And his return to United was at the time the largest transfer fee in all of Football. The Premiership has plenty of money and has some of the richest teams in Europe.  

 

The EPL may have some of the richest clubs but not necessarily well managed.

 

remember that pogba went to juve for free from United and then went back to United for 90m. Hell of a deal 

[Wayne Cubed]

11 minutes ago, meazza said:

 

The EPL may have some of the richest clubs but not necessarily well managed.

 

remember that pogba went to juve for free from United and then went back to United for 90m. Hell of a deal 

 

Some of them definitely aren't well managed. 

 

I think some of what attracts players to Barcelona and Real Madrid, is they are such a staple and have such a following that the EPL doesn't have really outside of England, especially for players from South America. These players grow up dreaming of playing for Barcelona or Real Madrid, not necessarily Man City or Chelsea.

[Wayne Cubed]

18 hours ago, row_33 said:

Some of the best didn’t bother coming to the WC and many of the best didn’t care much when they got here 

 

its ALL about the $$$ and the club and Champions League now, the WC barely interests the best in the game

 

a shame

 

EPL begins August 10, when they really m start to care

 

 

 

Uh what?!? Who didn't come? There were a few snubs from teams that I saw like Leroy Sane/Mario Goetze for Germany, Lacazzette for France (although can you blame them?), Icardi for Argentina. A lot had to do with injury and fit with the club, not because they didn't want to come. And were they really the best? You still had the top 3 goal scorers from the EPL , La Liga and Ligue One and the top scorer from Bundesliga. The only one missing is Icardi from Serie A and that is apparently because of Messi not liking him.

 

Again, the best were absolutely there.

[Fadingpain]

9 hours ago, Commonsense said:

I watched a good number of the elimination games and I didn’t see any players looking disinterested out there. I’m just a once every four years type of soccer fan but I thought the final was great. I wanted Croatia to win but it was a good match, some hard play and not too many flops. France was the better team, if Croatia was able to score in the first 10 minutes or so while they controlled play perhaps the game would have been different. 

 

I would watch that that game more often than every four years, I don’t enjoy watching Neymar and company do barrel rolls down the field. The goal scorer for Croatia played his heart out, is he in a big time soccer league? Seems like a heck of a player.

You talking about Mario Mandzukic?  He scored the second goal for Croatia.  He is a superstar playing on one of the best club teams in the world, Juventus, from Torino, Italy.

 

Or are you talking about the first goal scorer, Ivan Perisic?  He is another top player currently playing for Iter Milan, also a historically top team in Italian Serie A.

 

Croatia also has Luka Modric, superstar for Real Madrid, maybe the best club team in the world right now, Ivan Rakitic, star for FC Barcelona (another absolutely top club team in the world)...and others.

 

It's INCREDIBLE that a little country the size of metro Detroit is THAT loaded with superstar talent at the same time.

 

 

[GoBills808]

15 hours ago, sodbuster said:

This isn't exactly accurate. Pogba plays for Manchester United, Mendy plays for City, Kante and Giroud play for Chelsea, Lloris keeps for Tottenham. The two teams in the third place match Saturday could nearly field a starting 11 made of just United and Tottenham players. Heck, Kane won the Boot this year.

 

The EPL has some of the richest teams in Europe. They struggle for two big reasons. They don't get the midwinter break that other leagues get, and the league is more competitive as of late.

I also think Premier league teams tend to view winning their league as at least as important as a Champions League title, unlike say Real Madrid who pours everything they have into CL (especially once Barcelona lock up La Liga) or even top Ligue 1 or Serie A sides...seems like the English place significantly more importance on domestic success than other countries, for whatever that's worth. Champions League is glamorous and attracts international attention and $$$, domestic titles are grittier and play better for the hardcore supporters and local/national fans. I also think ownership has a lot to do with how the top clubs approach a season with respect to international vs domestic success, if a side like PSG for example spends a ton on name brand stars and wants to be seen as a top flight organization internationally, they're going to prioritize the Champions League title at least on par with winning their domestic league to gain international legitimacy.

[CommonCents]

2 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

You talking about Mario Mandzukic?  He scored the second goal for Croatia.  He is a superstar playing on one of the best club teams in the world, Juventus, from Torino, Italy.

 

Or are you talking about the first goal scorer, Ivan Perisic?  He is another top player currently playing for Iter Milan, also a historically top team in Italian Serie A.

 

Croatia also has Luka Modric, superstar for Real Madrid, maybe the best club team in the world right now, Ivan Rakitic, star for FC Barcelona (another absolutely top club team in the world)...and others.

 

It's INCREDIBLE that a little country the size of metro Detroit is THAT loaded with superstar talent at the same time.

 

 

Mandzukic. He is a beast. One of the most enjoyable guys I have watched play soccer. That 19 y/o from France also looks special. Amateur perspective. If all soccer games looked like that I would watch.

 

 

[stony]

18 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

EPL has won 1 champions league in 10 years. They are the most balanced/deep league but haven't competed well in champions league for years. Simply don't have the money. That's why Ronaldo leaves Manchester United for Real. Pogba leaves for Juventus.

 

The last player to win the ballon D'or from the premier league was Michael Owen in 2001

 

Like 3 players in the finals today play in the EPL.

This is incorrect. The EPL is the richest league by far, and is oft-criticized for over-paying players.  Pogba left MU because Fergie didn't rate him, he came back for the money.

 

As far as the best players going to Barca or Madrid, there's some truth in this.  Especially Latino players.  They can compete with the spending power in England, and appeal from a language/lifestyle perspective for South American players.   It's pretty simple, the best Germans tend to go to Munich, the best Spaniards stay in Spain.    

 

The lack of English success in the Champions League is a tough one.  Some blame the lack of winter break in England i.e. fatigue, others think the style of play is dated.  The influx of foreign managers (Pep, Klopp etc) has kind of muted the latter excuse.   

 

To your last point, if Belgium wins vs France, literally their entire team plays in the EPL.  Obviously England...

 

 

[Bing Bong]

2 hours ago, stony said:

This is incorrect. The EPL is the richest league by far, and is oft-criticized for over-paying players.  Pogba left MU because Fergie didn't rate him, he came back for the money.

 

As far as the best players going to Barca or Madrid, there's some truth in this.  Especially Latino players.  They can compete with the spending power in England, and appeal from a language/lifestyle perspective for South American players.   It's pretty simple, the best Germans tend to go to Munich, the best Spaniards stay in Spain.    

 

The lack of English success in the Champions League is a tough one.  Some blame the lack of winter break in England i.e. fatigue, others think the style of play is dated.  The influx of foreign managers (Pep, Klopp etc) has kind of muted the latter excuse.   

 

To your last point, if Belgium wins vs France, literally their entire team plays in the EPL.  Obviously England...

 

 

You're right, I was just being a moron and overreacting to row. I think I was trying to make the joke that maybe he didn't see his "stars" in the world cup because the EPL is all he watches lol. "Who is this Modric fella? They couldn't get any EPL croatians? They must all be gearing up for ENGLISH FOOTBALL" But I was hammered and butchered it.

 

EPL has been hamstrung IMO because they have the most stringent domestic player policy. They upped it to like 6 players on the field have to be of English nationality. Really sucks, the English talent gets overpriced and England and they never move to the continent because any half decent English player has to start for the top flight clubs (just from my football manager experience I never manage in the EPL because it's so annoying.) Basically a guy like Raheem Sterling is world class but gets paid Messi money because he's not only a monster but doesn't limit your foreign player count. He's great, but overpaid nevertheless. 

 

EPL as a league has to have the most money across all teams, and they can splurge, but Bayern, Real, Barca, PSG, and Monaco have waaaay more money. Chelsea with Hazard and Liverpool with Sterling can definitely throw a punch in Champions League, but they are forced to overspend on English players. 

 

And to someone's point above combine all that with the fact that EPL as a whole is way stronger than the other leagues. A midtable EPL team could throttle mid table Spanish team. So EPL is more entertaining as a league because the Chelsea's and Liverpool's still get beat up by mid tier teams any given Saturday. The parity bites them because over in Spain, Real can have any domestic players from their youth system beat up on the bottom teams, they can afford to spend a crapload on Bale and only play him in champions league when the domestic limit is off.

 

And mix in the fact that England has been painstakingly slow to leave Alex Ferguson's 4-4-2 success behind them and adapt to new tactics, they make bad decisons: Pogba leaves the Man U reserves to be the best player on champions league winning Juventus. Choose Rooney over Ronaldo because of the domestic player affect (you keep Ronaldo at all costs foreign player limit be damned).

 

And the other leagues really aren't a slouch. Spanish league and French teams are poor quality outside of the top clubs. But Italy's Serie A and Bundesliga have depth too. Bayern, Juve, Real, Barca still take their league very seriously, but they've just consistently beaten EPL recently as well. They're always looking for a treble, no small feat when Dortmund, Barca, AC, Inter knocking at your door. PSG is really the only team that can nap through the domestic league.

 

That said I read statistically Bundesliga has the most parity, but just not as good as EPL. -Long winded post from a football manager addict. I've won a few champions leagues myself with Napoli. Don't sleep on a good soccer manager boys.

[Bing Bong]

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I also think Premier league teams tend to view winning their league as at least as important as a Champions League title, unlike say Real Madrid who pours everything they have into CL (especially once Barcelona lock up La Liga) or even top Ligue 1 or Serie A sides...seems like the English place significantly more importance on domestic success than other countries, for whatever that's worth. Champions League is glamorous and attracts international attention and $$$, domestic titles are grittier and play better for the hardcore supporters and local/national fans. I also think ownership has a lot to do with how the top clubs approach a season with respect to international vs domestic success, if a side like PSG for example spends a ton on name brand stars and wants to be seen as a top flight organization internationally, they're going to prioritize the Champions League title at least on par with winning their domestic league to gain international legitimacy.

I disagree on some points. Barca coaches lose their jobs if they can't beat Atletico or Real consistently (even with a champions league win!). The parity isn't there but that's as fierce a rivalry you'll ever see. The whole catalonian/Madrid identity makes the Barca real games feel downright international. Dortmund and Bayern's rivalry really reveal the North South cultural division in Germany (southern Germans have the funny Austrian like names). And boy serie a used to be top of the world. Now it feels like they take turns pumping out a champions league contender between AC Milan, Inter Milan (you don't think they take that rivalry to another level??) Juve, Roma.

 

I'll give you PSG. Kind of lame when Superstars go there and face little threat. But Monaco is spending crazy money and building a fun team.

 

EPL may be more focused on winning the league. But they weren't like that in Man U and Chelsea's and Arsenal's heyday. All about that treble. ARSENAL WENT UNDEFEATED ONE YEAR, got the treble, one of the greatest teams a time. But when they were REALLY struggling in champions league 3 or 4 years ago they lost like 3 spots, sending 3 teams that were waay out classed by Barca's tiki take, and Bayern's Robben and Ribery era (2 teams with the majority of their respective WC winning country stars). They didn't stand a chance. Of course they're going to cut their losses and at least go for the EPL when that's all they have a shot at.

 

-signed: a FIFA addict that never saw EPL teams on online play from 2010-2015. The difference in play if you're Chelsea vs Bayern would infuriate me. No matter how good I was a lesser player could just spam Robben and Ribery down the flanks and wreck me, while I'm stuck shooting 40 ft shots with slow ass Lampard.

[Bing Bong]

14 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Uh what?!? Who didn't come? There were a few snubs from teams that I saw like Leroy Sane/Mario Goetze for Germany, Lacazzette for France (although can you blame them?), Icardi for Argentina. A lot had to do with injury and fit with the club, not because they didn't want to come. And were they really the best? You still had the top 3 goal scorers from the EPL , La Liga and Ligue One and the top scorer from Bundesliga. The only one missing is Icardi from Serie A and that is apparently because of Messi not liking him.

 

Again, the best were absolutely there.

Gotze wasn't called up because he's been really out of form. To the point were 19 year old PULISIC! (I live vicariously through him) was starting over him.

 

Gotze was the hero the 2014 finals. He's crushed he didn't get called up. He certainly didn't choose not to go.. such a ridiculous statement by row. sweet Jesus row.. love you man but your off the wall sports leagues opinions are so weird.

[Bing Bong]

15 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Some of them definitely aren't well managed. 

 

I think some of what attracts players to Barcelona and Real Madrid, is they are such a staple and have such a following that the EPL doesn't have really outside of England, especially for players from South America. These players grow up dreaming of playing for Barcelona or Real Madrid, not necessarily Man City or Chelsea.

They also have the best developmental training in the world. Barca is the team that brought up Fabregas, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi. The style of play fits south American players like a glove. They love the touches and passes, and obviously want to play with these guys over who... Old Lampard and Gerrard playing ugly 4-4-2 soccer that revolves around kicking direct corner balls and chasing and getting the crap beaten out of you as a result? (Not fun I loathed playing CM in 4-4-2, the difference is quite striking, Modric wouldn't be free to play the way he does in that formation, he'd be a poor player with no help in the middle).  Easy decision.

 

Italian and German leagues are fond of their south American players too. The ones that do play in the EPL need a coach that will accommodate their play. Notice how poorly EPL players on Brazil perform, they're playing a completely different game than their compatriots.

15 hours ago, meazza said:

 

The EPL may have some of the richest clubs but not necessarily well managed.

 

remember that pogba went to juve for free from United and then went back to United for 90m. Hell of a deal 

He won a treble at Juve as arguably their best player. Fair to say whoever was managing United at the time was a moron.

16 hours ago, Commonsense said:

I watched a good number of the elimination games and I didn’t see any players looking disinterested out there. I’m just a once every four years type of soccer fan but I thought the final was great. I wanted Croatia to win but it was a good match, some hard play and not too many flops. France was the better team, if Croatia was able to score in the first 10 minutes or so while they controlled play perhaps the game would have been different. 

 

I would watch that that game more often than every four years, I don’t enjoy watching Neymar and company do barrel rolls down the field. The goal scorer for Croatia played his heart out, is he in a big time soccer league? Seems like a heck of a player.

Yeah his resume stands out as all time great. Believe he won 4 champions leagues as the striker for Bayern and later Juve. Not to mention his success with Croatia. 

 

This world cup final appearance has him and especially in the best players of all time conversation between that and champions league success. Shame they couldn't deliver. I love Mandzukic as a Juve fan.

[Bing Bong]

18 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Pogba didn't leave Man United for Juventus because of the money, he left because of the playing time and Ferguson wasn't giving him the time. He wasn't being taken seriously at United. He went to Juventus to prove he could play. His only problem at United now is Mourinho and the system he plays requires Pogba to play defensively much much more and doesn't have Kante and Matuidi next to him.

 

And his return to United was at the time the largest transfer fee in all of Football. The Premiership has plenty of money and has some of the richest teams in Europe.  

He won the champions league as arguably Juventus' best player after the defense. English coaches have been incredibly slow to adapt but they're obviously turning it around (by ditching English coaches for Pep, Mourinho and the likes.)

[Bing Bong]

22 hours ago, sodbuster said:

This isn't exactly accurate. Pogba plays for Manchester United, Mendy plays for City, Kante and Giroud play for Chelsea, Lloris keeps for Tottenham. The two teams in the third place match Saturday could nearly field a starting 11 made of just United and Tottenham players. Heck, Kane won the Boot this year.

 

The EPL has some of the richest teams in Europe. They struggle for two big reasons. They don't get the midwinter break that other leagues get, and the league is more competitive as of late.

Their getting better. I was just trying (and failing as I was hammered that day) to make a point to row that the Superstars aren't skipping the WC to gear up for EPL.. because majority of Superstars aren't in the EPL haha. I'll give you Kante, Pogba, Kane as Superstars.. Lloris is just a tier below superstar status IMO (Courtois is my goalie of the tourney, Neuer is THE best goalie right now.) 

 

And Giroud is horrible (not even close nto a superstar, just the best version of a target man France had). Didn't even score a goal as the 9. Arguably the worst player on France and one of the worst world cup starting winners I've seen since I was cognizant during the 2002 WC.

 

Oh and midwinter break wasn't a factor when Arsenal wrecked the world with one of the best seasons of all time. See my post above on my theory. Mostly based on the fact that EPL has by far the most domestic player restrictions, causing them to overpay for good not great English players to fill in the gap for their foreign stars.

19 hours ago, meazza said:

I wonder if row_33 can name me players that didn’t bother to show up?  

He didn't see the REAL TALENT from the EPL. "Who the hell is this Modric guy? Must be filling in for all those Croatian Superstars in the EPL who chose not to join. They're gearing up for the big league"

On 7/12/2018 at 10:58 AM, row_33 said:

but i'm a man who works and doesn't have too much time to listen to people yak on and on and on about nothing, especially sports fans who are past the age of 20 and should know better

You're a man who goes on a forum and yaks on and on about NFL dude. Love you row, but consult with a soccer fan before saying "the real supersars are skipping the world cup gearing for EPL.. who the hell is this Modric bloke?"

Edited July 17, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Bing Bong]

Anyways sorry for the spam posts, soccer is my first love but I can't get too involved beyond USMNT cause I really have no good connection to root for random European teams. So Bills really provide my fan entertainment.

 

My hot takes are based on my fascination with tactics and an old blog documenting my opinion on how successful tactics eventually get exposed. No tactic is free from experimenting how to beat after proven success in the tactic causing managers to lose sleep.

 

Fun fact USMNT broke Spain's dominant win streak under Bob Bradley in the 2011 confederations cup. Tiki Taka relies on narrow play with no true forward (internationally Spain had everybody but Messi). So Bob Bradley created a narrow 4-4-2 to force a congested center for Spain with  a non threatening outside attack with Jozy Altidore exploiting the Spanish confusion and counterattacking with pure athleticism over Spanish defenders. Managers admitted they copied.

 

The traditional 4-4-2 of the 90s was a large pitch (defenders had to play deep to cover the corner balls, allowing space for center mids to pick up the ball and spray and Chase. Not to mention everybody wanted Alex Ferguson's success. But he had the perfect personell, Ryan giggs and David Beckham in particular to play killer balls to the best target men in the game, Michael Owen, and Roy Keane.

 

that got broken apart when teams reassembled with destroyer defenders on the flanks, and outnumbering the centermids with 3 in the middle (note how virtually every team now has some version of 3 CMs now, with so much space 4-4-2 required they could pass around 2 guys in the middle with ease. EPL stuck to it and got wrecked by the Robben and Ribery era of Bayern who were simply too dangerous against a flat 4 zone defense that could never defend the wingers switch from zone to zone at pace.

 

Tiki Taka developed concurrently. Notice France played the finals 4-2-3-1. With Giroud apparently being the ole Watkins decoy. The current trend is possession doesn't matter anymore. In fact you lure the team into pressing higher up to score a goal cause they've had the ball so long, and Mbappe in particular was running rampant as soon as France charged forward.

 

My sources:

-3 time champions league winner on Sega football manager with Napoli based on revolutionary tactics.. and signing Zlatan since he always leaves the MLS.

-playing FIFA and literally never seeing a top ranked player EVER pick an EPL team for a 5 year stretch.. guaranteed loss and broken controller

-hating the english butt ugly style of 4-4-2 

 

[stony]

9 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

You're right, I was just being a moron and overreacting to row. I think I was trying to make the joke that maybe he didn't see his "stars" in the world cup because the EPL is all he watches lol. "Who is this Modric fella? They couldn't get any EPL croatians? They must all be gearing up for ENGLISH FOOTBALL" But I was hammered and butchered it.

 

EPL has been hamstrung IMO because they have the most stringent domestic player policy. They upped it to like 6 players on the field have to be of English nationality. Really sucks, the English talent gets overpriced and England and they never move to the continent because any half decent English player has to start for the top flight clubs (just from my football manager experience I never manage in the EPL because it's so annoying.) Basically a guy like Raheem Sterling is world class but gets paid Messi money because he's not only a monster but doesn't limit your foreign player count. He's great, but overpaid nevertheless. 

 

EPL as a league has to have the most money across all teams, and they can splurge, but Bayern, Real, Barca, PSG, and Monaco have waaaay more money. Chelsea with Hazard and Liverpool with Sterling can definitely throw a punch in Champions League, but they are forced to overspend on English players. 

 

And to someone's point above combine all that with the fact that EPL as a whole is way stronger than the other leagues. A midtable EPL team could throttle mid table Spanish team. So EPL is more entertaining as a league because the Chelsea's and Liverpool's still get beat up by mid tier teams any given Saturday. The parity bites them because over in Spain, Real can have any domestic players from their youth system beat up on the bottom teams, they can afford to spend a crapload on Bale and only play him in champions league when the domestic limit is off.

 

And mix in the fact that England has been painstakingly slow to leave Alex Ferguson's 4-4-2 success behind them and adapt to new tactics, they make bad decisons: Pogba leaves the Man U reserves to be the best player on champions league winning Juventus. Choose Rooney over Ronaldo because of the domestic player affect (you keep Ronaldo at all costs foreign player limit be damned).

 

And the other leagues really aren't a slouch. Spanish league and French teams are poor quality outside of the top clubs. But Italy's Serie A and Bundesliga have depth too. Bayern, Juve, Real, Barca still take their league very seriously, but they've just consistently beaten EPL recently as well. They're always looking for a treble, no small feat when Dortmund, Barca, AC, Inter knocking at your door. PSG is really the only team that can nap through the domestic league.

 

That said I read statistically Bundesliga has the most parity, but just not as good as EPL. -Long winded post from a football manager addict. I've won a few champions leagues myself with Napoli. Don't sleep on a good soccer manager boys.

The story of my TBD career!!  No harm no foul.

 

Every young US player should go to Bundesliga.  Managers actually play youngsters when they don't have the fear of relegation and losing 100 million pounds.  Who can blame them?  Until then, there's always going to be the Big Sam's, Pulis's etc.