Major vs. Minor League Experience

[shrader]

We have a stadium in town where they have a summer league team for college kids.  It's maybe 2 miles from my house.  It runs for about 2.5 months during the summer.  We went to a game this past weekend.  The players are very into the games, which is nice to see.  We sat directly behind the visiting team's dugout and could hear pretty much all of their chatter.  They were down 1 in the top of the 9th and every single player was up on the top step chirping constantly.  I can't remember the last time I saw that. 

 

It's a fun time.  The game is obviously a lower quality, but the energy level and the rock bottom prices make up for that.  We'll try to go a couple more times this summer.

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

2 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

 

The stadium shows its age a bit.  Lots of 'rust' and a bit of degradation.  They did replace a good amount of the "premium" red seats with new green seats a couple years ago.

 

Its not bad though.  Concourses are good.  They have good food options and a stand for craft brews.  The "bleachers" has turned full into a bar-type area.  

When there is a large crowd, like for Star Wars Night.... it is very uncomfortable.  

 

I believe it is the oldest ballpark in the International League now?

Technically second oldest. But Pawtuckett did some major renovations about ten or fifteen years ago. 

11 hours ago, Gugny said:

When I was a kid, we had the White Sox AA team in Glens Falls.  It's a big part of why I love baseball.  Any major league-affiliated league (A, AA, AAA) is going to provide decent baseball.  If you love the game, you'll see the talent and appreciate it.

 

One of my goals in life is to visit every MLB park.  I've been to about 1/3, so far.  Nothing compares to Citi Field and I'm not just saying that because I'm a Mets fan (in fact, I hate those mother !@#$ers right now).

 

A baseball-savvy crowd also makes the difference.  A couple years ago I went to a D-backs home game.  Talk about boring.  Phoenix is not a baseball town.  Fans were disengaged.  The atmosphere sucked.

 

A lot goes into a live baseball experience.  Fans, surroundings, music, announcing.

 

I wish we could get another minor league team, but the field/facilities have gone to ****.  We have, basically, a JUCO league.  I've been to a few games.  Decent baseball, but no crowd, no excitement.

 

If the setting is right, there's nothing like a day at the ballpark.  My son and I will be headed to Citi Field in early August and we can't wait.

 

Camden Yards is next on my list.

 

In Houston we obviously have the Astros. Sugarland (about 30 minutes south) has an independent league team called the Skeeters. Brand new ballpark about five years ago. They do some crazy promotions. I went there, they asked if I wanted to enter to win a TV. I said yes, and they handed me a spoon. They burried a remote under the field before the game. Whoever dug it up won the TV. They also signed Roger Clements for one game. 

I have season tickets to UH baseball. Nothing fancy about the ballpark, but it's cheap, and the team has been in the conference championship 4/5 years and won it twice. So its good baseball. Except in the beginning where we play Northern teams that aren't at our level and we're winning games that aren't even close. Rice has a nicer stadium, but tickets are more expensive. The best part of being a college baseball fan is that the season starts in mid February. So you only go like 2.5 months without any baseball in your life.

 

The Astros host a college baseball classic every year with six different teams, usually including UH. $30 gets you an all weekend pass, and I usually go to almost all the games. This year I went to a game that didn't end until the 12th inning at 1am. 

[Mark80]

21 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

Minor league baseball.... mainly AAA is the lowest form of North American pro sports.  Bisons games are terrible.  Most of the top rated prospects go through full seasons of A and AA as opposed to much AAA. Guys there, you can tell are mostly going through the motions.  Competition is on the back burner.  Pitch counts are paramount and never deviated from.  If you have a team that goes to the "playoffs", September call-ups completely ravage your team and the lineup that plays in your "playoff" games does not have much in common with the lineup from the season.  

Going to a Bisons game now... baseball, I wouldnt even consider secondary.  Its like 3rd or 4th priority-wise there.  Its so secondary, they wont even tell you what the official scorer calls an error/hit (until its on the scoreboard and often changes once the scoreboard operator is informed later).  My dad keeps score and totals up at the end.  Every piece of baseball information is scrubbed from the scoreboard like .0005 seconds after the last out is recorded.  Nobody cares, and hardly anyone would attend without the daily "gimmick".

 

Back in War Memorial Stadium and earlier in Pilot Field's existence, it felt like much more of a baseball game.  I think the players cared more and we had many more "career minor leaguers" who had their place in AAA and would compete.  That is all gone now. 

 

MLB isnt even comparable at this point.  I would say A and AA is slightly better because players are really scrapping for survival.... but it isnt better by much.  They also change logos, uniforms, affiliations, and identities all the time.  Tradition has been thrown in the waste basket.  Everything has completely capitulated to their MLB overlords.

 

 

I think the erosion of minor league and community baseball is as much to blame for the suffering and cloudy future of MLB interest than the "speed of play" nonsense.  They have rooted decent baseball from small towns.  The NY Penn League used to be great until the ripped everything out for "communities" that really needed it, such as Brooklyn, Staten Island, Lowell, Norwich, CT, and State College.

 

AAA ball is the highest quality after MLB.  Most people in AAA either have been in, or will be in the majors.  Lower levels do have the highest rated prospects for the longest periods of time, sure, but they are also filled with a majority of players who never come close to making the big leagues.  With AAA the whole team is full of borderline MLB players and sometimes you get the stud prospects for a spell as well, but typically a short one.  Overall, it's a better quality product though.  If you're only interested in seeing top prospects, well, then AA is your best bet.

[May Day 10]

Maybe the overall pedigree of individual players is better in AAA (obviously).... but overall, the aspect of competition, which is the driving attraction of sports, is completely vacant.  

 

New York Penn League games are more fun to watch.  Maybe its because prospects are more desperate to claw up?  Maybe the roster is more fixed through the season?  Or maybe its guys who know they arent going to make it and are just making the most of being a pro.

 

AAA baseball (in the past 15 years) feels like 90% of the players don't want to be there.  

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

It truly depends on the farm team. A lot of AAA guys are there because they have a great bat and need to develop their glove, or vice versa. Sometimes they're just unlucky because of who they play under. If you were a Shortstop in the Yankees farm system any time within the past 20 years, you better learn another position or hope you get traded. I know the Bisons had a lot of guys when the Indians were good, that were down there to learn a new position. 

[Ned Flanders]

Growing up in Rochester, I would live and die with the Red Wings and we usually had some rising stars stay in town for two full seasons.  Don Baylor, Bobby Grich, Doug DeCinces, and Al Bumbry, and later Cal Ripken, were favorites and the fans really cared if the team won or lost on a given night.  I use to follow the standings daily and developed a love for the Orioles that continues to this day (not so much this year, haha).

 

Moving to the DC area over 30 years ago, going to Orioles and now Nats games, has replaced the minor league experience.  Seems when I go back to Rochester, we go to a Wings game and the experience, like others have said, is night and day.  Fans give an appreciative clap when the Wings make a good play but I don't sense the same passionate fervor that use to envelop the ballpark...they all seem to be just interested in getting to the next mid-inning promotion or gimmick.

 

Don't get me wrong, there's a certain charm, and favorable price structure, associated with minor league ball, it simply can't compare to The Show.

[Jay_Fixit]

I can only get into minor league ball if there’s a top prospect worth seeing. I do enjoy going but I definitely don’t pay attention as if I was at an MLB game.

 

Nothing better than a sunny Saturday night at Safeco with the roof open.

 

Until the 7th when the pigeons start shitting on people.

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I can only get into minor league ball if there’s a top prospect worth seeing. I do enjoy going but I definitely don’t pay attention as if I was at an MLB game.

 

Nothing better than a sunny Saturday night at SunTrust Park with views of tall buildings just outside.

 

Until the 7th when the pigeons start shitting on people.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

 

 

[Misterbluesky]

59 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

 

Nothing better than a sunny Saturday night at Safeco with the roof open.

 

Until the 7th when the pigeons start shitting on people.

They need to string up fishing line at the base of the roof opening

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

1 hour ago, Misterbluesky said:

They need to string up fishing line at the base of the roof opening

In a hippie town like Seattle? It would never happen. 

[Uncle Joe]

2 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I can only get into minor league ball if there’s a top prospect worth seeing. I do enjoy going but I definitely don’t pay attention as if I was at an MLB game.

 

Nothing better than a sunny Saturday night at Safeco with the roof open.

 

Until the 7th when the pigeons start shitting on people.

 

But the ninth should be tolerable this year the way Diaz is going. If they make the playoffs whose next on the drought list?

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

1 hour ago, Uncle Joe said:

 

But the ninth should be tolerable this year the way Diaz is going. If they make the playoffs whose next on the drought list?

1. Mariners 16
2. Browns 15
3. Marlins 14
4. Timberwolves 13
5. Sacramento Kings 11
6. Padres 11
7. Bucs 10 
8. White Sox 9
9. Carolina Hurricanes 8
10. NYJ 7

Edited June 14, 2018 by The Real Buffalo Joe

[That's No Moon]

I get to see a handful of Carolina league games every year. It's a relaxing time and you see the occasional top prospect come through by my God, nobody can hit in that league. I feel like every game I go to ends up 2-1 or 3-2.

 

Now if you are an autograph hound A ball is totally the way to go, the kids sign every thing. They haven't been jaded by success yet. It's not my thing but I tell the little kids to get everyone they can because you never know who that next star is going to be.

 

Also, A ball cracks me up to sit near the dugout because there are more than a few super young Latino players who don't speak much English. They tend to group together in the dugout and they assume the gringo in the front row doesn't speak Spanish. Lots of funny stuff to be overheard.

[LabattBlue]

All this talk about the BIsons makes me want to punch Bob Rich Jr.  Who remembers him waving the check around at the owners meetings when it was rumored that Buffalo was going to get a team.  Then he got cold feet. 

 

With all the TV money in MLB, regardless of attendance, I would think all teams are profitable.  Buffalo's attendance numbers would have been at the very least competitive with those who routinely finish at the bottom of the league in attendance.

 

So sad that we missed out on the chance to be a MLB town.

[PromoTheRobot]

On 6/12/2018 at 3:22 PM, May Day 10 said:

Minor league baseball.... mainly AAA is the lowest form of North American pro sports.  Bisons games are terrible.  Most of the top rated prospects go through full seasons of A and AA as opposed to much AAA. Guys there, you can tell are mostly going through the motions.  Competition is on the back burner.  Pitch counts are paramount and never deviated from.  If you have a team that goes to the "playoffs", September call-ups completely ravage your team and the lineup that plays in your "playoff" games does not have much in common with the lineup from the season.  

Going to a Bisons game now... baseball, I wouldnt even consider secondary.  Its like 3rd or 4th priority-wise there.  Its so secondary, they wont even tell you what the official scorer calls an error/hit (until its on the scoreboard and often changes once the scoreboard operator is informed later).  My dad keeps score and totals up at the end.  Every piece of baseball information is scrubbed from the scoreboard like .0005 seconds after the last out is recorded.  Nobody cares, and hardly anyone would attend without the daily "gimmick".

 

Back in War Memorial Stadium and earlier in Pilot Field's existence, it felt like much more of a baseball game.  I think the players cared more and we had many more "career minor leaguers" who had their place in AAA and would compete.  That is all gone now. 

 

MLB isnt even comparable at this point.  I would say A and AA is slightly better because players are really scrapping for survival.... but it isnt better by much.  They also change logos, uniforms, affiliations, and identities all the time.  Tradition has been thrown in the waste basket.  Everything has completely capitulated to their MLB overlords.

 

 

I think the erosion of minor league and community baseball is as much to blame for the suffering and cloudy future of MLB interest than the "speed of play" nonsense.  They have rooted decent baseball from small towns.  The NY Penn League used to be great until the ripped everything out for "communities" that really needed it, such as Brooklyn, Staten Island, Lowell, Norwich, CT, and State College.

 

I live in Manchester NH where we have the Jays AA team, the Fishercats. Nice 6K seat downtown park along the river. Best part is the Sam Adams club in left field, open to anyone. We have Vlad Guerrero Jr. right now. He'll probably will go straight to Toronto soon.

[May Day 10]

11 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

All this talk about the BIsons makes me want to punch Bob Rich Jr.  Who remembers him waving the check around at the owners meetings when it was rumored that Buffalo was going to get a team.  Then he got cold feet. 

 

With all the TV money in MLB, regardless of attendance, I would think all teams are profitable.  Buffalo's attendance numbers would have been at the very least competitive with those who routinely finish at the bottom of the league in attendance.

 

So sad that we missed out on the chance to be a MLB town.

 

 

Bob Rich's worth also seems to have ballooned.  I'm not sure how it would have gone... but I would currently be a season ticket holder.  Talk about a good thing for downtown.  A MLB draw for 81 dates would be huge.  Its my dream.  I'm hoping that someway, somehow we get 1 or 2 fortune 500 white whales through this re-imagining of downtown and Pegula/Rich/etc land a team.  Pipe dream, I know.

 

Its not well known, but Mindy and Bob Rich had dinner with the owner of the San Francisco Giants.  The Giants' owner was complaining about working with the city, the weather/wind, and Candlestick Park.  Mindy, off the cuff proposed him moving the team to Buffalo, the Riches becoming some sort of team/facility "managers", and changing the team name to "New York Giants".  The idea was considered and there were a couple of serious meetings.  Not sure how close it came to happening (probably not very close), but it was a thing.

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

13 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

With all the TV money in MLB, regardless of attendance, I would think all teams are profitable.  Buffalo's attendance numbers would have been at the very least competitive with those who routinely finish at the bottom of the league in attendance.

In our first couple of season in Pilot field, we actually outdrew the Braves and White Sox. I believe I read somewhere that part of the problem was that we weren't gonnaget any of the TV money until the then current contract ended, about five years after we came into the league. Also, our TV market wouldn't have reached southern Ontario (already Blue Jays territory), would stop at the state border (Pirates), and I read that Rochester would have been about the limit going East before Mets/Yankees took over. 

[row_33]

12 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

In our first couple of season in Pilot field, we actually outdrew the Braves and White Sox. I believe I read somewhere that part of the problem was that we weren't gonnaget any of the TV money until the then current contract ended, about five years after we came into the league. Also, our TV market wouldn't have reached southern Ontario (already Blue Jays territory), would stop at the state border (Pirates), and I read that Rochester would have been about the limit going East before Mets/Yankees took over. 

 

the Bisons have local TV coverage of games?

 

 

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

4 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

the Bisons have local TV coverage of games?

 

 

They do once in a while actually. About 10 games a year. Used to be if the Mets were off, and the Bisons were home, SNY would show them when we were their farm team. But I'm talking about the hypothetical market if we had gotten a Major League team, or at least what it was back in the early 90s.

[Kirby Jackson]

17 hours ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

1. Mariners 16
2. Browns 15
3. Marlins 14
4. Timberwolves 13
5. Sacramento Kings 11
6. Padres 11
7. Bucs 10 
8. White Sox 9
9. Carolina Hurricanes 8
10. NYJ 7

Timberwolves went to the playoffs this year.

 

Also, I did the minor league thing last night. We went to the Baby Cakes game. Thursday’s they do $2 beers and you can bring your dog. 5 of us went (plus my dog). We tailgated, played cornhole and drank about 15 beers over the course of the night. It was a lot of fun.