Deranged Rhino Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 4:48 PM, K-9 said: You are going down rabbit holes I have no interest in. Expand With full respect, those aren't rabbit holes. Those are facts and direct contributing factors to how and why the deal came together. They were criminally under reported while the deal was going down because the administration was leaning on reporters to keep it quiet. Ignoring their reality only makes it more difficult to have an open and honest conversation about the merits of the deal. On 6/13/2018 at 4:50 PM, K-9 said: You are simply wrong about not curbing Iran's ability to develop nukes. There are no sunset provisions on the prohibition to build weapons. Sure, they can always renege as scumbag leaders have in the past. But their commitments, what they've signed on to, clearly prohibit them from building weapons. Expand And yet... Mr Salehi said the US would be surprised by how quickly Iran could rebuild its stocks if the 2015 nuclear deal was dropped. That's not supposed to be possible based on the language of the deal and how it was sold to the world. (My intent is not to say you're comparing the entire DPRK deal to the Iran deal... my intent is to show you that holding the Iran deal up as a goal or benchmark to reach is a very very low bar)
K-9 Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 4:49 PM, Deranged Rhino said: Five days. This doesn't happen unless this program was never shut down. And it wasn't. Because the Iran "nuclear deal" did nothing to stop their nuclear ambitions. Certainly not in perpetuity. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-nuclear-deal-weapons-uranium-enrichment-five-days-donald-trump-us-deal-a7906276.html Expand Then they will be in violation, the agreement will be voided, sanctions reinstated on the regime, and the threat of military action becomes a reality for them. But if you REALLY want to get down to the essence of it, NOTHING ANY COUNTRY SIGNS UP TO IS WORTH THE PAPER IT IS WRITTEN ON. That's the unfortunate bottom line when it comes to geopolitics as we've seen countless times.
DC Tom Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 Let's not forget one important difference between Iran and DPRK: Iran's a non-profliferation issue. DPRK's a disarmament issue. 1
K-9 Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 5:00 PM, Deranged Rhino said: With full respect, those aren't rabbit holes. Those are facts and direct contributing factors to how and why the deal came together. They were criminally under reported while the deal was going down because the administration was leaning on reporters to keep it quiet. Ignoring their reality only makes it more difficult to have an open and honest conversation about the merits of the deal. And yet... Mr Salehi said the US would be surprised by how quickly Iran could rebuild its stocks if the 2015 nuclear deal was dropped. That's not supposed to be possible based on the language of the deal and how it was sold to the world. (My intent is not to say you're comparing the entire DPRK deal to the Iran deal... my intent is to show you that holding the Iran deal up as a goal or benchmark to reach is a very very low bar) Expand No, they are rabbit holes as they have nothing to do with the precise language in the agreement they signed up to. And that's all I'm willing to argue vis a vis Iran and North Korea. I'd be happy if N Korea made the same commitments on paper and joined up for the same. And I'll just let it go at that. On 6/13/2018 at 5:07 PM, DC Tom said: Let's not forget one important difference between Iran and DPRK: Iran's a non-profliferation issue. DPRK's a disarmament issue. Expand Great point. But I'd still like to see them commit to a non-proliferation treaty all the same. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 5:05 PM, K-9 said: Then they will be in violation, the agreement will be voided, sanctions reinstated on the regime, and the threat of military action becomes a reality for them. But if you REALLY want to get down to the essence of it, NOTHING ANY COUNTRY SIGNS UP TO IS WORTH THE PAPER IT IS WRITTEN ON. That's the unfortunate bottom line when it comes to geopolitics as we've seen countless times. Expand I'm really not trying to argue or annoy you (hope you know that), just having a conversation about a very misunderstood and highly charged topic. But if they can do that in five days, they ARE in violation, and have been since the deal was signed. So what does that say about how much the deal was really worth? In the end all it amounted to was 200 billion dollars in the Mullah's pockets, a poorer Iranian population, more dead Americans in the ME, and gave Hezbollah a foothold inside the United States to run drugs and humans. That's the reality of what the Iran deal accomplished.
K-9 Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 5:00 PM, Deranged Rhino said: With full respect, those aren't rabbit holes. Those are facts and direct contributing factors to how and why the deal came together. They were criminally under reported while the deal was going down because the administration was leaning on reporters to keep it quiet. Ignoring their reality only makes it more difficult to have an open and honest conversation about the merits of the deal. And yet... Mr Salehi said the US would be surprised by how quickly Iran could rebuild its stocks if the 2015 nuclear deal was dropped. That's not supposed to be possible based on the language of the deal and how it was sold to the world. (My intent is not to say you're comparing the entire DPRK deal to the Iran deal... my intent is to show you that holding the Iran deal up as a goal or benchmark to reach is a very very low bar) Expand I'd add that we should all take a course in bloviation and empty rhetoric. N Korea threatened to burn the USA to ashes. And they HAVE nukes!
Deranged Rhino Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 5:07 PM, K-9 said: No, they are rabbit holes as they have nothing to do with the precise language in the agreement they signed up to. Expand They do though, K-9. These things were done to bring Iran to the table. Obama exposed Stuxnet as quid-pro-quo. Obama called off the DOJ in Operation Cassandra because he feared it would anger the Mullahs and make them leave the negotiating table. You don't get any deal, let alone the precise language, without the above events taking place. They were integral.
DC Tom Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 5:11 PM, K-9 said: I'd add that we should all take a course in bloviation and empty rhetoric. N Korea threatened to burn the USA to ashes. And they HAVE nukes! Expand But no way to reliably deliver them. Unless they do it by boat. Or truck. Hell, even having a school of albacore tow a nuclear warhead to the West Coast would be more reliable than North Korean rockets. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 5:11 PM, K-9 said: I'd add that we should all take a course in bloviation and empty rhetoric. N Korea threatened to burn the USA to ashes. And they HAVE nukes! Expand They have threatened indeed. Iran has as well. But unlike the DPRK in the 21st century, Iran's taken hostile action against American forces and civilians alike. That should be factored in if we're comparing the two (which really isn't my intent/point).
K-9 Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 5:13 PM, DC Tom said: But no way to reliably deliver them. Unless they do it by boat. Or truck. Hell, even having a school of albacore tow a nuclear warhead to the West Coast would be more reliable than North Korean rockets. Expand Another good point. Hell, the safest place to be when he threatened Guam was Guam itself. Which is why I never took his bloviating seriously. But he can do extensive damage to the peninsula in the meantime. 1
DC Tom Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 5:23 PM, K-9 said: Hell, the safest place to be when he threatened Guam was Guam itself. Expand That was my line... 1
Trump_is_Mentally_fit Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 6:17 PM, DC Tom said: That was my line... Expand What's your opinion of this whole Trump-Kim summit?
Deranged Rhino Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 It can be found on page one of the thread, Gator.
Trump_is_Mentally_fit Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 6:27 PM, Deranged Rhino said: It can be found on page one of the thread, Gator. Expand We have learned a lot since then, Der
Warren Zevon Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 6:27 PM, Deranged Rhino said: It can be found on page one of the thread, Gator. Expand No it can't. You're intentionally lying again. @DC Tom opines on how the media will react to the summit but has yet to state his opinion on the summit itself. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/11/2018 at 11:30 PM, DC Tom said: I predict that, whatever happens, Trump gets no credit and all blame. Expand Sorry, Gary.
Warren Zevon Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 6:31 PM, Deranged Rhino said: Sorry, Gary. Expand Indeed. He gave his opinion on how others will react instead of his opinion on the summit. What a shock. Hey, look! DC Idiot even admits it On 6/12/2018 at 12:25 AM, peace out said: I also predict DC Tom complains more about the media's coverage of the summit than he discusses the summit itself. Expand On 6/12/2018 at 12:55 AM, DC Tom said: The summit's two guys over a couple hours. The media coverage is a boatload of idiots over a couple of weeks. There's simply more to discuss. Expand 1
Deranged Rhino Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 So... in other words, I was correct and not "lying". Here's a chance to prove what you said earlier about not being afraid to admit you were wrong... Let's see if you live up to your own words.
Warren Zevon Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 6:35 PM, Deranged Rhino said: So... in other words, I was correct and not "lying". Here's a chance to prove what you said earlier about not being afraid to admit you were wrong... Let's see if you live up to your own words. Expand I still can't find his opinion on the Trump Kim summit. I found his opinion on the reaction to the summit but that's it. Continue your gaslighting, Doofus Rhino. Keep it up so everyone can see the idiot you are.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 6:38 PM, peace out said: I still can't find his opinion on the Trump Kim summit. I found his opinion on the reaction to the summit but that's it. Continue your gaslighting, Doofus Rhino. Keep it up so everyone can see the idiot you are. Expand Yeah. I'm the one being exposed with this exchange Tom made his opinion quite clear - on page one. And reinforced it in conversation since. You're trying to split hairs just to call me a liar. It's a bad look on you, but completely expected since you refuse to engage on any level of honesty on ANY topic.
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