Summit Predictions

[Koko78]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Bolton bringing up the Libya model for North Korea was interesting to me given his reputation.  It seemed like a warning to Kim not to mess with us.  Kind of a good cop/bad cop routine with Pompeo being the good cop and Trump being the moderator. I know it won't happen for obvious reasons, but I'd love to see Trump pull a Red Wedding on Kim when he comes to Washington to get ride of that pos once and for all.

 

I think what Bolton was getting at was misconstrued. I do not believe that he was referring to Ghadaffi being overthrown and murdered, but how the actual deal to permanently denuclearize and verify was structured and implemented, which was apparently very smooth and worked well for everyone involved.

[3rdnlng]

48 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said:

Because your animosity towards the man based on his skin colour is obvious. Just let it out...

 

How do you come to the conclusion that BO was the worst president ever and got a pass based on being black? I’m just curious as to how you compartmentalize your bias.

 

I mean Clinton got the ball rolling on bank deregulation and Bush took the ball over the goal line causing a massive global recession. Bush also created a war that achieved nothing and was based on nothing. Nixon was turfed for committing crimes... but yeah BO is the worst ever.

LMAO

I genuinely think the colour of BO’s skin plays a role in that guy’s view that BO is the worst president ever. And it’s further demonstrated by his wanting to blame BO’s skin for shielding the man from criticism.

 

You honestly think that there isn’t a current of racism that drives the hate of BO and the love of Trump? And that the right isn’t aware of it and playing into it?

Maybe you should keep your players straight, you stupidshit. I simply asked you why you were calling NJbuff racist and you give me this crap? Step up your game if you intend to play down here.

 

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Posted 15 hours ago

20 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

Obama was by far the worst President this country has ever seen. Because he is black and the first black President, he gets a free pass.

 

The left and the MSM (who were comatose during the Obama years) can’t stand the fact that Trump is taking a dump on Obama’s “so-called” legacy.

Hahahahaha...let your inner racist out.

[Tiberius]

23 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

I think what Bolton was getting at was misconstrued. I do not believe that he was referring to Ghadaffi being overthrown and murdered, but how the actual deal to permanently denuclearize and verify was structured and implemented, which was apparently very smooth and worked well for everyone involved.

You never know with Bolton, though. I bet he hates this whole process. Would love to sit down and talk with him about it. 

[K-9]

Quote

Trump said at a news conference in Singapore that sanctions would only be removed "when we are sure the nukes are no longer a factor." He acknowledged that could take a long time.

 

China immediately suggested sanctions should be lifted, N Korea media reports that we did agree to lift them at the summit, and Trump says only when nukes are not a factor, which will take a long time, which is the best course of action, imo. But I'm skeptical that the sanctions won't be lifted before they denuclearize because China and Russia will start pressing harder for sanctions relief as they have in the past. 

[Tiberius]

John Bolton last August: 

 

Quote

 

America’s policy makers, especially those who still support the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, should take careful note. If Tehran’s long collusion with Pyongyang on ballistic missiles is even partly mirrored in the nuclear field, the Iranian threat is nearly as imminent as North Korea’s. Whatever the extent of their collaboration thus far, Iran could undoubtedly use its now-unfrozen assets and cash from oil-investment deals to buy nuclear hardware from North Korea, one of the world’s poorest nations.

One lesson from Pyongyang’s steady nuclear ascent is to avoid making the same mistake with other proliferators, who are carefully studying its successes. Statecraft should mean grasping the implications of incipient threats and resolving them before they become manifest. With North Korea and Iran, the U.S. has effectively done the opposite. Proliferators happily exploit America’s weakness and its short attention span. They exploit negotiations to gain the most precious asset: time to resolve the complex scientific and technological hurdles to making deliverable nuclear weapons.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-military-options-for-north-korea-1501718189

OMG ?

 

Tweet this morning 

 

Quote

“Just landed — a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea. Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!”

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/13/politics/trump-north-korea-nuclear-threat/index.html

[Buffalo_Gal]

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

 

China immediately suggested sanctions should be lifted, N Korea media reports that we did agree to lift them at the summit, and Trump says only when nukes are not a factor, which will take a long time, which is the best course of action, imo. But I'm skeptical that the sanctions won't be lifted before they denuclearize because China and Russia will start pressing harder for sanctions relief as they have in the past.

 

 

They will push for the sanctions to be lifted, but how much of that is real & how much of it will be for show is yet to be seen.

 

They HAD to have already gotten something behind the scenes to allow the negotiations to get to this point.  (Our western European allies probably got something as well.)  Which likely means they knew sanctions wouldn't be lifted until the nukes were gone.  And if that is the case, their call for the sanctions lifting will be more kabuki than real.

 

What happens next will let us know if this was as useless as the past 3 negotiations or if this is the start of something different.  IMHO it seems different this time.  (The f-t-f meeting, hostages being released w/out a ransom being paid, the already destroyed test site & launch site (realizing there are more there), are things that haven't happened in the past.)  We haven't bent over on this one (yet, at least).  That in itself is different.  I'll remain hopeful until that proves out to be misguided.  That you remain skeptical is understandable, hopefully that proves out to be misguided in the end.  

[K-9]

Just now, Taro T said:

 

 

They will push for the sanctions to be lifted, but how much of that is real & how much of it will be for show is yet to be seen.

 

They HAD to have already gotten something behind the scenes to allow the negotiations to get to this point.  (Our western European allies probably got something as well.)  Which likely means they knew sanctions wouldn't be lifted until the nukes were gone.  And if that is the case, their call for the sanctions lifting will be more kabuki than real.

 

What happens next will let us know if this was as useless as the past 3 negotiations or if this is the start of something different.  IMHO it seems different this time.  (The f-t-f meeting, hostages being released w/out a ransom being paid, the already destroyed test site & launch site (realizing there are more there), are things that haven't happened in the past.)  We haven't bent over on this one (yet, at least).  That in itself is different.  I'll remain hopeful until that proves out to be misguided.  That you remain skeptical is understandable, hopefully that proves out to be misguided in the end.  

Absolutely. Which is why this is too eerily similar to the 6 party talks in the early part of this century and even the earlier talks in the 90s. Reading Trump's comment linked above, clinches it for me. Saying there is no longer a nuclear threat from N Korea means the road to lift the sanctions has been paved. Seems his rhetoric immediately after the summit regarding how the sanctions wouldn't be lifted until the nukes are gone was nothing more than to placate those that were worried he gave up something for nothing. Because until the nukes really are disposed of and every site is verified by the IAEA, including military installations (as was agreed to twice previously in writing), then that's exactly what he did if the sanctions are lifted. 

[IDBillzFan]

2 hours ago, Buddy Hix said:

I genuinely think the colour of BO’s skin plays a role in that guy’s view that BO is the worst president ever. And it’s further demonstrated by his wanting to blame BO’s skin for shielding the man from criticism.

 

You honestly think that there isn’t a current of racism that drives the hate of BO and the love of Trump? And that the right isn’t aware of it and playing into it?

 

Here's the thing: you don't know it plays a role...you think it plays a role, and that is enough for your to call him a racist.

 

And that is why you should particularly heed the previous note of TYTT. You've overplayed your hand on the race card. You're not alone. So did Obama. And so did the entire left. There was/is to be no criticism of Barry that was/is not directly tied to racism.

 

Don't like Obamacare? You're a racist.

 

Don't like Cash for Clunkers? Racist.

 

Don't like Recovery Act? Racist.

 

You shot your wad. The only people who take that serious are people whose name ends up in all the headlines. Otherwise, it means nothing. To anyone. In fact, it's pretty much a running joke by everyone who is not a far-left nutbag.

 

And lazy thinkers like yourself will simply never accept that you screwed your own pooch. You'll just keep calling people racists.

 

Too bad. There are actual racists who could use your attention.

[Tiberius]

4 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

Here's the thing: you don't know it plays a role...you think it plays a role, and that is enough for your to call him a racist.

 

And that is why you should particularly heed the previous note of TYTT. You've overplayed your hand on the race card. You're not alone. So did Obama. And so did the entire left. There was/is to be no criticism of Barry that was/is not directly tied to racism.

 

Don't like Obamacare? You're a racist.

 

Don't like Cash for Clunkers? Racist.

 

Don't like Recovery Act? Racist.

 

You shot your wad. The only people who take that serious are people whose name ends up in all the headlines. Otherwise, it means nothing. To anyone. In fact, it's pretty much a running joke by everyone who is not a far-left nutbag.

 

And lazy thinkers like yourself will simply never accept that you screwed your own pooch. You'll just keep calling people racists.

 

Too bad. There are actual racists who could use your attention.

Ya right, if Trump did those things you'd go, well Clinton! And let it go 

[Azalin]

3 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

Too bad. There are actual racists who could use your attention.

 

 

Not only that, too few appear to realize how overuse of the term 'racist' begins to lessen its stigma. If you have one half of the country calling the other half racist all the time, especially when it's untrue, it will eventually carry no weight at all.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, Buddy Hix said:

Because your animosity towards the man based on his skin colour is obvious. Just let it out...

 

How do you come to the conclusion that BO was the worst president ever and got a pass based on being black? I’m just curious as to how you compartmentalize your bias.

 

I mean Clinton got the ball rolling on bank deregulation and Bush took the ball over the goal line causing a massive global recession. Bush also created a war that achieved nothing and was based on nothing. Nixon was turfed for committing crimes... but yeah BO is the worst ever.

LMAO

I genuinely think the colour of BO’s skin plays a role in that guy’s view that BO is the worst president ever. And it’s further demonstrated by his wanting to blame BO’s skin for shielding the man from criticism.

 

You honestly think that there isn’t a current of racism that drives the hate of BO and the love of Trump? And that the right isn’t aware of it and playing into it?

 

Van Jones, is that you?

 

Would it make you feel better if I said he was the worst for the following reasons:

 

1) ****ty economy

2) Obamacare  push-through with ZERO republican support after a promise of bipartisanship

3) Illegal spying on political opponents

4) utterly failed foreign policies, including the Red Line, the !@#$-up in Libya and letting ISIS overrun pretty much everywhere in the middle east

5) the Iran deal fiasco

6) TPP

7) Gun running to mexico

 

Or am I still a racist?

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by joesixpack

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Absolutely. Which is why this is too eerily similar to the 6 party talks in the early part of this century and even the earlier talks in thid 90s. Reading Trump's ecomment linked above, clinches it for me. Saying there is no longer a nuclear threat from N Korea means the roitd to lift the sanctions has been paved. Seems his rhetoric immediately after the summit regarding how the sanctions wouldn't be lifted until the nukes are gone was nothing more than to placate those that were worried he gave up something for nothing. Because until the nukes really are disposed of and every site is verified by the IAEA, including military installations (as was agreed to twice previously in writing), then that's exactly what he did if the sanctions are lifted. 

 

Though the inspections were agreed to on paper, they weren't allowed almost immediately, but we kept sending them fuel & everything else we bribed them with.

 

I really would like to see US inspectors involved along w/ the UN.  But regardless of how that ends up getting handled, AFAICS, the US at this point has given up nothing to NK.  We agree that a framework to lift the sanctions is in place.  We disagree as to the trigger to release them.  I believe they won't be lifted until the nukes are gone & WE have verified that.  You believe they'll be lifted sooner.  We shall see.  Either way, we should have a good idea of how it'll play out by the '20 election.

 

And regardless of how it does play out, this one is different in that the US has actually gotten stuff already.  In the past it was always NK getting stuff up front for promises to do stuff later.  What have they gotten to date except a photo op?

Edited June 13, 2018 by Taro T

[row_33]

i enjoy reading people's 5-points that they insist have to be met for them to be happy

 

what is the highest level of security clearance you have received?

 

is you life really this pointless to act like your concerns mean anything at all?

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

 

Though theinspections were agreed to on paper, they weren't allowed almostimmediately, but we kept sending them fuel & everything else we bribed them with.

 

I really would like to see USinspectorsinvolved alobg w/ the UN.  But regardless of how that ends up getting handled, AFAICS, the US at this point has given up nothing to NK.  We agree that a framework to lift the sanctions is in place.  We disagree as to the trigger to release them.  I believe they won't be lifted until the nukes are gone & WE have verified that.  You believe they'll be lifted sooner.  We shall see.  Either way, we should have a good idea of how it'll play out by the '20 election.

 

And regardless of how it does play out, this one is different in that the US has actually gotten stuff already.  In the past it was always NK getting stuff up front for promises to do stuff later.  What have they gotten to date except a photo op?

 

I don't want the UN ANYWHERE NEAR this process.

 

I want it to be American inspectors.

 

[Taro T]

53 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

I don't want the UN ANYWHERE NEAR this process.

 

I want it to be American inspectors.

 

 

As long as the US inspectors are leading the process, the UN can ride at the back of the bus.

[TakeYouToTasker]

5 minutes ago, Azalin said:

 

Not only that, too few appear to realize how overuse of the term 'racist' begins to lessen its stigma. If you have one half of the country calling the other half racist all the time, especially when it's untrue, it will eventually carry no weight at all.

 

We're already well past that point.  There was a time I would reflexively recoil and attempt to explain that I wasn't a racist, I just had different ideas about human nature, the importance of the individual, and how integral freedom and liberty were to the betterment of the human condition; and that the absolute protections we need to bring out the best in us, also required us to tolerate ideas we hate, because if we did not, the protections of our own ideas were not absolute, and we were not truly free.

 

Now I tell them to !@#$ off, and they're bad people who make unfounded charges of racism because their ideas don't stand up to intellectual rigor.

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Though the inspections were agreed to on paper, they weren't allowed almost immediately, but we kept sending them fuel & everything else we bribed them with.

 

I really would like to see US inspectors involved along w/ the UN.  But regardless of how that ends up getting handled, AFAICS, the US at this point has given up nothing to NK.  We agree that a framework to lift the sanctions is in place.  We disagree as to the trigger to release them.  I believe they won't be lifted until the nukes are gone & WE have verified that.  You believe they'll be lifted sooner.  We shall see.  Either way, we should have a good idea of how it'll play out by the '20 election.

 

And regardless of how it does play out, this one is different in that the US has actually gotten stuff already.  In the past it was always NK getting stuff up front for promises to do stuff later.  What have they gotten to date except a photo op?

Given the immediacy with which China urged the lifting of sanctions and the likelihood of other nations like Russia and S Korea also working behind the scenes, why else would Trump seemingly contradict himself only a day after saying no sanctions relief until the nukes are gone by then saying N Korea is no longer a nuclear threat? Yeah, I believe sanctions will be lifted sooner than later and MUCH sooner than a fully verified denuclearization of N Korea would take. What else explains Trump's overnight shift?

 

Per you last paragraph, other than an agreement to reach an agreement, what have we gotten? The hostages were already home before the summit and, while I appreciate the act of good faith, it was no longer something they could offer at the table. And we've seen the same regarding the return of remains in the past. 

[3rdnlng]

22 minutes ago, row_33 said:

i enjoy reading people's 5-points that they insist have to be met for them to be happy

 

what is the highest level of security clearance you have received?

 

is you life really this pointless to act like your concerns mean anything at all?

 

Stupid people trying to give their opinions on a message board. What's next, they'll want to participate in democracy?

[Deranged Rhino]