Josh Allen story

[2003Contenders]

36 minutes ago, DefenseWins said:

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/ej-manuel/

 

Haven't seen this before... Notice the throwing velocity score and the wonderlic score for EJ... I think Allen has significantly more velocity on his throws and his wonderlic score I believe was significantly higher as well in relation to EJ's... Not sure how you compare the program at Wyoming to FSU in terms of coaching prep and the quality of the players around them either... Bottom Line = I'll be content to wait and see Allen play in preseason at least before making any judgements on him. I am cautiously optimistic though.

 

Yea, I don't see the EJ comparisons that have been thrown around. I get the cautionary tale about EJ being a quality person, intelligent and having all the physical tools. The problem is that the QB position never came natural for him. There were clear signs of this before he came out, and Jimbo Fisher suggested that he would struggle making it to the next level. I think EJ tried his best, but he never seemed to get beyond the "Let's see, my left foot goes here. My right goes..."  It always seemed to me that he was over-thinking the small things that should come without thinking at all.

 

I don't see that with Josh Allen. He was born to play QB, and everything does seem much more fluid and natural for him. I also do not see the "Boom or Bust" analysis that so many lazy draft "experts" have predicted about him. It is true that his up-side is boundless, thanks to his off-the-charts natural talent. However, I don't see the bust potential a la JaMarucus Russell. Russell had a cannon for an arm, but he entered the league completely unmotivated. Remember, he was drafted before the rookie wage scale, so he knew he had tens of millions in guaranteed money from day one. I don't see that in Allen. Allen's accuracy issues are well documented and he will need to adjust to the speed of the game. In all honesty, I am more concerned about the attributes of the Bills coaching staff to get him where he needs to be than I am worried about Allen's attributes. Still, I see  Josh Allen's floor as more of a Blake Bortles -- talented but inconsistent -- rather than being a true bust.

[BUFFALOTONE]

10 hours ago, Augie said:

People loved EJ, too. Every situation is different, and I pray we got this one right. Time will tell. 

 

 

“Time will tell” seems to be a theme. Anyone who thinks they KNOW the answer now is kidding themselves, but not me. Even if you turn out to be right, you just guessed. 

I’m a die hard Noles fan and I didn’t love EJ Manual.... this kid is a lot different 

[All_Pro_Bills]

18 minutes ago, BUFFALOTONE said:

I’m a die hard Noles fan and I didn’t love EJ Manual.... this kid is a lot different 

I also don't see a lot of similarities between Allen and EJ.  But what I do see is a lot of skepticism among Bills fans.   That's understandable after many years of failure and frustration with this team, especially at the QB spot.  I'm skeptical too.  But the idea that our team made the correct move by picking Allen and he will resolve the long standing problem at QB is just unbelievable to many.  To me it just feels different this time, I'm not QB expert, and until I see evidence to the contrary I trust the team's front office and coaches made the right choice and Allen will be an outstanding QB for many years.  Sure I might be wrong but at this point in time there's not enough evidence to prove either case. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by All_Pro_Bills

[MrEpsYtown]

2 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Have the members of TBD arrived at a conclusion as to who will play Mr. Allen in his Hollywood biopic?

 

I'm going James Franco

[US Egg]

2 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Have the members of TBD arrived at a conclusion as to who will play Mr. Allen in his Hollywood biopic?

 

Rumor is it's going to be a Pegula Sports Entertainment production directed by Kim Pegula.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Ifartalot

[US Egg]

6 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I'm going James Franco

..... heard Jonah Hill been getting ready for the  part:

 

 

However Josh Allen's career could go, Jonah Hill can play him looking like a loser or a winner.

[Augie]

37 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

EJ was a marginal talent, and a first round reach.

'People loved EJ'??

Sounds like you must know his mother.....

 

Yes, you must not have been paying attention. He was on Mike & Mike and all the other ESPN shows, plus a lot of radio. By ALL accounts EJ the person is a terrific young man. THAT is what I’m talking about at this stage in the game. When they step on the football field, that goes out the window. 

1 hour ago, BUFFALOTONE said:

I’m a die hard Noles fan and I didn’t love EJ Manual.... this kid is a lot different 

 

My son got three degrees from FSU during the EJ days and even he said “are you kidding me???” 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

EJ was a marginal talent, and a first round reach.

'People loved EJ'??

Sounds like you must know his mother.....

 

Keeping it real

-There was a lot of hopeful talk and excitement when EJM was drafted...positive articles in the press, and hopeful talk on this forum

-Not all from EJM and his mother unless his mom claimed control of a bunch of accounts here and several reporter bylines

-EJM seemed like a very likeable and decent person - just like Allen does now - so why would it be a stretch to think people loved him?

 

 

[thurst44]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Yes, you must not have been paying attention. He was on Mike & Mike and all the other ESPN shows, plus a lot of radio. By ALL accounts EJ the person is a terrific young man. THAT is what I’m talking about at this stage in the game. When they step on the football field, that goes out the window. 

 

My son got three degrees from FSU during the EJ days and even he said “are you kidding me???” 

Wrapping these things together, the hiring recruiter at the job where I was working when EJ was drafted was an FSU grad and about the biggest Seminole supporter you could ever meet (to an absurd degree), also a huge Dolphins fan who was never a jerk about my Bills fandom. His reaction was that "you'll love EJ as a person and really want to root for him" but that he's a long shot to ever be a great QB. 

[LABILLBACKER]

Just give me a qb willing to take some risks with 50/50 balls. Give me a qb who can get to 60%. Give me a qb with leadership qualities. If Allen can get close to any of these traits then I'll be satisfied. Give him time to develop like Rodgers.

[MiltonWaddams]

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Just give me a qb willing to take some risks with 50/50 balls. Give me a qb who can get to 60%. Give me a qb with leadership qualities. If Allen can get close to any of these traits then I'll be satisfied. Give him time to develop like Rodgers.

I am confident on the first and last requirements you have in your list with Allen. It's the middle one that all the naysayers are questioning. 

On the EJ comparisons; the only reason to compare them is that they are nice, hard-working guys drafted by the Bills in the first round. They are not the same player and had very different ceilings when they entered the league.

[Jauronimo]

10 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said:

I actually agree with you on your second point.  Nothing annoys me more than people who are so over the top certain as to whether or not a guy's gonna be good or not.  As I've pointed out multiple times, literally half the posters on this website were all "BWAHAHAHAHAHA the Panthers are so stupid" when they took Cam Newton.  Yet no one is ever held accountable.  They just do the same thing about the next guy the next year, even though all they know about the guy is a five minute highlight tape on youtube over some s****y rap music (seriously, why is it always the worst rap music?)

 

As far as your first point, dude, EJ Manuel is a guy who was projected to go (and should have gone) in the third round in THE WORST DRAFT IN NFL HISTORY.  And it was also the worst draft for quarterbacks in NFL history.  Josh Allen is a guy who had been in the conversation for the #1 pick in an above average QB draft class (at least at the time of the draft) for a year and a half.  The Manuel-Allen comparison is just tired and lazy.  Doesn't mean Allen is gonna be good.  He could be worse than Manuel.  But Allen is a WAY, WAY more hyped and highly touted prospect coming into the NFL.

Clearly, you've never seen the CJ Spiller Jacoby Ford highlight reel set to Regulators. 

[Augie]

10 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said:

I actually agree with you on your second point.  Nothing annoys me more than people who are so over the top certain as to whether or not a guy's gonna be good or not.  As I've pointed out multiple times, literally half the posters on this website were all "BWAHAHAHAHAHA the Panthers are so stupid" when they took Cam Newton.  Yet no one is ever held accountable.  They just do the same thing about the next guy the next year, even though all they know about the guy is a five minute highlight tape on youtube over some s****y rap music (seriously, why is it always the worst rap music?)

 

As far as your first point, dude, EJ Manuel is a guy who was projected to go (and should have gone) in the third round in THE WORST DRAFT IN NFL HISTORY.  And it was also the worst draft for quarterbacks in NFL history.  Josh Allen is a guy who had been in the conversation for the #1 pick in an above average QB draft class (at least at the time of the draft) for a year and a half.  The Manuel-Allen comparison is just tired and lazy.  Doesn't mean Allen is gonna be good.  He could be worse than Manuel.  But Allen is a WAY, WAY more hyped and highly touted prospect coming into the NFL.

 

I went back and edited to make the first point clear. People loved EJ at this point as a fine young man. He’s a good interview.  At this point he hadn’t played any pro football yet, so while many were skeptical (as I was), he was given a little bit of a break while we held our breath. People loved the person, not so much the football player. I never thought he’d be a good pro, since he never impressed me in college (and I saw A LOT of him at FSU). 

 

I have no idea what will become of Allen. 

[NickelCity]

3 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

EJ was a marginal talent, and a first round reach.

'People loved EJ'??

Sounds like you must know his mother.....

 

You seriously don't remember? EJ is/was a nice kid who desperately wanted to do well, and we ate it up. Nothing wrong with that, either. 

[FearLess Price]

45 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Clearly, you've never seen the CJ Spiller Jacoby Ford highlight reel set to Regulators. 

 

Regulators is a classic record.

 

CJ Spiller is not classic. Had potential tho. I think Nasa is still trying to get him in space

 

[Jauronimo]

Just now, FearLess Price said:

 

Regulators is a classic record.

 

CJ Spiller is not classic. Had potential tho. I think Nasa is still trying to get him in space

 

Now I'm not suggesting that it will be a bigger disaster than Challenger, but unless NASA has hired Megamind Chan Gailey, this effort will be worse than 5 Challengers.     

[Hapless Bills Fan]

28 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I went back and edited to make the first point clear. People loved EJ at this point as a fine young man. He’s a good interview.  At this point he hadn’t played any pro football yet, so while many were skeptical (as I was), he was given a little bit of a break while we held our breath. People loved the person, not so much the football player. I never thought he’d be a good pro, since he never impressed me in college (and I saw A LOT of him at FSU). 

 

I have no idea what will become of Allen. 

 

I just wanted to expand on this a bit - and again, just talking about EJ here, not trying to make Allen comparisons. 

 

People loved EJ as a fine young man, but we were also hopeful about EJ's potential as a QB.   We forget that.  Read-option was all the rage at the time, and respected QB pundits like Greg Cosell saw positives: " "When you look at Manuel, there's a lot to work with. There's size, there's arm strength, there's athleticism, and I think he can run read-option stuff," Cosell said. "There are concerns here, but then when you look at some of the positives -- stronger arm, the movement, at times he was very composed -- I'm very anxious to see where he gets drafted, because he gives you that read-option factor."  

 

He was seen as solid (for a rookie) in two preseason performances before going out with a knee injury.  (People like to remember the the hospitality tent and the London game with 3 turnovers in 3 minutes, but those were 2 years later)  Everyone conveniently forgets he had 78% completions during his first 2 preseason games and hope was high that he would develop into The Man as our QB.  He looked pretty dang good in his 2nd game as a rookie against Carolina, in fact 4 or so of his rookie season games were promising.   He looked pretty awful in others, but that's not atypical for rookies.

 

I'm not questioning the judgement of people who saw him at FSU and didn't like the pick.  I'm just pointing out that others loved the pick, and that the narrative that seems to be being crafted that EJM was universally held to be a sucky pick from the start given no chance to succeed by anyone, nor ever showed any promise on a football field, is false.  Just like the narrative that we all loved him as a guy and hated him as a football player.  It's revisionist, folks.

[FappyTheClown]

Nobody is calling Allen "Toilet Manuel" either.

[GaryPinC]

12 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

wonder how EJ might have done, and for that matter JP, if not for the rotating clown circus that was the Bills Front Office during the drought.

Well, Oakland's got EJ now at some point the question will be answered and JP cycled through the Raiders, Seahawks, and Dolphins before his career ended.  Do you really wonder about how JP might have done?  It's pretty emphatic to me.

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I just wanted to expand on this a bit - and again, just talking about EJ here, not trying to make Allen comparisons. 

 

People loved EJ as a fine young man, but we were also hopeful about EJ's potential as a QB.   We forget that.  Read-option was all the rage at the time, and respected QB pundits like Greg Cosell saw positives: " "When you look at Manuel, there's a lot to work with. There's size, there's arm strength, there's athleticism, and I think he can run read-option stuff," Cosell said. "There are concerns here, but then when you look at some of the positives -- stronger arm, the movement, at times he was very composed -- I'm very anxious to see where he gets drafted, because he gives you that read-option factor."  

 

He was seen as solid (for a rookie) in two preseason performances before going out with a knee injury.  (People like to remember the the hospitality tent and the London game with 3 turnovers in 3 minutes, but those were 2 years later)  Everyone conveniently forgets he had 78% completions during his first 2 preseason games and hope was high that he would develop into The Man as our QB.  He looked pretty dang good in his 2nd game as a rookie against Carolina, in fact 4 or so of his rookie season games were promising.   He looked pretty awful in others, but that's not atypical for rookies.

 

I'm not questioning the judgement of people who saw him at FSU and didn't like the pick.  I'm just pointing out that others loved the pick, and that the narrative that seems to be being crafted that EJM was universally held to be a sucky pick from the start given no chance to succeed by anyone, nor ever showed any promise on a football field, is false.  Just like the narrative that we all loved him as a guy and hated him as a football player.  It's revisionist, folks.

 

This is fair and balanced, and I believe accurate. I certainly hoped the tools that Cosell noted would turn into something special. I tend to trust the professionals more than my own eyes or the people here. That is more true with the current FO than it was with previous regimes. So, again, I am hopeful. I hope it ends better! ?