Thurmal34 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Can a President pardon himself for anything he sees fit? If yes, does that make him/her above the rule of law in America? If no, is he subject to the normal investigatory process? Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 55 minutes ago, Thurmal34 said: Discuss. I have a better idea, Einstein - why not tell us what you think. I'm sure this will be most illuminating indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Why are you asking the six nutjobs on what remains of this board? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Why are you asking the six nutjobs on what remains of this board? You, Tibs, Baskin, Thurmal, LAGrant, and #34? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: Why are you asking the six nutjobs on what remains of this board? Hit-and-run posting refers to a tactic where a poster at an Internet forum enters, makes a post, only to disappear immediately after.[1] The term comes from the hit-and-run crime on auto vehicles, in which the driver hits another car or person causing an accident and then flees the scene. It is also known as making a "drive-by" posting, a play on the phrase drive-by shooting. The post often consists of a lengthy text making lots of claims that can be, but are not always, on topic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit-and-run_posting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Or, hit and run posting can consist of a short pithy comment expressing the feelings/position/beliefs of an individual who wishes to make that comment, but not enter into an attempt at discourse with some of the Johnny-come-lately posters ( See knuckle draggers) new to the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) Everyone should self pardon, like Superman does: .....it's rude not too. Edited June 10, 2018 by Ifartalot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 17 minutes ago, Keukasmallies said: Or, hit and run posting can consist of a short pithy comment expressing the feelings/position/beliefs of an individual who wishes to make that comment, but not enter into an attempt at discourse with some of the Johnny-come-lately posters ( See knuckle draggers) new to the board. Or just calling them a Coach Tuesday works too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: Why are you asking the six nutjobs on what remains of this board? Nice contribution. Come up with that on your own, or did Tibs help you write it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 While the dipschiff OP is trolling (and will likely just start calling us all racists again), this is an interesting Constitutional question. What did the framers intend? Nothing in the Constitution prevents self-pardoning by the President. Was that intentional, or an oversight? I think it was intentional. Federalist No. 69 indicates that they intended that impeachment by the House, followed by removal by the Senate, is the primary remedy when a president (or any other impeachable official) misbehaves while in office. This would make sense, as the president, being the head of the executive branch, effectively controls the federal prosecutors, and it keeps in line with the separation of powers/checks and balances doctrine. Impeachment does not prohibit further prosecution, absent a pardon, and pardons are ineffective against impeachment proceedings. There is no way for a president to escape at least some liability for "high crimes and misdemeanors" while in office. Quote The President of the United States would be liable to be impeached, tried, and, upon conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes or misdemeanors, removed from office; and would afterwards be liable to prosecution and punishment in the ordinary course of law... ...He is to have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, EXCEPT IN CASES OF IMPEACHMENT; ...The power of the President, in respect to pardons, would extend to all cases, EXCEPT THOSE OF IMPEACHMENT. The governor of New York may pardon in all cases, even in those of impeachment, except for treason and murder. Is not the power of the governor, in this article, on a calculation of political consequences, greater than that of the President? All conspiracies and plots against the government, which have not been matured into actual treason, may be screened from punishment of every kind, by the interposition of the prerogative of pardoning. If a governor of New York, therefore, should be at the head of any such conspiracy, until the design had been ripened into actual hostility he could insure his accomplices and adherents an entire impunity. A President of the Union, on the other hand, though he may even pardon treason, when prosecuted in the ordinary course of law, could shelter no offender, in any degree, from the effects of impeachment and conviction. http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed69.asp 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Speaking of pardons I thought Donny was anti drug (dealers). So why why did he just pardon a woman who was trafficking for the cartels??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Speaking of pardons I thought Donny was anti drug (dealers). So why why did he just pardon a woman who was trafficking for the cartels??? Because she had completely changed her life around, had spent 22 years in prison and had prospects for being a positive influence on other people. Instead should we be spending taxpayer money to keep her locked up? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Depends if it’s total bogus garbage as it fully appears, then Trump can dismiss it with a shrug the Senate is the important deliberative body and would be the sounding board for the rightness of such an action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Koko78 said: While the dipschiff OP is trolling (and will likely just start calling us all racists again), this is an interesting Constitutional question. What did the framers intend? Nothing in the Constitution prevents self-pardoning by the President. Was that intentional, or an oversight? I think it was intentional. Federalist No. 69 indicates that they intended that impeachment by the House, followed by removal by the Senate, is the primary remedy when a president (or any other impeachable official) misbehaves while in office. This would make sense, as the president, being the head of the executive branch, effectively controls the federal prosecutors, and it keeps in line with the separation of powers/checks and balances doctrine. Impeachment does not prohibit further prosecution, absent a pardon, and pardons are ineffective against impeachment proceedings. There is no way for a president to escape at least some liability for "high crimes and misdemeanors" while in office. http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed69.asp Interesting. My problem with this take is the circumstances were such a situation could arise. Is the president pardoning himself/herself after being convicted? So that would mean a trial while in office, which I'm not sure can even happen. Now lets say say it's like the Nixon situation where he was given a blanket pardon for anything he may have done. Say a president issued himself/herself a blanket pardon the day before leaving office. I just don't see that being functional in a nation of laws. It would put the presidency into the above the law situation where presidents could do anything they wanted and then excuse themselves. The president swears an oath to preserver protect and defend the constitution, and to faithfully executte the laws, a self pardon would essentially violate that oath. It would never fly. Supreme Court would probably rule that unconstitutional and allow a prosecution of the president to go forward. 43 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Speaking of pardons I thought Donny was anti drug (dealers). So why why did he just pardon a woman who was trafficking for the cartels??? To remind his criminal cronies, who he can't talk to, that he has their backs if necessary. So don't sing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Just now, Tiberius said: The president swears an oath to preserver protect and defend the constitution, and to faithfully executte the laws, a self pardon would essentially violate that oath. It would never fly. Supreme Court would probably rule that unconstitutional and allow a prosecution of the president to go forward. Considering that the Constitution and US code puts no such restriction on the President, that a self-pardon would be a violation of oath is debatable - not wrong, just open to question. BUT...when does the President get tried in criminal court, anyway? The President gets tried in the House and Senate - which pardoning the Constitution does specifically prohibit. I think almost everyone is conflating multiple issues in the discussion. I suspect, if it were presented to the Supremes, how it would shake out is that the President can pardon himself for crimes committed before he became President, as those are not impeachable offenses, but can't for crimes during his term. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Interesting. My problem with this take is the circumstances were such a situation could arise. Is the president pardoning himself/herself after being convicted? So that would mean a trial while in office, which I'm not sure can even happen. Now lets say say it's like the Nixon situation where he was given a blanket pardon for anything he may have done. Say a president issued himself/herself a blanket pardon the day before leaving office. I just don't see that being functional in a nation of laws. It would put the presidency into the above the law situation where presidents could do anything they wanted and then excuse themselves. The president swears an oath to preserver protect and defend the constitution, and to faithfully executte the laws, a self pardon would essentially violate that oath. It would never fly. Supreme Court would probably rule that unconstitutional and allow a prosecution of the president to go forward. Pardons are not ordinarily reviewable, however I think it could be reviewed by SCOTUS to answer whether or not you can pre-pardon a person under the Constitution, whether you need to specify what specific 'crimes against the United States' are being pardoned, or whether there must actually be an active prosecution first (regardless of whether or not there is a conviction at the point of pardon.) I suspect that it would be the latter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Speaking of pardons I thought Donny was anti drug (dealers). So why why did he just pardon a woman who was trafficking for the cartels??? The force of Kanye’s dragon energy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Speaking of pardons I thought Donny was anti drug (dealers). So why why did he just pardon a woman who was trafficking for the cartels??? You could have just as easily asked, "I thought Donny hates women" or "I thought Donny hates blacks" and your point would be just as ridiculous. Try harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 scream at the sky, it's really the most useful thing you can do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 "self pardoning" sounds like something Leftists do while watching Stormy videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts