Tiberius Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 minute ago, billsfan89 said: The USA and England's versions of unfettered capitalism weren't sustainable, the massive amounts of inequality and relative poverty resulted in the welfare state and regulations. Many modern capitalism practicing nations don't do the unfettered version of capitalism because the massive levels of inequality were not sustainable. "Property rights, private ownership, and individual rights are hallmarks of capitalism, not limitations of it." Completely agree I do not know how you could infer that I was characterizing those things as limitations. I was not implying that at all, I am a big fan of capitalism just not without some degree of oversight by the government. Many? How about none. No country has just allowed unfettered capitalism for the exact reasons you stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 14 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: The USA and England's versions of unfettered capitalism weren't sustainable, the massive amounts of inequality and relative poverty resulted in the welfare state and regulations. Many modern capitalism practicing nations don't do the unfettered version of capitalism because the massive levels of inequality were not sustainable. "Property rights, private ownership, and individual rights are hallmarks of capitalism, not limitations of it." Completely agree I do not know how you could infer that I was characterizing those things as limitations. I was not implying that at all, I am a big fan of capitalism just not without some degree of oversight by the government. You do recognize that the biggest financial collapses occur not in "unfettered" capitalism, but when the helpful guiding hand of government regulation & support distorts the markets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 The biggest problems in the economy are also the most regulated. Health, Education, Housing, Banking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 5 hours ago, The_Dude said: How much should a man be taxed? I’ve been asking myself that a lot lately. How much is a patriotic sacrifice and at what point does it turn into tyrannical oppression? Because I’m at 25%. Think about it — if a man labors for 40 years he’ll have sacrificed 10 years of his labor to society to pay for roads, schools, and the military. That’s a lot to ask of a man, isn’t it? I think so. But I’m not paying $.25 on the dollar....I’m payin a lot more and I can’t help but ask myself ‘What Would Jefferson do?’ So, what do you think? At what point do taxes become oppressive and are we currently there? Maybe to the fed you pay 25% in income tax, but that is only a "small" part of it all State Income tax (I pay about 11%) County Income tax (I pay 3.3% to my county) then a 7% sales tax on anything i spend Tax on my utilities State gas tax Fed Gas Tax property tax school tax luxury tax alcohol tax License and tag fees I'm sure I missed a few ________________ add them all up and your probably over 50% in total Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 35 minutes ago, GG said: You do recognize that the biggest financial collapses occur not in "unfettered" capitalism, but when the helpful guiding hand of government regulation & support distorts the markets. Yes, if we can just go back to a time like it was before the Fed was created, or the SEC, of CFTC, of FDIC there'd be no crises. Just like there were no crises before those institutions were created...good times man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, TPS said: Yes, if we can just go back to a time like it was before the Fed was created, or the SEC, of CFTC, of FDIC there'd be no crises. Just like there were no crises before those institutions were created...good times man... No one said that financial crises didn't exist prior to the establishment of the government regulators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 32 minutes ago, GG said: No one said that financial crises didn't exist prior to the establishment of the government regulators Bigger financial crises are a consequence of a lighter government hand over finance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 3 hours ago, E. Side Bulldog said: It depends on the services you get in return. If I got taxed at 25%, I'd expect some health care, good roads, and military defense. It's the dumbest thing in the world to expect to pay zero taxes. It's myopic (to use a smarter word). Here's a better question: what are you doing to serve your country with the .$75 per dollar that you aren't forced to pay? We HAVE to pay taxes. I’m no dolt. My issue is I think when you calculate all of what you pay in taxes that it’s oppression when it crosses the 25% threshold. 80% of what I do as a business owner is pay taxes. Ok that’s hyperbole but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 hour ago, unbillievable said: The biggest problems in the economy are also the most regulated. Health, Education, Housing, Banking... Well let’s see....2008 financial meltdown due to LACK of financial oversight....Education...?....Most problems are inability of schools to make up for poor socioeconomics.....go to a middle/upper class town and schools are quite good.....housing...not sure where you are trying to go....Health....the entire sector needs to be restructured..... But hey....a one size fits all Mantra should make things great....... wait a second Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: So what's your solution then? The biggest parts of the budget are military and health care for the elderly. I think it was after the Milvian Bridge battle but I’m not sure and I’m not googling and if actually doesn’t matter. Constantine has power and the Rhine legions we’re reaping from constant Germanic raids in Gaul (France). Constantine needed to raise money for the defenses. The Empire was still suffering from the strains of debasement and inflation caused by Diocletian in his attempt to salvage the economic woes of the west. Constantine HAD to have money to refortify the frontier but nobody had more money to give. What he do? He cut taxes by 75%! See, the large estate owners constantly ducked their taxes by bribing officials for deferment. Only the poor were paying taxes. They did this because often when the throne was usurped the usurping General/emperor would forgive outstanding tax debts to garner good will and support. So the wealthy never paid their taxes because a debt forgiveness happened every 5-10 years. Constantine cut everybody’s taxes but collected from everybody and soon the treasury was flush. Can we use something from Constantines playbook today? I say yes. History is always a pretty stellar blueprint though it’s not always apples to apples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 20 minutes ago, TPS said: Bigger financial crises are a consequence of a lighter government hand over finance. Maybe more frequent, but def not bigger 17 minutes ago, baskin said: Well let’s see....2008 financial meltdown due to LACK of financial oversight... Ignorant as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 31 minutes ago, GG said: Maybe more frequent, but def not bigger Ignorant as usual. What was the biggest financial crisis when banks were heavily regulated from the 1930s to 1980? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, TPS said: What was the biggest financial crisis when banks were heavily regulated from the 1930s to 1980? What you call regulated, I'd call stifling. Tell me one plausible reason why a bank can't conduct business across state lines? Plus, the industry was quite different back then, catering mostly to the wealthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 9 hours ago, The_Dude said: At what point do taxes become oppressive and are we currently there? Living in Liberal governed New York or California be the best examples in the U.S. In 2018 of that query. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 On 6/8/2018 at 4:32 PM, GG said: You do recognize that the biggest financial collapses occur not in "unfettered" capitalism, but when the helpful guiding hand of government regulation & support distorts the markets. I suggest you read up about the finical panics that occurred during the 19th century and the early 20th century when markets were very lightly regulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 On 6/8/2018 at 2:36 PM, Tiberius said: But we had a big middle class back then. Now the rich just take all the money and the country has a huge debt. Tax the rich! Also no global competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 How do taxes become tranny? What’s the science for that? That’s way above my pay grade. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurmal34 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 when financial conservatives blow a 1.5 trillion dollar hole in the budget. that's when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 43 minutes ago, Thurmal34 said: when financial conservatives blow a 1.5 trillion dollar hole in the budget. that's when. Why does it need to be "financial conservatives" (whatever the $#@% that is supposed to mean) overspending the budget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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