Zerovoltz Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: Well if he says it it must true lol It's not just that.....but if you study it....and better yet....just take in the reality that they traded Smith away, when they didn't have to at all...for this guy....it speaks volumes.
gobills1212 Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 4 hours ago, LaDexter said: I must say that Josh Allen caught me off guard here. I kinda thought we were going to another "west coast" short pass type of QB. We gave Cardale Jones to the Chargers for nothing. He and Allen are almost clones - great physical talent, very raw at reading defenses/decision making etc.... I don't see why we did that. swapped out Jones only to spend a high first on Allen... Yikes...
oldmanfan Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: It's not just that.....but if you study it....and better yet....just take in the reality that they traded Smith away, when they didn't have to at all...for this guy....it speaks volumes. QB in the NFL is as much mental as physical. 1
Aussie Joe Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: It's not just that.....but if you study it....and better yet....just take in the reality that they traded Smith away, when they didn't have to at all...for this guy....it speaks volumes. Im sure the draft pick and player they got and freeing up some salary cap to subsequently waste on Watkins was also part of the decision.. And it was Smith.... not Rodgers, Brees or Brady.. I read Chiefs planet a few times during the year and they would have traded Smith for a bag of footballs.., particularly after the Bills loss.. oh .. and the playoff loss..lot of anger directed towards Smith then.. Edited June 11, 2018 by Aussie Joe
John from Riverside Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 23 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: It's not just that.....but if you study it....and better yet....just take in the reality that they traded Smith away, when they didn't have to at all...for this guy....it speaks volumes. Ppl see what they wanna see your qb didn’t look great in year one in th limited time he got and came from an air raid offense in college you may end up regretting the trade that sent your starter away 1
BB@Shooter Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/9/2018 at 3:52 PM, GaryPinC said: Allen is a better athlete then Mahomes? Not on this planet. Mahomes is far more mobile and accurate off balance then Allen. Allen is a great athlete for being a 6'5" gork, but Mahomes is quicker and more agile. Allen has a slightly stronger arm but Mahomes isn't far behind. Both QB's get the ball out very quickly but I give the edge to Mahomes because he's more compact. As far as Mahomes' footwork, a good part of it is unorthodox because he used to be a pitcher and that's the footwork he uses on his long throws. It's not like he doesn't set his feet it's just very unorthodox in this sport. The thing that separates Mahomes from almost any other quarterback is he processes the game and makes decisions at a very high level. The guy who wrote this article gets it, just check out the videos and explanations if you don't feel like wading through all the prose: https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/1/3/16842168/patrick-mahomes-all-22-vs-the-broncos-buckle-up That's why the Chiefs had no problem trading Alex Smith, not because of Mahomes' stats or any one play he did or didn't make. He got out there vs a pressure Bronco defense and made good reads and quick decisions. Are you still drunk, or has the rot gut whiskey begun to shut down your mind? 1
BB@Shooter Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 7 hours ago, LaDexter said: Big strong armed QBs who were inconsistent in college with reading defenses and decision making am I wrong about that?? Cardale won the national championship. Allen didn't. I guess that's where the comparison ends... Allen ran out of a pro style offense. He had to read defenses. He called a lot of plays at the line of scrimmage under center. Do you even know what type of offense Cardale ran? A small hint, Urban Meyers. 7 hours ago, LaDexter said: No question that Aaron Rodgers was a complete bust - sat on the bench for THREE YEARS!!!! The Big 10 championship vs Wisconsin is a tape full of HOF caliber throws by Cardale. But you don't wanna hear that now.... Indeed, I'll take that tape of Cardale vs. Wisconsin vs any Josh Allen tape... Cardale mostly ran option. I watched Meyer at all of his stops. Especially Utah,Florida, and Ohio State. They ran a veer at times, but Meyer is definitely a college coach. Ohio State can surround a qb with walk ons, you can't begin to compare the two. I for one was suprised Jones even got drafted. Or did he? Lol.
Zerovoltz Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 40 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said: Are you still drunk, or has the rot gut whiskey begun to shut down your mind? GaryPinC is seeing what I am seeing. BB@Shooter....curious to know your thoughts on Allens development...should he sit? should he play now? What do you think about what you've seen and hear about him so far? 4 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Ppl see what they wanna see your qb didn’t look great in year one in th limited time he got and came from an air raid offense in college you may end up regretting the trade that sent your starter away Submitted without further comment.
Putin Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/9/2018 at 4:52 PM, GaryPinC said: Allen is a better athlete then Mahomes? Not on this planet. Mahomes is far more mobile and accurate off balance then Allen. Allen is a great athlete for being a 6'5" gork, but Mahomes is quicker and more agile. Allen has a slightly stronger arm but Mahomes isn't far behind. Both QB's get the ball out very quickly but I give the edge to Mahomes because he's more compact. As far as Mahomes' footwork, a good part of it is unorthodox because he used to be a pitcher and that's the footwork he uses on his long throws. It's not like he doesn't set his feet it's just very unorthodox in this sport. The thing that separates Mahomes from almost any other quarterback is he processes the game and makes decisions at a very high level. The guy who wrote this article gets it, just check out the videos and explanations if you don't feel like wading through all the prose: https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/1/3/16842168/patrick-mahomes-all-22-vs-the-broncos-buckle-up That's why the Chiefs had no problem trading Alex Smith, not because of Mahomes' stats or any one play he did or didn't make. He got out there vs a pressure Bronco defense and made good reads and quick decisions. What are you talking about?? proses the game and his decision making is at the high level ? Half of his throws makes you think WTF was he thinking????
Prickly Pete Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) I heard Allen is really terrible, and the team is already worried...(I read it on a message board) Edited June 11, 2018 by OJABBA 2
Prickly Pete Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Putin said: Yes I also heard ( on this message board ) that playing flag football in shorts is more then enough to evaluate a rookie QB ? Yes Pootin', I also read that no one here knows anything about Allen's development, pro or con, and is full of poppycock if they act like they do. I know I read it here, because I wrote it. 2 1
reddogblitz Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/8/2018 at 12:11 PM, MJS said: Top 10 QB's usually don't start week 1 lately. Goff sat. Wentz started. Watson sat. Mahomes sat. Trubisky sat. Eli sat.
John from Riverside Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 6 hours ago, Zerovotlz said: GaryPinC is seeing what I am seeing. BB@Shooter....curious to know your thoughts on Allens development...should he sit? should he play now? What do you think about what you've seen and hear about him so far? Submitted without further comment. Well....as you say you are bias The question is why are you being bias on our board and expecting anyone to agree with you?
ToGoGo Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) On 6/8/2018 at 8:33 PM, BillnutinHouston said: Kindly elaborate with details. Kelvin Benjamin - Good WR1, great WR2. Strong intermediate to long threat. Great red zone guy. Can out jump guys for long balls, but something about his build and the way he runs, his injury proneness makes me nervous to work him too much on long routes. I don't see him as a home run type guy that we need with Allen. If you watch his highlights with Newton, most of his big plays were 30-40 yard passes, which most NFL QBs can make. Zay Jones - Potential to be a great WR2/WR3 hybrid. Short to intermediate guy, Jeremy Kerley - Another WR2/WR3 hybrid that can go long, but not elite speed. Rod Streater - Can go long, but more like a rich man's Deonte Thompson. Brandon Reilly- WR2/WR3 potential Andre Holmes - End zone guy This WR corp is built to be good at short and intermediate throws, with the occasional 30-40 yard throw to Benjamin or Kerley/Streater. Josh Allen has a top 5 arm in the NFL already, where is his AJ Green? Where is his Don Beebe? Heck, we could use a Goodwin right now. Who is he going to throw the ball 60 yards to? This team was built with the expectation of a Peterman, Cousins, Bradford, McCarron type QB coming here. Next year the team will need to pick up better WRs. With the Chris Ivory pickup, we're going to have a strong run game, with a game manager, pocket passer type QB. Allen will start next year, unless something goes wrong. This roster will limit him this year. Edited June 11, 2018 by musichunch
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 'How is Josh Allen doing so far'? Still hasn't signed off on who is going to portray him in his authorized biopic.
Mr. WEO Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 8 hours ago, reddogblitz said: Eli sat. Longer than most, by far (only 9 games though).
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 9 hours ago, OJABBA said: Yes Pootin', I also read that no one here knows anything about Allen's development, pro or con, and is full of poppycock if they act like they do. I know I read it here, because I wrote it. You just wait until Dunkirk Dave checks in with 'insider information'. 1
GaryPinC Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 18 hours ago, Zerovotlz said: The idea was to check the QB rating for each of these QB's over the course of the first 16 games they started in the NFL. IF sitting was a benefit to a NFL superbowl caliber QB, you would think that among this group, those who sat signifigant time to start their career, would have a highter QB rating over their first 16 games started, having sat an learned, practiced more before starting out, etc etc. What that data actually shows is that of that group of super bowl starting caliber QB, their QB rating over the course of their first 16 games was basically identical. the sit and learn group was actually a point or 2 lower in QB rating than the start from day one group. The most telling thing about the data to me was that the rating for these guys was almost the same on average for the their frist 16 games. The data says that if a QB is going to be good/great, it is because he had the talent to begin with and that over the first 16 games of his career, he does NOT gain an advantage having sat. He learns to be an NFL QB at the same rate as the guy who started from day 1 by BEING ON THE FIELD AND PLAYING NFL GAMES...not reading playbooks, not studying film....not watching someone else do it. ......and then YES...I go against my own analysis for Josh Allen and strongly suggest that to ME...in my opinion....is the rare guy who probably would actually see tangible improvement by sitting a year to start with....I do not think that Wyoming prepared him for NFL football at all. (I frankly don't think he'll ever be that good) ...but playing behind a poor line, with poor talent around you, means you repeated over and over again...a lot of things that didn't prepare you to be a good NFL QB. If all your reps were running for your life, throwing to slow targets, then Allen would be a guy who would actually benefit from staying OFF an NFL field on game day until he has made real progress on the practice field. No one is saying he doesn't have the build, the arm, the brains....but he simply doesn't have anywhere near the QUALITY REPS most others got in college football to be ready. To be CLEAR....Wentz, Goff, even Mahomes....got A LOT more out of their time in college football than Allen did. He needs this year to get right. I'm not convinced he'll ever be accurate enough for the NFL...I didn't think he'd ever be before the draft, and I still don't....what I am SURE about is that he shouldn't be thrown out on the field now. That wouldn't be fair to him...and it wouldn't be fair to you, the fans of the Bills to ruin this kid because he wasn't ready. To summarize. Yes, I think if you believe a QB is the real deal, he needs to start....Yes, I think Allen needs to sit because he is the exception due to his unusual college career. And lastly....Mahomes is going melt your faces off this year. So it makes sense that your sit vs start superbowl QB's could perform nearly identically their first 16 games AND the QB's that sat out benefited from the learning time if each coach wanted a similar degree of mental proficiency before letting their QB start. Just depends on the individual, the situation, and your perspective. Also, some QB's benefit from studying, others won't put the effort in and prefer to learn it when playing and this may skew the numbers. There are a ton of other variables (quality of coaching, quality of the offense, etc) No easy answers, I definitely respect your efforts to quantify it though. At the end of the day, the coach has to decide if the rookie QB can come in, absorb the offense and run it effectively (quick decisions) at the NFL level. If not, let him sit until he can. I suspect this is behind the plan for Josh Allen. Not whether he should be annointed starter from day 1 or do we mandate he sit a year or more? Yes Allen is a better Athlete. He’s 3 inches taller 25 pounds heavier and he ran a faster 40. 4.75 compared to 4.8... he is also shifty and elusive especially for his size Josh Allen also breaks way more tackles in the pocket and outside the pocket than Mahomes. He’s a better athlete on the football field So Allen runs the 40 0.05 seconds faster and that automatically means he's the better athlete? Watching both QB's college film, I found Mahomes much more agile on the field. We'll have to agree to disagree. 11 hours ago, Putin said: What are you talking about?? proses the game and his decision making is at the high level ? Half of his throws makes you think WTF was he thinking???? Both Zerovotlz and I linked articles breaking down and discussing Mahomes' decision making. If you looked through both of them and are at this point of wonder, further discussion is pointless. Time will tell and I have no problem owning being wrong.
eball Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 Glad to see everyone falling for the Chefs' fan troll bait...geez. 2
Buffalo716 Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, GaryPinC said: So it makes sense that your sit vs start superbowl QB's could perform nearly identically their first 16 games AND the QB's that sat out benefited from the learning time if each coach wanted a similar degree of mental proficiency before letting their QB start. Just depends on the individual, the situation, and your perspective. Also, some QB's benefit from studying, others won't put the effort in and prefer to learn it when playing and this may skew the numbers. There are a ton of other variables (quality of coaching, quality of the offense, etc) No easy answers, I definitely respect your efforts to quantify it though. At the end of the day, the coach has to decide if the rookie QB can come in, absorb the offense and run it effectively (quick decisions) at the NFL level. If not, let him sit until he can. I suspect this is behind the plan for Josh Allen. Not whether he should be annointed starter from day 1 or do we mandate he sit a year or more? So Allen runs the 40 0.05 seconds faster and that automatically means he's the better athlete? Watching both QB's college film, I found Mahomes much more agile on the field. We'll have to agree to disagree. Both Zerovotlz and I linked articles breaking down and discussing Mahomes' decision making. If you looked through both of them and are at this point of wonder, further discussion is pointless. Time will tell and I have no problem owning being wrong. No I also said breaks more tackles inside and outside the pocket as well. That coupled with Joshs good elusiveness for his size makes him the better athlete on the field imo even if Mahomes has more agility
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