Terrell Owens Declined His Invitation to the Pro Football Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony

[Rico]

Just now, Golden Goat said:

 

Yeah, to hell with his 162 TDs. Let's judge him based on one playoff game.

By far the biggest game of his career. Totally gutless.

[Golden Goat]

3 minutes ago, Rico said:

By far the biggest game of his career. Totally gutless.

 

So Jim Kelly sucks, too, right? Andre? Thurman? 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Golden Goat

[Rico]

Just now, Golden Goat said:

 

So Jim Kelly sucks, too, right?

No, Jimbo was very, very tough. So was Phillip Rivers that day.

[Golden Goat]

2 minutes ago, Rico said:

No, Jimbo was very, very tough. So was Phillip Rivers that day.

 

All good. Just wanted to confirm that you're judging a Hall of Famer -- Top 5 all-time in most statistical categories on crappy teams -- by one game. Thank you.

[Rico]

Just now, Golden Goat said:

 

All good. Just wanted to confirm that you're judging a Hall of Famer -- Top 5 all-time in most statistical categories on crappy teams -- by one game. Thank you.

Well, stats are for losers.  And LT was a chump and a loser in by far the biggest game of his career. He would not have gotten my vote, definitely not first ballot.

[Golden Goat]

1 minute ago, Rico said:

Well, stats are for losers.  And LT was a chump and a loser in by far the biggest game of his career. He would not have gotten my vote, definitely not first ballot.

 

And that's why your vote doesn't count.

[Rochesterfan]

12 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Horrible comment from him.
Sounds needy. Like relationship needy. Those voters seem hormonal>

Heart broken even.

 

 but yes , it is about on the field accomplishments. Thanks for the sad chuckle from me.

 

 

I disagree - I think these voters understand they are making decisions that reflect on the legacy of the player and what a huge honor it is.  TO deserves to get in, but if he is going to once again disrespect the process, the other classmates, and HOF by not showing up and calling them out again - then give the spot to someone that will appreciate it because there are other worthy candidates that will have to wait.

 

I can totally understand his position and I am guessing that it impacted others previously and that he is not alone in wishing he could take back his vote.

 

I think the HOF got it right - we are going to ignore this and we will celebrate those that attend.  I also think someone like Moss or Irving will get in TO’s ear and tell him to get his butt there as this is special and in the end he will show up.

[Rochesterfan]

12 hours ago, Dopey said:

You know hom well enough to call him a messed up human being? Aside from doing things you don't like, what has he done to be a messed up human being? Did he cut Nicole's head off or something?

Free ageny and $. Who cares if he bounced around. Follow the $.

It was not money as much as teams that would take him.  

 

He was technically traded from SF to Philadelphia after his agent screwed up.  In SF - he got in repeated arguments with teammates and basically told the media he though Jeff Garcia was gay.  Not exactly a great teammate.

 

Philidelphia he got a 5 year contract - went to the SuperBowl in year 1, but called out his QB and effectively ended his Philly career.  Year 2 got in a fist fight with Hugh Douglas and was suspended and cut following the season - again a great teammate.

 

His one real FA push got him to Dallas for 3 years after which he was released.

 

Then 1 year in Buffalo and 1 year in Cincinnati and neither team nor any other teams wanted him really at that point.

 

He repeatedly had issues with teammates and other teams - including His celebrations in Dallas as a 49er and the sharpie incident, the football as a camera, etc. those do not endear you to other fan bases and media to help your induction chances.

 

He was suspended multiple times in his careers for conduct detrimental to the team and for his actions on the field - all of which should be taken into account when voting for a HOF candidate.  

 

His numbers make him worthy - his actions and antics deem him questionable and in the end it took a couple of years, but they decided he was worthy and once again his antics make the media question that decision.

[SouthNYfan]

7 hours ago, Golden Goat said:

 

All good. Just wanted to confirm that you're judging a Hall of Famer -- Top 5 all-time in most statistical categories on crappy teams -- by one game. Thank you.

 

8 hours ago, Golden Goat said:

Your entire argument is, "According to... uh... people... TO was better." Until you look at the stats and start thinking for yourself, I have no use for you. Sorry.

 

Looking at the stats and thinking for myself does show something.

LT was on stacked teams many years, don't act like he wasn't.

 

TO :

16,185 yards from scrimmage (#12)

156 TD combined(#4 tied with moss)

153 TD receiving (#3 moss had no rushing)

15,934 receiving yards (#3)

1,078 receptions (#8)

 

 

 

LT:

18,456 years from scrimmage (#5)

162 TD combined (#2)

13,684 rushing yards (#6)

145 rushing TD (#2)

 

There is only one receiver with more yards from scrimmage or receiving than TO (the goat, Jerry rice), there are only two with more TDs (rice and moss, but he is tied with moss for today TDs including rushing)

 

TO was as good as LT in statistical rankings in relation to others.

I'm not sure why you "have no use for me" and like to act like TO was trash and nowhere in any lists.

 

Either LT should be higher on my list (#2-5 like TO and a first ballot) or TO should be higher on yours.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

I do think LT was a first ballot, but TO should have been as well, arguably moreso.

The argument was that TO shouldn't have been, which I think is absurd if you are just going by in the field performance.

[Go-Bills]

Very disrespectful to every one who helped him get there! He is a CHILD.......

[apuszczalowski]

15 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Come on man don’t strawman me you’re better than that. No, he doesn’t get anything tangibly special for being a first ballot HOFer. What I am saying is the perception is that the honor is different. The voters feel that way, the media makes the distiction. It’s not just a few football nerds.

 

The perception that he “bounced around” the league is false. He spent 8 years in SF. He left for more money, which is his right. Functionally he basically played for 3 more teams after that, he was done after Buffalo for all intents and purposes.

So what your saying is that there is no difference between getting in first ballot or 10th ballot except that he  will have a butt hurt ego because he is insulted he didnt get in the first time he was able to.

 

Does his plaque or bust even say how many tries he needed to get I to the HOF? Does he get to be put on the front row or in a special spot where he is more prominent then the ones who got in on their 4th or 5th time?

[mileena]

I find it disturbing here that supposed Bills fans are bashing a former Buffalo Bill. I guess you are just bandwagoners. TO was wronged by the HOF voters, and now they HOF looks like the scumbag organization it is. TO has the guts to teach them a lesson.

[JoPar_v2]

54 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

So what your saying is that there is no difference between getting in first ballot or 10th ballot except that he  will have a butt hurt ego because he is insulted he didnt get in the first time he was able to.

 

Does his plaque or bust even say how many tries he needed to get I to the HOF? Does he get to be put on the front row or in a special spot where he is more prominent then the ones who got in on their 4th or 5th time?

Wow. No - never did I say or even imply that TO is the one making the distinction between a first ballot HOFer and a player that is forced to wait multiple years. Where’d you even get that from?

[Golden Goat]

6 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

 

Looking at the stats and thinking for myself does show something.

LT was on stacked teams many years, don't act like he wasn't.

 

TO :

16,185 yards from scrimmage (#12)

156 TD combined(#4 tied with moss)

153 TD receiving (#3 moss had no rushing)

15,934 receiving yards (#3)

1,078 receptions (#8)

 

 

 

LT:

18,456 years from scrimmage (#5)

162 TD combined (#2)

13,684 rushing yards (#6)

145 rushing TD (#2)

 

There is only one receiver with more yards from scrimmage or receiving than TO (the goat, Jerry rice), there are only two with more TDs (rice and moss, but he is tied with moss for today TDs including rushing)

 

TO was as good as LT in statistical rankings in relation to others.

I'm not sure why you "have no use for me" and like to act like TO was trash and nowhere in any lists.

 

Either LT should be higher on my list (#2-5 like TO and a first ballot) or TO should be higher on yours.

 

You can't have it both ways.

The argument was that TO shouldn't have been, which I think is absurd if you are just going by in the field performance.

 

YES! Kudos for looking it up. If you're going to make a comment that X player is better than Y player and Z player, all I ask is that you attempt to back it up, which you have done here. For the record, comparing a RB to a WR -- to a DE -- to me -- is not very practical. But that's the hand we were dealt with your proclamation that TO was better than LT and Jason Taylor. I took exception with your "educated" comment -- I don't think that was much of an education. That's what started all of this. Agree to disagree on that, I guess. Onward.

 

<< Looking at the stats and thinking for myself does show something... TO was as good as LT in statistical rankings in relation to others. >>

Why did you omit the most important detail? TO played 15 seasons. (So did Emmitt Smith!) LT played 11. How does that not make LT's numbers all the more impressive?

 

<< Either LT should be higher on my list (#2-5 like TO and a first ballot) or TO should be higher on yours. You can't have it both ways. >>

Not asking for it both ways. You seem to think I dislike TO. Why? Because I have massive love for LT? To be clear, TO should have been a first-ballot HOFer. I'm not down on TO at all, other than his crappy attitude which caused him to bounce around the league. Had he stayed with one or two teams, he might have now been in the discussion for "best ever." But that didn't happen, and TO has nobody to blame for that but his big mouth and his lousy attitude. He had all the physical tools.

 

<< LT was on stacked teams many years, don't act like he wasn't. >>

And... You're back to your old ways. There's zero substance to this comment, much like your "educated" comment. Why shouldn't I act like he wasn't? Drew Brees wasn't "Drew Brees" when he was in San Diego. That's why he was traded. Philip Rivers is (to me) is a little above average at best. Who "stacked" these teams for a sustained period of time other than LT and Gates? OTOH, here were Owens' first four quarterbacks: Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Tony Romo. Let's not act like learning under -- and catching passes from -- a HOF QB is irrelevant. TO played with McNab and Romo in their primes. Give me either any day over Rivers. (TO made Jeff Garcia -- I will absolutely give you that). I'm more than happy to list players who stacked TO's teams, but it's common knowledge to even the most casual football fan that the 49ers, Cowboys and Eagles were loaded those years.

<< I'm not sure why you "have no use for me" and like to act like TO was trash and nowhere in any lists. >>

Lists? Don't you mean "click bait?" There are very few publications and writers I respect anymore. These "best of" lists are laughable to me. I want to hear YOUR rationale for YOUR points. Deflecting by essentially saying "I read it somewhere" neuters your argument. Also, please show me where I acted "like TO was trash." Please reference my specific quote(s). This should be good.

 

<< I do think LT was a first ballot, but TO should have been as well, arguably moreso. The argument was that TO shouldn't have been, which I think is absurd if you are just going by in the field performance. >>
Don't disagree with anything here but "moreso," for the above reasons. As much as you want to turn this into an argument about me saying TO was trash, there's just no "there" there -- and you know it. Sorry.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Golden Goat

[3rdand12]

8 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

I disagree - I think these voters understand they are making decisions that reflect on the legacy of the player and what a huge honor it is.  TO deserves to get in, but if he is going to once again disrespect the process, the other classmates, and HOF by not showing up and calling them out again - then give the spot to someone that will appreciate it because there are other worthy candidates that will have to wait.

 

I can totally understand his position and I am guessing that it impacted others previously and that he is not alone in wishing he could take back his vote.

 

I think the HOF got it right - we are going to ignore this and we will celebrate those that attend.  I also think someone like Moss or Irving will get in TO’s ear and tell him to get his butt there as this is special and in the end he will show up.

I respect your opinion. but i still feel ambiguous about what it takes to get into the HoF.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

The argument was that TO shouldn't have been, which I think is absurd if you are just going by in the field performance.

 

The criteria says nothing about "just going by onfield performance". It says contribution as a player. You are still a player in the locker room, in meetings and on the practice field. 

[SouthNYfan]

14 minutes ago, Golden Goat said:

 

YES! Kudos for looking it up. If you're going to make a comment that X player is better than Y player and Z player, all I ask is that you attempt to back it up, which you have done here. For the record, comparing a RB to a WR -- to a DE -- to me -- not very practical. But that's the hand we were dealt with your proclamation that TO was better than LT and Jason Taylor. I took exception with your "educated" comment -- I don't think that was much of an education. That's what started all of this. Agree to disagree on that, I guess. Onward.

 

<< Looking at the stats and thinking for myself does show something... TO was as good as LT in statistical rankings in relation to others. >>

Why did you omit the most important detail? TO played 15 seasons. (So did Emmitt Smith!) LT played 11. How does that not make LT's numbers all the more impressive?

 

<< Either LT should be higher on my list (#2-5 like TO and a first ballot) or TO should be higher on yours. You can't have it both ways. >>

Not asking for it both ways. You seem to think I dislike TO. Why? Because I have massive love for LT? To be clear, TO should have been a first-ballot HOFer. I'm not down on TO at all, other than his crappy attitude which caused him to bounce around the league. Had he stayed with one or two teams, he might have now been in the discussion for "best ever." But that didn't happen, and TO has nobody to blame for that but his big mouth and his attitude.

 

<< LT was on stacked teams many years, don't act like he wasn't. >>

And... You're back to your old ways. There's zero substance to this comment, much like your "educated" comment. Why shouldn't I act like he wasn't? Drew Brees wasn't "Drew Brees" when he was in San Diego. That's why he was traded. Philip Rivers is (to me) is a little above average at best. Who "stacked" these teams for a sustained period of time other than LT and Gates? OTOH, here were Owens' first four quarterbacks: Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Tony Romo. Let's not act like learning under -- and catching passes from -- a HOF QB is irrelevant. TO played with McNab and Romo in their primes. Give me either any day over Rivers. (TO made Jeff Garcia -- I will absolutely give you that). I'm more than happy to list players who stacked TO's teams, but it's common knowledge to even the most casual football fan that the 49ers, Cowboys and Eagles were loaded those years.

<< I'm not sure why you "have no use for me" and like to act like TO was trash and nowhere in any lists. >>

Lists? Don't you mean "click bait?" There are very few publications and writers I respect anymore. These "best of" lists are laughable to me. I want to hear YOUR rationale for YOUR points. Deflecting by essentially saying "I read it somewhere" neuters your argument. Also, please show me where I acted "like TO was trash." Please reference my specific quote(s). This should be good.

 

<< I do think LT was a first ballot, but TO should have been as well, arguably moreso. The argument was that TO shouldn't have been, which I think is absurd if you are just going by in the field performance. >>
Don't disagree with anything here but "moreso," for the above reasons. As much as you want to turn this into an argument about me saying TO was trash, there's just no "there" there -- and you know it. Sorry.

 

 

 

Your initial responses very much seemed to imply that LT was worthy first ballot and TO was not.

If that was not your intent, then it was misread by me.

TO's "big mouth and attitude" shouldn't be held against him, since the NFL HoF committee has said that they only use on field performance, and nothing else, to determine who gets in.

 

The chargers were 44-18 from 2006-2009, the first 4 years of Rivers starting, with their receivers being Antonio Gates (TE), Vincent Jackson, Keenan McCardell (aging at this point), Chris Chambers (aging but still decent), Malcolm Floyd

Tomlinson's backups were Sproles and Turner.

They were pretty stacked on offense.

This is an educated comment.

 

I'm not trying to knock LT, and I fully believe he was a first ballot HoF, which if I implied or stated otherwise was not what I meant.

 

I omitted the seasons played just because I did, I wasn't really paying much attention to those, having said that, yes Tomlinson did play less seasons than TO, and TO missed most of a season mid career due to an injury. All in all he played about 50 less games than TO, so yeah, he an omission I should have included (I was working it all out on my phone earlier while waiting for my car to get serviced)

Learning from HoF players is definitely big, and I believe TO benefited from that greatly, so you are correct there.

I never said TO was on trash teams, but you did make a notion that Tomlinson was on pretty crappy teams most of his career, which was just not true, but early on he did produce great numbers, but he also had great receivers and a pretty solid QB in Brees, with Gates, David Boston (not terrible), and a couple of other solid receivers in there as well.

He was on a pretty stacked offense his entire career in SD, although he was one of the things stacking it to be sure.

 

I initially wasn't comparing TO to players of other positions, I was merely saying that he was an all time great at his position, top #3-5, and should have been first ballot.

Somebody asked who was inducted in 2016 and 2017 who TO was more deserving than, and I was stating the players who were inducted those years.

I would say him and LT are on par with each other after a little more scrutiny about it, in terms of relation to their peers at their positions, so we can call him a wash.

Jason Taylor, Marvin Harisson are two I can say he should have been over without a doubt, plus the others I listed.

I'll give you LT as an equal in relation to his peers.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 6/8/2018 at 10:49 AM, JackKemp said:

I'm thinking you all need to read the selection process. Who else was eligible the last couple of years? Why is TO better than some of the other position players that were eligible the last few years? Usually first ballot electees are usually considered the best of all time type of players. TO is really a best of all time type of player that you think of in the same breath as a Dick Butkus, Johnny Unitas, Peyton Manning, or from other sports Chipper Jones, Hank Aaron, Sandy Kofax and the like? If I'm a homer then I'm a proud one.

 

http://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/selection-process-faq/

 

....it is also a personality contest with the voting writers who remain anonymous voting from underneath their desks.....if you're not a media darling, punishment ensues......any idea why Thurmal had to wait?.......mediocre?...he sucks?........not initially worthy?....

[SouthNYfan]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The criteria says nothing about "just going by onfield performance". It says contribution as a player. You are still a player in the locker room, in meetings and on the practice field. 

 

I don't disagree with you there Gunner, but contributions as a player are mostly about on field performance.

In the words of the immortal Allen Iverson "we're talkin about practice...we aint talking about the game!"

TO showed up in the games.

I never saw him dogging it, not showing up, anything.

The guy played hard, but was a huge jagoff, and yes, that could affect the locker room, no doubt about it, but in the end, he performed.

[Rochesterfan]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The criteria says nothing about "just going by onfield performance". It says contribution as a player. You are still a player in the locker room, in meetings and on the practice field. 

 

Agreed - I have heard the media guys talk while the Bills were getting inducted and it covered more than just the on the field stuff.  I do not remember ever hearing about things away from the game being talked about, but things like player interactions, media interactions, along with the playmaking.

 

My guess is that individual voters take each thing into consideration and some parts weigh more heavily on some voters than others.  May not be totally fair, but the voters are human and if you treat them like dirt - that colors their opinion long term.

8 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I don't disagree with you there Gunner, but contributions as a player are mostly about on field performance.

In the words of the immortal Allen Iverson "we're talkin about practice...we aint talking about the game!"

TO showed up in the games.

I never saw him dogging it, not showing up, anything.

The guy played hard, but was a huge jagoff, and yes, that could affect the locker room, no doubt about it, but in the end, he performed.

 

He was also suspended by multiple teams for conduct detrimental to the team.  He missed over 1/2 a season due to team initiated suspensions because of that attitude.

 

That has to say something to these guys that are making a decision - a team like Philadelphia decide after 2 years into a five year deal (with half of one of those seasons spent on the suspended list due to comments and fighting team leaders) that the team was better off without him.

 

All of those things need to and should be taken into account.