Shaw66 Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, row_33 said: Tyrod never ever said the wrong thing, much to his credit, he went through a lot and kept clam. it was just all the pain he caused having to watch him play. i guess it was better to not watch and cherry pick and manipulate stats and feel he was a great QB.... I hope you're not talking about me. I never cherry picked stats. I'm a passer rating guy. I said after his first year in Buffalo that if he had a passer rating in the top 10 every season, like he did his first seaon, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He wasn't close the next two seasons, and now he's gone. May or may not have been his fault, but that's unimportant. He wasn't getting the job done.
BringBackOrton Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: That's true. He admitted that the people who made the decision didn't agree with him. He just doesn't share their opinion, nor, apparently, yours. He's entitled to his opinion, as are you. Everyone has a right to be wrong.
reddogblitz Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 32 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said: As far as it taking 2 what about all the guys that didn't produce with teams until they had Brady as their qb. who was throwing them the football before they got there?
Zebrastripes Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 1 minute ago, reddogblitz said: who was throwing them the football before they got there? That's my point. Sub par qb play leads to sub par wr play. A good qb can make a wr look better than they are. I know there are some exceptions to this but as a norm a good qb can make a wr perform much better.
GunnerBill Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Commonsense said: Keenum was decent, he has some weapons in Denver, that is my pick of the year for win totals. I have them closer 10 than I do 7. Keenum offers more presnap than Taylor and played better than most folks give him credit for. I agree. I was advocating for signing him last offseason. I thought he played better than the numbers showed in LA the year before too.
Teddy KGB Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 4 hours ago, stuvian said: I also still think he is more talented than he has shown us so far. Yea he’s just playing possum Year 12 is when those talents will soar
Bing Bong Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 14 hours ago, Zebrastripes said: Two games with under 100 passing yards and 6 more with under 200 really isn't doing enough to stay on a NFL team. 14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Compared to McCarron Taylor is probably objectively correct, and IMO that belief is probably one of the main reasons he was shipped out. If Taylor were benched for a rookie who then struggled, Taylor might have been outspoken about it and even brought up the race card as he did last fall, which would have been divisive to the team. I think in the Bills opinion, McCarron is much more likely to be a "good soldier" about any coaching decisions the team makes. Regarding that playoff game, one might wish to consider that Bortles was 34-155 with 75 yd net passing. "But Bortles sucks too !" you might say, except that he sucked to the tune of hanging up 378 yds on the Steelers and 374 on the Pats in subsequent games. My point is JUST MAYBE the weather conditions in Jax had something to do with the passing performance on both sides in that game. Tyrod was alright on a team with a bad quarterback situation and little help other than cogs and shady He wasn't good enough consistently either.
Gugny Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 15 hours ago, THE SLAMMER said: Tyrod Taylor: I still feel that I’d done more than enough to stay Posted by Charean Williams on June 1, 2018, 9:06 PM EDT AP Tyrod Taylor felt he did “more than enough to stay” in Buffalo, but Bills coach Sean McDermott made a decision to move on. Taylor now is the starter in Cleveland for however long he is the starter in Cleveland, and AJ McCarron and Josh Allen have arrived in Buffalo. Vic Carucci of the Buffalo News asked Taylor when he realized he wasn’t McDermott’s guy. “Whether I was or whether I wasn’t, I’m not there anymore,” Taylor said. “That’s his decision moving forward. I still feel that I’d done more than enough to stay where I was. But at the end of the day, they made a decision to move forward, and that’s their decision.” Taylor said McDermott and General Manager Brandon Beane kept him informed of trade talks before the Bills sent him to the Browns on March 9. He said the phone conversation informing him of the trade “wasn’t a bad one.” “There was actually a positive energy on both sides,” Taylor said. Taylor has moved on like the Bills have moved on, ready to try to do in Cleveland what he did in Buffalo in helping end the Bills’ long playoff drought. “I’m excited, happy with the place that I’m at now and the team that I’m playing for, and I’m excited about the opportunity,” he said. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/01/tyrod-taylor-i-still-feel-that-id-done-more-than-enough-to-stay/ Very classy and professional comments. I wish him well in his future endeavors. I'm just glad those endeavors won't take place in New York State. 1
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 14 minutes ago, Gugny said: Very classy and professional comments. I wish him well in his future endeavors. I'm just glad those endeavors won't take place in New York State. Yes...less of a tax bite on the poor fellow.
twoandfourteen Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm really tired of this argument. Per you, Drew Brees should have been thrown out of the league after 2003: 3 games under 100 passing yards and 4 more under 200 yds (an additional game that just squeaked over that benchmark 202), out of only 11 games started. Average of only 191 yds passing. Brees clearly wasn't doing enough to stay on an NFL team. Ship the bum out of town. Next year, pro bowl, "comeback player of the year". Two years later, moves to N'Orleans and the rest is history. I'm not arguing that the Bills should have kept Tyrod nor that he's Drew Brees, just that the criteria cited are (based on history) not good benchmarks for whether or not a guy is capable of quality QB play in the NFL. Football in 2017 is far different than it was in 2003. 300 yards passing in a game was still a bit of an accomplishment 15 years ago. Today, 300 yards in a game is pretty routine for even the most average of QBs. it's a passing league -- coincidentally, Brees' career took off just as the league rules started to evolve to favor the QBs and the passing game. Your point sounds good on the surface, but you and I both know that it's not really that applicable. (Also, even in that harder-to-pass era, Brees averaged more passing yards per game than our hero, TT.) (Even Kelly Holcomb was able to put up a couple 300yd games & a 400 yd game. You mean to tell me TT couldn't get there at least one time in regulation?) Edited June 3, 2018 by twoandfourteen
twoandfourteen Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Ah, ok, so now we're into what we see on the field when he throws or doesn't throw. I'm all on board with that as a metric. (in his 3rd year in the league, Brees was held to have regressed, as seen by the metric you cited - he had no games under 100 yds his previous year, his 1st as a starter) Brees was the guy I chose for precise reasons. Between his 2nd and 3rd years in the league (1st and 2nd years starting) he hit all the marks the OP cited as "doesn't belong on an NFL team". In fact, San Diego believed he probably couldn't play in the league, which is why they drafted a QB in the 1st after that season. It wasn't a case of "a few games here and there not raising the fans ire", it was a case of expecting him to progress, but seeing him regress and having a consistently BAD season, a 2108 yd season. In San Diego, Brees was NOT that 4000 yd passing QB. He averaged 205, 192, and 210 ypg (the 210 ypg was his "comeback player of the year" pro bowl season). I have no argument that we needed more from the QB position than Taylor was showing us and it was time to move on. My point is that people say all kinds of pretty silly stuff to justify it, stuff that's not bourne out by looking at the initial 3 years of starting for a number of now legendary QB. And it wouldn't shock me if under Haley, Taylor showed a jump - though I don't think Mayfield is going to sit politely on the bench behind him. That is going to be an "interesting" QB room. How dare people use passing yards to assess the performance of a QB? What's next -- using the number points each team scores to determine which one won the game? Let's go to the tape! Breakdown that video!
twoandfourteen Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 5 hours ago, swnybillsfan said: i think this is exactly right. he is a good qb, and a great guy. under the right circumstances, i think he could be a really good qb. but you would absolutely have to design a specific offense around his skillset. the bills decided they wanted to build around a more traditional passing game with a pocket passer and a different skillset, or at least a different set of physical, and possibly mental, tools. i was glad to see that the situation was handled well from the bills side, i thought taylor always handled himself with class. wish him success in cleveland and wherever he lands after that. It's called the "wishbone".
grb Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Zebrastripes said: Not gonna disagree with any of that. Problem is Tyrod had far greater issues then just his deep ball. Plus I am a firm believer in the idea that the qb makes the wr not the other way around. Just look at what Robert Woods did this year. Tyrod had both Woods and Watkins on his team just like Goff did and look at the difference in production from them two. You know, I understand why you say that. It's what everyone else around here is saying, so it has to be true, right? However, what happens when you actually look? We can't use 2016. Watkins spent half the season on injured reserve / half playing on a broken left foot (with Woods also injured about half the year as well) So let's compare 2015 Taylor, vs 2017 Goff : Sammy Watkins : 2015 : 60 recp, 1047 yds, 17.5 ypc, 9 tds Sammy Watkins : 2017 : 39 recp, 593 yds, 15.2 ypc, 8 tds Robert Woods : 2015 : 47 recp, 552 yds, 11.7 ypc, 3 tds Robert Woods : 2017 : 56 recp, 781 yds, 13.9 ypc, 5 tds So then we do the obvious, and compare Taylor vs Goff re W&W : W&W : 2015 : 107 recp, 1599 yds, 14.94 ypc, 12 tds W&W : 2017 : 95 recp, 1374 yds, 14.46 ypc, 13 tds Not the numbers you expected to see, amirite? Edited June 3, 2018 by grb
grb Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, Zebrastripes said: Two games with under 100 passing yards and 6 more with under 200 really isn't doing enough to stay on a NFL team. Is this a Taylor-specific rule, or does it apply to other players and positions? If so, let's look at a running back in the 2017 season : Panthers : 12 carries, 09 yards 0.75 ypa Broncos : 14 carries, 21 yards 1.50 ypa Jets : 12 carries, 25 yards 2.08 ypa Chiefs : 22 carries, 49 yards 2.23 ypa Dolphins : 20 carries, 50 yards 2.50 ypa Dolphins : 11 carries 10 yards 0.91 ypa Said running back got 27% of his season's yards in just two games, which is how he could amass the horror show above. Now : Before heads explode, let me be clear : I think LeSean McCoy is a national treasure, whose visage should be on Mt Rushmore. And there are so many caveats to this list : The worst games are the ones up-top, when the Bills still suffered the strongest effects of a dim-witted scheme change to the blocking. McCoy was out with an injury half the last Dolphin game, so take that into account. Plus, running backs need holes to run thru, which McCoy frequently did not have. So context is important in this case. Just like it doesn't hurt to consider a quarterback was playing with a bad offensive coordinator, spotty pass protection, a tight end who missed a quarter of the season (and could rarely practice otherwise), and one of the worst sets of receivers in the National Football League. Context !!! After all, a feature running back averaging 27.3 yards at 1.82 yards a carry over six games of a season might fail to meet your lofty standards. Edited June 3, 2018 by grb
Boca BIlls Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 Tyrod is as good as he is going to get, just like Fitz was as good as he was going to get. Some QBs just can't get past mediocre, nothing against them but it takes a special talent to get to the next level.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 4 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: Your point sounds good on the surface, but you and I both know that it's not really that applicable. How about if you speak for you, and I'll speak for me? While you're speaking for you, feel free to name those "most average of QBs" today who routinely throw >300 yds a game. You make it sound as though Drew Brees had a crap season in 2003 because "the game was different" and QB just struggled. That's horseradish. Let's pick a guy in 2003, Trent Green - I think most of us would call him a pretty "average QB" - who threw 5 300 yd games that season, in what would be the first of 3 -4000 yd seasons. In contrast, Drew Brees had poor stats in 2003 because he just struggled. He was a spread offense QB at Purdue and he had trouble adjusting to the pro game. I could go on, but I think I'll wait to see what you like to bring to the table in the way of research or facts. 4 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: (Also, even in that harder-to-pass era, Brees averaged more passing yards per game than our hero, TT.) Brees in 2003: 191.6 Taylor in 2017: 186.6 Wow, big difference. And again, speak for yourself - Taylor is not my hero, my point is simply that looking at a QB having a year with low yardage games, may or may not indicate that a QB doesn't belong in the NFL or a team should move on from him.
bills522 Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 I think the Browns are on track to rack up anywhere from 6-9 wins this year with that offense as is...it's solid, but Tyrod will have those games where he cannot hit water if he fell out of a boat, and that's not the ceiling the Bills FO were content with retaining. Now... that's still miles ahead of the worst football they've experienced in Cleveland over the past decade, so they have every right to feel optimistic about the future...but even THEIR front office sees Tyrod as a bridge QB until Mayfield's ready, which you gotta believe is next year, if not sooner. Did Tyrod conduct himself in a professional manner? Did he assume the leadership role, and give everything he had to offer to the team? Damn right he did, or at least it seemed that way to me... if that's considered 'enough to stay' then sure, he did absolutely enough to stay. But it seems really apparent a lot of the league knows at this point what Tyrod is, and what his ceiling is...he's a serviceable, productive (albeit middling) QB in the right scheme, and he'll lead you to average results with his athleticism until his body gives out, ..but he takes a lot of hits...he's tough, but nobody with his frame can withstand that kind of punishment forever. I think the best situation for both parties is what transpired - Tyrod gets another kick at the can at being an NFL starter with the confidence of a front office behind him, and the Bills get a fresh look at some QBs that better suit the scheme they wanna run with a much higher passer ceiling that can become attainable. No bad blood on either side, I hope - I wish him the absolute best and thank him for years of hard work and dedication, and conversely I'm excited to see where the Bills develop from here. ps - I think I'd still be more excited to see Rosen in there over Allen at this point but nobody really knows a damn thing 'til the real bullets start flying so screw it, go Bills either way 1
formerlyofCtown Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 Obviously not. 5 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: Football in 2017 is far different than it was in 2003. 300 yards passing in a game was still a bit of an accomplishment 15 years ago. Today, 300 yards in a game is pretty routine for even the most average of QBs. it's a passing league -- coincidentally, Brees' career took off just as the league rules started to evolve to favor the QBs and the passing game. Your point sounds good on the surface, but you and I both know that it's not really that applicable. (Also, even in that harder-to-pass era, Brees averaged more passing yards per game than our hero, TT.) (Even Kelly Holcomb was able to put up a couple 300yd games & a 400 yd game. You mean to tell me TT couldn't get there at least one time in regulation?) You don't need to be a 300 yard passer. You need to be clutch which he wasn't. 1
Zebrastripes Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 6 hours ago, grb said: You know, I understand why you say that. It's what everyone else around here is saying, so it has to be true, right? However, what happens when you actually look? We can't use 2016. Watkins spent half the season on injured reserve / half playing on a broken left foot (with Woods also injured about half the year as well) So let's compare 2015 Taylor, vs 2017 Goff : Sammy Watkins : 2015 : 60 recp, 1047 yds, 17.5 ypc, 9 tds Sammy Watkins : 2017 : 39 recp, 593 yds, 15.2 ypc, 8 tds Robert Woods : 2015 : 47 recp, 552 yds, 11.7 ypc, 3 tds Robert Woods : 2017 : 56 recp, 781 yds, 13.9 ypc, 5 tds So then we do the obvious, and compare Taylor vs Goff re W&W : W&W : 2015 : 107 recp, 1599 yds, 14.94 ypc, 12 tds W&W : 2017 : 95 recp, 1374 yds, 14.46 ypc, 13 tds Not the numbers you expected to see, amirite? I actually looked these up myself. The biggest problem with these numbers and comparing them directly with the Bills years is the fact that woods and Watkins were the 3rd and 4th leading receiver on the Rams. When they were on the Bills they were the first and second. 1 1
Big Gun Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, grb said: You know, I understand why you say that. It's what everyone else around here is saying, so it has to be true, right? However, what happens when you actually look? We can't use 2016. Watkins spent half the season on injured reserve / half playing on a broken left foot (with Woods also injured about half the year as well) So let's compare 2015 Taylor, vs 2017 Goff : Sammy Watkins : 2015 : 60 recp, 1047 yds, 17.5 ypc, 9 tds Sammy Watkins : 2017 : 39 recp, 593 yds, 15.2 ypc, 8 tds Robert Woods : 2015 : 47 recp, 552 yds, 11.7 ypc, 3 tds Robert Woods : 2017 : 56 recp, 781 yds, 13.9 ypc, 5 tds So then we do the obvious, and compare Taylor vs Goff re W&W : W&W : 2015 : 107 recp, 1599 yds, 14.94 ypc, 12 tds W&W : 2017 : 95 recp, 1374 yds, 14.46 ypc, 13 tds Not the numbers you expected to see, amirite? Remember when EJ started 2 games in 2015 RW had 13/131 yards 1 TD SW had 4/48 yards 1 TD So their corrected numbers with Tyrod in 2015 are RW had 34/421 yards 2 TD SW had 56/999 yards 8 TD So no you are not right! Edited June 3, 2018 by PeterGriffin
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