Tyrod Taylor: I still feel that I’d done more than enough to stay

[BuffaloHokie13]

5 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

The Jets were rushing 8, no Oline could stop them. The reasons defenses don’t rush 8 is because pro QBs can make a quick throw to offset the lack of coverage. Tyrod is not able to make a quick read under pressure

Is that why he was 29-40 for 285 yards and 2 TDs, and another TD on the ground?

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with that, except that I do think he had a real slump in the middle of 2017 before his benching for 3 or 4 games. That was his worst run as an NFL starter.  Take those 3 or 4 games out and he was reasonably 'on the level' for 3 years.... some bad games, some good games, some middling games but all pretty close to the median.  

Gunner, I've been a big Taylor supporter for years, but I think you're just flat out wrong with this.   What you said is classic cherry picking of the data.   The only meaningful way to look at players' careers is by looking at season stats.   For his three seasons as a starter in Buffalo, Taylor got progressively worse.   

 

The other way you could prove that Taylor's performance for three years has been "reasonably on the level" would be to "take those 3 or 4 games" when Taylor was at his best in 2015.   What would have?  An absolute, dead-on, mediocre journey man.  

 

On balance, Taylor did not perform well enough.   He had two seasons as a starter, a chance to grow.  Then he had a year with a new head coach to prove he could be the guy to lead a winner, and he didn't prove anything.   

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yep. It was all Tyrods fault.

I'd agree with that. Lack of quality pass catchers played a part, IMO.

 

Our receiving options were poor, no doubt. Tyrod isn't, and was never, great at seeing the whole field and we know he didn't like throwing into coverage so the more guys you have who can get separation the better. 

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Gunner, I've been a big Taylor supporter for years, but I think you're just flat out wrong with this.   What you said is classic cherry picking of the data.   The only meaningful way to look at players' careers is by looking at season stats.   For his three seasons as a starter in Buffalo, Taylor got progressively worse.   

 

The other way you could prove that Taylor's performance for three years has been "reasonably on the level" would be to "take those 3 or 4 games" when Taylor was at his best in 2015.   What would have?  An absolute, dead-on, mediocre journey man.  

 

On balance, Taylor did not perform well enough.   He had two seasons as a starter, a chance to grow.  Then he had a year with a new head coach to prove he could be the guy to lead a winner, and he didn't prove anything.   

 

I was not a big Taylor supporter and I agree he is a middling journey man. I think his lows were lower in 2017 but I was out on him being the answer for the Bills halfway through 2016.  I don't think his performance did fluctuate drastically year to year. 

[Stank_Nasty]

36 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

The Jets were rushing 8, no Oline could stop them. The reasons defenses don’t rush 8 is because pro QBs can make a quick throw to offset the lack of coverage. Tyrod is not able to make a quick read under pressure

this is complete BS.... The jets were constantly collapsing the pocket around taylor with just 4 and 5 guys. it was one of the worst displays of pass blocking in my recent memory.

 

 

….. and now this is the part where somebody mistakes me stating that fact as me absolutely loving tyrod and wishing he was still here...… which isn't the case btw. in case you're wondering.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

this is complete BS.... The jets were constantly collapsing the pocket around taylor with just 4 and 5 guys. it was one of the worst displays of pass blocking in my recent memory.

 

 

I agree totally.  Yes, they blitzed a lot. But they were sending 5 not 8 and the Bills were incapable of playing "hat for a hat" football.  They just bullied us up front. 

[Shaw66]

Also, for those of you who think Taylor was terrible in the Jets game in New York, I think you're wrong.   First, he threw for 280 yards, 2 TDs and no INTs, with a passer rating of 108.    Then you'll say it was in garbage time.   However, if you go through the play-by-play and tally the stats as you go, you will see that he performed more or less the same throughout the last three quarters.  In general, in the beginning of the game, his pass attempts were on third and long after the Jets had stuffed running plays on first and second down.  He had the Bills driving for the score to lead at halftime when Matthews fumbled.  When the Bills actually let him pass on first down in the third quarter, he stated another drive and then O'Leary fumbled.  

 

You can fault Taylor for his fumble, but that's about it.  He had a little over 100 yards on his last two TD drives, but that was when many of his passing attempts occurred, too.   

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Our receiving options were poor, no doubt. Tyrod isn't, and was never, great at seeing the whole field and we know he didn't like throwing into coverage so the more guys you have who can get separation the better. 

 

I was not a big Taylor supporter and I agree he is a middling journey man. I think his lows were lower in 2017 but I was out on him being the answer for the Bills halfway through 2016.  I don't think his performance did fluctuate drastically year to year. 

I didn't give up on him until last year.   I think it takes most QBs three years or more on the field to develop the skills they need, so 2016 bothered me but didn't cause me to give up.  2017 did.  

[Stank_Nasty]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree totally.  Yes, they blitzed a lot. But they were sending 5 not 8 and the Bills were incapable of playing "hat for a hat" football.  They just bullied us up front. 

right. I distinctly remember a play early in that game where they sent 5 on our 5. the pocket literally enclosed around taylor in what looked like a freaking star formation and I remember thinking.... "have I ever seen a full pocket collapse around a guy that quick when it was a hat on a hat?" we aren't talking just one or 2 lineman getting pushed back. they literally backed our whole line into taylor and swallowed him up....

 

and then it kept happening. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[Mark80]

Saw Tyrod sitting court side with Shady last night on TV during the Cavs / Warriors game.  Great person, just not a great QB unfortunately. 

[Big Gun]

59 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Is that why he was 29-40 for 285 yards and 2 TDs, and another TD on the ground?

Down 24-7 at the start of the 4th Q and the Jest playing soft is when Tyrod did his best work, you expected anything different!

 

14/19 122 yds 1 TD

 

3 sacks and a lost fumble that lead directly to Jets TD 1 play later 

 

9 yards rushing and 1 TD

 

All in 4th Q losing against a team 24-7 then 31-7 trying to run out the clock.

 

Where was Tyrod in the first 3 quarters?

[uticaclub]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Is that why he was 29-40 for 285 yards and 2 TDs, and another TD on the ground?

All in garbage time when the Jets stopped blitzing and played soft prevent. Stats are for losers

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Is that why he was 29-40 for 285 yards and 2 TDs, and another TD on the ground?

Welcome to garbage time.  Where Tyrod made his bones.

[Stank_Nasty]

44 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said:

Down 24-7 at the start of the 4th Q and the Jest playing soft is when Tyrod did his best work, you expected anything different!

 

14/19 122 yds 1 TD

 

3 sacks and a lost fumble that lead directly to Jets TD 1 play later 

 

9 yards rushing and 1 TD

 

All in 4th Q losing against a team 24-7 then 31-7 trying to run out the clock.

 

Where was Tyrod in the first 3 quarters?

on the ground. 

 

Listen, i'm not one bit upset about moving on from taylor. i dont wish for him back.... but anyone that's not willing to acknowledge how putrid that O-line was in that game basically shows exactly what sort of agenda they have going on right now.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[ehfeuh57]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Getting sacked and mauled as the offensive line couldn't block anyone.... I think we went over this. 

scott law please take a seat

 

there are no more excuses for Tyrod

 

you are very bad at evaluating talent

[BuffaloHokie13]

56 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said:

Down 24-7 at the start of the 4th Q and the Jest playing soft is when Tyrod did his best work, you expected anything different!

 

14/19 122 yds 1 TD

 

3 sacks and a lost fumble that lead directly to Jets TD 1 play later 

 

9 yards rushing and 1 TD

 

All in 4th Q losing against a team 24-7 then 31-7 trying to run out the clock.

 

Where was Tyrod in the first 3 quarters?

 

54 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

All in garbage time when the Jets stopped blitzing and played soft prevent. Stats are for losers

 

51 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Welcome to garbage time.  Where Tyrod made his bones.

Did any of you actually watch the game? There was no semblance of a run game (because the OL got dominated), but Rico refused to let it go.

 

With 3 minutes left in the first half Tyrod had thrown only 10 passes (7/10 for 69 yards and 1 TD). That's inexcusable when your RBs have combined for 38 yards in that same time span. In the final 3 minutes of the half he was 4/5 for 46, and Matthews fumbled on the Jets 31 yard line with a minute left. So first half he was 11/15 for 115 and 1 TD and the score was 7-10. (7.67 YPA, 117.4 Passer Rating)

 

2nd half started with 2 runs for 1 net yard and then an incompletion. Next drive starts with a 9 yard completion before McCoy loses 5 yards on a run. After that we're pinned deep and we run for 0, false start to put us inside our own 5, incomplete, and then a scramble just to get us out of our end zone. Next drive (now 7-24) Tyrod starts 3/3 for 39 yards before O'Leary fumbles around the Jets 30 yard line. I'll call it there. That's the drive they needed to keep the game within 10 points with a quarter to go.

 

At that point, he was 12/19 for 151 and a TD. That's good for 7.95 YPA and a 105.4 Passer Rating. If you're surprised that his pass attempts went up when we got further behind in the score then I'm not sure what to say. But with the increased workload in the 4th his YPA dropped some as expected with increased attempts and his passer rating went up slightly. He also finished as the teams leading rusher on just 6 carries.

 

Also, since none of you seemed to pick up on it, the whole point of my post was directed at the false notion that "Tyrod is not able to make a quick read under pressure". If he was truly not capable of such things, he wouldn't have been 12/19 for 151 and a TD. If he wasn't capable of making a read under pressure he may have been 6/14 for 66 yards, 0 TDs and 5 INTs.

Edited June 7, 2018 by BuffaloHokie13

[Stank_Nasty]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

 

 

Did any of you actually watch the game? There was no semblance of a run game (because the OL got dominated), but Rico refused to let it go.

 

With 3 minutes left in the first half Tyrod had thrown only 10 passes (7/10 for 69 yards and 1 TD). That's inexcusable when your RBs have combined for 38 yards in that same time span. In the final 3 minutes of the half he was 4/5 for 46, and Matthews fumbled on the Jets 31 yard line with a minute left. So first half he was 11/15 for 115 and 1 TD and the score was 7-10. (7.67 YPA, 117.4 Passer Rating)

 

2nd half started with 2 runs for 1 net yard and then an incompletion. Next drive starts with a 9 yard completion before McCoy loses 5 yards on a run. After that we're pinned deep and we run for 0, false start to put us inside our own 5, incomplete, and then a scramble just to get us out of our end zone. Next drive (now 7-24) Tyrod starts 3/3 for 39 yards before O'Leary fumbles around the Jets 30 yard line. I'll call it there. That's the drive they needed to keep the game within 10 points with a quarter to go.

 

At that point, he was 12/19 for 151 and a TD. That's good for 7.95 YPA and a 105.4 Passer Rating. If you're surprised that his pass attempts went up when we got further behind in the score then I'm not sure what to say. But with the increased workload in the 4th his YPA dropped some as expected with increased attempts and his passer rating went up slightly. He also finished as the teams leading rusher on just 6 carries.

 

Also, since none of you seemed to pick up on it, the whole point of my post was directed at the false notion that "Tyrod is not able to make a quick read under pressure". If he was truly not capable of such things, he wouldn't have been 12/19 for 151 and a TD. If he wasn't capable of making a read under pressure he may have been 6/14 for 66 yards, 0 TDs and 5 INTs.

very nice post here but you and I both know its wasted on the guys you are quoting.

[BringBackOrton]

15 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

 

 

Did any of you actually watch the game? There was no semblance of a run game (because the OL got dominated), but Rico refused to let it go.

 

With 3 minutes left in the first half Tyrod had thrown only 10 passes (7/10 for 69 yards and 1 TD). That's inexcusable when your RBs have combined for 38 yards in that same time span. In the final 3 minutes of the half he was 4/5 for 46, and Matthews fumbled on the Jets 31 yard line with a minute left. So first half he was 11/15 for 115 and 1 TD and the score was 7-10. (7.67 YPA, 117.4 Passer Rating)

 

2nd half started with 2 runs for 1 net yard and then an incompletion. Next drive starts with a 9 yard completion before McCoy loses 5 yards on a run. After that we're pinned deep and we run for 0, false start to put us inside our own 5, incomplete, and then a scramble just to get us out of our end zone. Next drive (now 7-24) Tyrod starts 3/3 for 39 yards before O'Leary fumbles around the Jets 30 yard line. I'll call it there. That's the drive they needed to keep the game within 10 points with a quarter to go.

 

At that point, he was 12/19 for 151 and a TD. That's good for 7.95 YPA and a 105.4 Passer Rating. If you're surprised that his pass attempts went up when we got further behind in the score then I'm not sure what to say. But with the increased workload in the 4th his YPA dropped some as expected with increased attempts and his passer rating went up slightly. He also finished as the teams leading rusher on just 6 carries.

 

Also, since none of you seemed to pick up on it, the whole point of my post was directed at the false notion that "Tyrod is not able to make a quick read under pressure". If he was truly not capable of such things, he wouldn't have been 12/19 for 151 and a TD. If he wasn't capable of making a read under pressure he may have been 6/14 for 66 yards, 0 TDs and 5 INTs.

So is gaining >50% of your yards and > 66% of your TD's down 17, then down 24,  then down 27 in the 4th Q no longer garbage time?

 

Tyrod's agent might have been the only person happy the Bills cut the lead to 20 with 4 minutes to go.  

Edited June 7, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[grb]

53 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said:

Down 24-7 at the start of the 4th Q and the Jest playing soft is when Tyrod did his best work, you expected anything different!

 

14/19 122 yds 1 TD

 

3 sacks and a lost fumble that lead directly to Jets TD 1 play later 

 

9 yards rushing and 1 TD

 

All in 4th Q losing against a team 24-7 then 31-7 trying to run out the clock.

 

Where was Tyrod in the first 3 quarters?

 

The myth that Taylor did nothing in the Thursday Jet's game until "garbage time" is one of those zombie lies that just won't die.

 

Here's what he did in the First Half :  15/11  76.6%   115 yds  7.7 ypa  1 td   0 ints

 

This was with a Jets' pass rush in Taylor's face the moment he set to throw. This was with repeated third&longs caused by penalties, a porous o-line, and nonexistent ground game. McCoy ran for 25 yards on 12 carries. Tolbert added another three yards for his contribution. Taylor led the Bills in rushing with 35 yards.

 

Want to dig into the substance of your error?  Attached is a series by series analysis of the game. Why don't you give it a shot and kill the zombie once and for all......

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/11/3/16602430/analysis-tyrod-taylor-was-not-the-problem-in-thursdays-buffalo-bills-loss-to-new-york-jets

[Heitz]

Tyrod Taylor: I still feel that I’d done more than enough to stay

 

Buffalo Bills:  We don't

 

/thread

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

So is gaining >50% of your yards and > 66% of your TD's down 17, then down 24,  then down 27 in the 4th Q no longer garbage time?

 

Tyrod's agent might have been the only person happy the Bills cut the lead to 20 with 4 minutes to go.  

Again, I didn't bring up garbage time and in my post I removed it with a fairly thorough breakdown. Can you expand on how someone incapable of making reads under pressure goes 12/19 for 151 yards, 1 TD and no INTs while under constant pressure?

Edited June 7, 2018 by BuffaloHokie13

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Again, I didn't bring up garbage time and in my post I removed it with a fairly thorough breakdown. Can you expand on how someone incapable of making reads under pressure goes 12/19 for 151 yards, 1 TD and no INTs while under constant pressure?

No, you just originally posted:

2 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Is that why he was 29-40 for 285 yards and 2 TDs, and another TD on the ground?

So you changed the story.

 

Scoring 1 TD when the game is still a game, and then scoring 2 TD's in the final 4 minutes down 27 points is the DEFINITION of garbage time.

 

But that's okay. His slight bump in passer rating to those who pore over the box score didn't save him as a Bill.  And maybe Cleveland didn't watch the game and that's why they offered a third.  Beane doing Beane things.

Edited June 7, 2018 by BringBackOrton