OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: In 2054, now for a look back at Tyrod Taylor: Was he good enough? MY COLUMN ...LMAO...I'll be in "Hell's Kitchen" and the reception sucks as well as the LCD's NOT being heat resistant...carrier pigeon??......
reddogblitz Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 43 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: In 2054, now for a look back at Tyrod Taylor: Was he good enough? MY COLUMN We still talk about Flutie and Bledsoe, so why not?
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: We still talk about Flutie and Bledsoe, so why not? Neither of them had a QBR under 45 in 5 games out of 9. 1
reddogblitz Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 12 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Neither of them had a QBR under 45 in 5 games out of 9. And Flutie is the only other one of the two that also led us to the playoffs,
transplantbillsfan Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said: You jumped in the conversation with "weapons mattering" between Jameis and Tyrod. I countered with "talent mattering" between Jameis and Tyrod. It's okay. The TT talk is almost all over. A handful of games in CLE and that'll be curtains. Here I'll spell it out for you: You argued with Hokie about rankings of QBs and him having Tyrod >>> Jameis You argued "trends matter" and made a simplistic claim that "Tyrod sank down the list while Jameis stayed right around 18 or 19" and then smugly said "thanks" as if your point was proven. It wasn't. In 2015 Jameis was throwing to Mike Evans, Vincent Jackson, & Austin Sefarian-jenkins while Taylor was throwing to Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, & Charles Clay. Relatively comparable weapons, though I don't think many would argue Taylor's weapons were better. Still, Taylor was better. We progress to 2017 where Jameis is throwing to Mike Evans, Deshaun Jackson, & OJ Howard while Taylor's throwing to Zay Jones, Deonte Thompson, & Charles Clay. I dare you to try typing that those weapons are even remotely comparable with a straight face. Yet, Taylor and Winston were in the same ball park comparatively. If you care about trends, note the trend of who these guys were throwing to. Winston always had at least one pro bowl WR. Taylor often threw to scrubs. The reason I brought Mayfield up had nothing to do with saying Taylor is more talented than him. It's that the 2 will presumably have the same weapons and so, at that point, your statement of comparison can be put to the test. Understand?
BringBackOrton Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Here I'll spell it out for you: You argued with Hokie about rankings of QBs and him having Tyrod >>> Jameis You argued "trends matter" and made a simplistic claim that "Tyrod sank down the list while Jameis stayed right around 18 or 19" and then smugly said "thanks" as if your point was proven. It wasn't. In 2015 Jameis was throwing to Mike Evans, Vincent Jackson, & Austin Sefarian-jenkins while Taylor was throwing to Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, & Charles Clay. Relatively comparable weapons, though I don't think many would argue Taylor's weapons were better. Still, Taylor was better. We progress to 2017 where Jameis is throwing to Mike Evans, Deshaun Jackson, & OJ Howard while Taylor's throwing to Zay Jones, Deonte Thompson, & Charles Clay. I dare you to try typing that those weapons are even remotely comparable with a straight face. Yet, Taylor and Winston were in the same ball park comparatively. If you care about trends, note the trend of who these guys were throwing to. Winston always had at least one pro bowl WR. Taylor often threw to scrubs. The reason I brought Mayfield up had nothing to do with saying Taylor is more talented than him. It's that the 2 will presumably have the same weapons and so, at that point, your statement of comparison can be put to the test. Understand? I thanked Hokie for his stats sincerely, but nice assumption. You know what they say about assumptions. I REALLY don't care to argue this nonsense anymore. Winston was not traded for a 3rd rounder by a team this offseason. Winston did not join a team with a #1 overall selection to replace him this offseason. It's okay, dude. Edited June 6, 2018 by BringBackOrton
ColoradoBills Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 Tyrod Taylor has the largest cap hit of all Cleveland Brown players. I believe Baker Mayfield will start games in 2018 but TT will start the season. IMO
BuffaloHokie13 Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Neither of them had a QBR under 45 in 5 games out of 9. Neither of them played when QBR was a stat 1
transplantbillsfan Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: I thanked Hokie for his stats sincerely, but nice assumption. You know what they say about assumptions. I REALLY don't care to argue this nonsense anymore. Winston was not traded for a 3rd rounder by a team this offseason. Winston did not join a team with a #1 overall selection to replace him this offseason. It's okay, dude. Wow... this must be the weenie way of conceding that you were mistaken because you sure have been running in circles right before your mad dash to the hills. If anyone made an assumption, alas, it was you. But this was fun Edited June 7, 2018 by transplantbillsfan
BringBackOrton Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 25 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Wow... this must be the weenie way of conceding that you were mistaken because you sure have been running in circles right before your mad dash to the hills. If anyone made an assumption, alas, it was you. But this was fun What could I have been mistaken about? Besides you jumping in making an unclear point. 1
twoandfourteen Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 18 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: The thread itself and the fact that the thread exists is 15 pages deep on a Bills message board with posters who seem to only really be able to post about a QB who hasn't been on our team now for almost 3 full months. There's a poster in here (I think everyone can figure him out pretty easily) who I almost never see on this message board. He has posted literally one time about the 2018 and beyond Buffalo Bills team in his 50 posts. The vaaaaaaaassssttt majority of this guy's posts are about Tyrod Taylor. (That took very little effort, before you make some kinda dumb claim about wasting time doing that) I don't hang out in the past... especially brooding over it like an Eeyore. It's why I don't think it's much use talking about Stevie Johnson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Aaron Schobel, Trent Edwards, Freddie Jackson, Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Andy Levitre, Marquise Goodwin, Marshawn Lynch, etc. So, to answer your question, I think this thread and some of the things people are STILL saying in it is absolutely ridiculous, so I match that ridiculousness and raise it with some animation Yeah, that guy sucks. 1
billsfan89 Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 21 hours ago, MURPHD6 said: Absolutely. Mayfield is coming from a spread based system, so rushing him onto the field is not advisable ( the Browns need to start winning soon). And if Tyrod plays well enough, Cleveland can always deal him during the offseason. It might not happen, but its not as far beyond the realm of possibility as the Tyrod sucks crowd thinks. And with regard to your ranking, I think he was a top 15 QB in 2015 and 2016, and I dont think the argument is hard to make. He slipped this year, that is true, but if he stays healthy he wil have better recievers to throw to next year. I don't think that Tyrod Slipped at all, I think he stayed the same but the talent level around him dipped from 2015 to 2016 (Sammy not being healthy) and then the talent level fell again from 2016 to 2017 (Woods leaving, Matthews hurt, and Benjamin getting hurt.) I also think that the O-line got a little worse each season esp with Glenn's major injury. I think Tyrod settles in around the 18th to 22nd best QB in the NFL. That's not fantastic but you certainly can do a lot worse. But when you have a lower mid-level QB like Tyrod his level of play is going to heavily depend on the talent level around him. Tyrod isn't going to make players around him better but he is good enough to allow the players around him to reach their level of talent. Bad QB's handicap the rest of their offense, good and great QB's make their supporting casts better, and OK QB's allow the talent to play to their level. You can win with a QB like Tyrod but it is super hard to consistently put that level of offensive talent around him while still investing enough in your defense.
reddogblitz Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 44 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: it is super hard to consistently put that level of offensive talent around him while still investing enough in your defense. True. But I wonder about that assumption as well. Is it harder to put that level of offensive talent around him, or to find a franchise QB?
HOUSE Posted June 7, 2018 Author Posted June 7, 2018 Frustrating time in Buffalo. Time to move on, glad we did 1
GunnerBill Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 8 hours ago, billsfan89 said: I don't think that Tyrod Slipped at all, I think he stayed the same but the talent level around him dipped from 2015 to 2016 (Sammy not being healthy) and then the talent level fell again from 2016 to 2017 (Woods leaving, Matthews hurt, and Benjamin getting hurt.) I also think that the O-line got a little worse each season esp with Glenn's major injury. I think Tyrod settles in around the 18th to 22nd best QB in the NFL. That's not fantastic but you certainly can do a lot worse. But when you have a lower mid-level QB like Tyrod his level of play is going to heavily depend on the talent level around him. Tyrod isn't going to make players around him better but he is good enough to allow the players around him to reach their level of talent. Bad QB's handicap the rest of their offense, good and great QB's make their supporting casts better, and OK QB's allow the talent to play to their level. You can win with a QB like Tyrod but it is super hard to consistently put that level of offensive talent around him while still investing enough in your defense. I agree with that, except that I do think he had a real slump in the middle of 2017 before his benching for 3 or 4 games. That was his worst run as an NFL starter. Take those 3 or 4 games out and he was reasonably 'on the level' for 3 years.... some bad games, some good games, some middling games but all pretty close to the median.
ALF Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 Taylor might be viable with a solid OL , running game and good D. That outside zone blocking in the 1st half of the season was a disaster. It was still good for the Bills and him to move on. I think Taylor will be a ok backup with the right team.
BringBackOrton Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 9 hours ago, reddogblitz said: True. But I wonder about that assumption as well. Is it harder to put that level of offensive talent around him, or to find a franchise QB? Putting that level of offensive talent around him is impossible long term. Free agency would gut your talent.
GunnerBill Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, ScottLaw said: He got a lot of flack for the Jets game on Thursday night which made little sense to me. The offensive line got absolutely manhandled and yet he still managed to get the team out of several long down situations despite that line play, no running game and terrible play calling. The Saints game he was awful. I don't really put the New York game on him (although he wasn't good). I don't put it on playcalling either. We got manhandled in the trenches on both sides of the ball and call me old fashioned but I still believe if you lose on both lines you lose a football game and we lost badly on both lines. There is no play you can call when your center can't make a single block and your left tackle is on his back right off the snap. I'd slightly confused the order of the games in my head a little too. In my mind Cincy, New York and the Saints were back to back. But the Tampa game and the Oakland game were sandwiched there in between. So it wasn't quite as poor of a run.... but I think his lows in 2017 were lower than his lows in 2015 and 2016 put it that way. 1
FappyTheClown Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) It just smells that way. Edited June 7, 2018 by FappyTheClown
uticaclub Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, ScottLaw said: He got a lot of flack for the Jets game on Thursday night which made little sense to me. The offensive line got absolutely manhandled and yet he still managed to get the team out of several long down situations despite that line play, no running game and terrible play calling. The Saints game he was awful. The Jets were rushing 8, no Oline could stop them. The reasons defenses don’t rush 8 is because pro QBs can make a quick throw to offset the lack of coverage. Tyrod is not able to make a quick read under pressure Edited June 7, 2018 by uticaclub 1 1
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