Tyrod Taylor: I still feel that I’d done more than enough to stay

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Compared to McCarron Taylor is probably objectively correct, and IMO that belief is probably one of the main reasons he was shipped out.  If Taylor were benched for a rookie who then struggled, Taylor might have been outspoken about it and even brought up the race card as he did last fall, which would have been divisive to the team.  I think in the Bills opinion, McCarron is much more likely to be a "good soldier" about any coaching decisions the team makes.

 

Regarding that playoff game, one might wish to consider that Bortles was 34-155 with 75 yd net passing.  "But Bortles sucks too !" you might say, except that he sucked to the tune of hanging up 378 yds on the Steelers and 374 on the Pats in subsequent games.  My point is JUST MAYBE the weather conditions in Jax had something to do with the passing performance on both sides in that game.

Taylor was a veteran qb where there was no progression to his game. What you saw is what you get. His limitations were such that he was not going to grow out of them. Defenses were adapting to his limitations and forcing him to do things that he wasn't very accomplished at. When you have a qb that isn't very accurate and can't go through progressions what options does your OC have at his disposal to work around those limitations? You don't think those same limitations will be exhibited in Cleveland? 

 

Is McCarron a better short term option to Taylor? I would say yes because I believe he can run a pro style offense, something the veteran running couldn't could do. Taylor was fortunate that for the most part he didn't have much of a backup to challenge him. In Cleveland, the qb behind him will be the first pick in the draft noted for his accuracy. How long do you think it will take before there is a loud chorus singing to replace him? I'm confident that before the season is over with Mayfield will be taking the starting snaps. It wouldn't surprise me that if Mayfield plays well in camp and preseason that the Browns have the rambunctious rookie as their on opening day. 

 

From a Buffalo standpoint the Taylor debate should be finished; it lacks relevancy. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 minutes ago, MDFan said:

Except Drew Brees did not have 3 years as a starter and 7 in the league at that point.  Not an apt comparison.  Tyrod is what he is at this point.  He is not Drew Brees about to blossom.  

 

Drew Brees had been in the league 3 years and it was his 2nd year as a starter, the year when QB are prototypically expected to take a "big step forward".  But the point, as I clearly stated, was not to compare Brees and Taylor or argue Taylor will be Brees.

 

The point is, looking arbitrarily at # passing yards or games with low passing yards in a season is NOT a good metric to determine which QB belong on an NFL roster.

[HappyDays]

I'm very curious to see how the Cleveland offense looks this year. They're obviously going to build an offense that plays off of Tyrod's strengths (something Dennisom didn't even try), and he'll be supported by Josh Gordon, Jarvis Landry, Nick Chubb, Carlos Hyde, and David Njoku. I still like Hue Jackson as a playcaller. It should be the most exciting offense they've had in years unless Tyrod totally craps the bed.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I'm very curious to see how the Cleveland offense looks this year. They're obviously going to build an offense that plays off of Tyrod's strengths (something Dennisom didn't even try), and he'll be supported by Josh Gordon, Jarvis Landry, Nick Chubb, Carlos Hyde, and David Njoku. I still like Hue Jackson as a playcaller. It should be the most exciting offense they've had in years unless Tyrod totally craps the bed.

 

It'll be Todd Haley making the play calls. 

[Zebrastripes]

59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm really tired of this argument.  Per you, Drew Brees should have been thrown out of the league after 2003: 3 games under 100 passing yards and 4 more under 200 yds (an additional game that just squeaked over that benchmark 202), out of only 11 games started.  Average of only 191 yds passing.  Brees clearly wasn't doing enough to stay on an NFL team.  Ship the bum out of town.  Next year, pro bowl, "comeback player of the year".  Two years later, moves to N'Orleans and the rest is history.

 

I'm not arguing that the Bills should have kept Tyrod nor that he's Drew Brees, just that the criteria cited are (based on history) not good benchmarks for whether or not a guy is capable of quality QB play in the NFL.

Biggest difference here is tyrod had 3 years and regressed over them 3 years.  He was afraid to make throws or just didnt see open guys.  I should have led with that.  Brees improved from one year to the next.  If brees continued the ame path as the year you stated he would have been out of the league but he didn't he improved where as tyrod did not improve.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Zebrastripes

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

And that's an entirely valid consideration. 

 

My point is just that I'm tired of hearing low-yardage passing games thrown out as though they're infallable metrics of a QB's NFL quality.

One can not look at a single-season performance of a QB with <100 yd and <200 yd passing games and say "this guy sucks, he doesn't belong on an NFL team".  Or at least, if one did, one would be kicking a number of very high quality NFL QB off the roster.

Oh I agree.  

 

Remember 300 - the meme that wouldn’t end 

 

that all started because I said I’d like to see Tyrod pass for 300 yards more than a few times a season.  

 

Then his fans fans started in with his “great” stats. 

 

As you know - a game is is more than stats.  

17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think Foles would have come here.  I think he wanted to play for someone in the Reid coaching tree.

 

We could have gone after Keenum, but does anyone think Keenum would have had the year he had in Minnesota under Dennison instead of Shurmer, and throwing to Thompson and Jones instead of Theilen and Diggs? I know I don't.

Which supports my post that with the question marks of FA QB’s at the time McDermott kept Tyrod because he was the safer bet. 

[Tsaikotic]

42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm really tired of this argument.  Per you, Drew Brees should have been thrown out of the league after 2003: 3 games under 100 passing yards and 4 more under 200 yds (an additional game that just squeaked over that benchmark 202), out of only 11 games started.  Average of only 191 yds passing.  Brees clearly wasn't doing enough to stay on an NFL team.  Ship the bum out of town.  Next year, pro bowl, "comeback player of the year".  Two years later, moves to N'Orleans and the rest is history.

 

I'm not arguing that the Bills should have kept Tyrod nor that he's Drew Brees, just that the criteria cited are (based on history) not good benchmarks for whether or not a guy is capable of quality QB play in the NFL.

first I'll say I understand your point, so im not arguing that...Brees was the wrong guy to go with..he hasnt had under 4000 yards since 2006 and 5 of those years he had over 5000 yards...2 or 3 games here or there under 200 yards wasnt going to raise the fans ire ..Taylor has barely cracked 3000 yards the past 3 years...Im in the middle of the Taylor haters and lovers...I liked Taylor but I still saw we needed more from the QB position then he gave

[uticaclub]

I don’t understand how anyone saw him play the last 2 years and thinks he should be on the team with the cap hit he had. He’s everything you want in a backup but he was getting paid starter money. 

[gjv001]

If the Browns management lets Taylor play, given the quality of talent around him, he will probably get Cleveland into the playoffs this season. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Like John said 

 

One needs to see progression not regression in his 3rd year as a starter 

 

3 minutes ago, gjv001 said:

If the Browns management lets Taylor play, given the quality of talent around him, he will probably get Cleveland into the playoffs this season. 

1-31.   

 

Playoffs?  Playoffs???!!!

 

LOL

 

[Cripple Creek]

53 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

?

When I opened the article I expected to have the same reaction. Turns out the title is click bait.  Taylor gave thoughtful replies, but the editors at TBN decided that they needed to take the low road in an effort to boost their numbers.

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:

Delusional 

 

Benched for poor play leaving us with Peterman 

 

130 yard easily winnable playoff game 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here we go teddy!   Funny how he got to the playoffs and you still can’t be grateful.  No playoff game is easily winnable. Shows how much you don’t know. 

7 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Like John said 

 

One needs to see progression not regression in his 3rd year as a starter 

 

1-31.   

 

Playoffs?  Playoffs???!!!

 

LOL

 

 

Yeah. You know like the bills last season.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Zebrastripes said:

Biggest difference here is tyrod had 3 years and regressed over them 3 years.  He was afraid to make throws or just didnt see open guys.  I should have led with that.  Brees improved from one year to the next.  If brees continued the ame path as the year you stayed he would have been out of the league but he didn't he improved where as tyrod did not improve.

 

Ah, ok, so now we're into what we see on the field when he throws or doesn't throw.  I'm all on board with that as a metric.

 

(in his 3rd year in the league, Brees was held to have regressed, as seen by the metric you cited - he had no games under 100 yds his previous year, his 1st as a starter)

20 minutes ago, Tsaikotic said:

first I'll say I understand your point, so im not arguing that...Brees was the wrong guy to go with..he hasnt had under 4000 yards since 2006 and 5 of those years he had over 5000 yards...2 or 3 games here or there under 200 yards wasnt going to raise the fans ire ..Taylor has barely cracked 3000 yards the past 3 years...Im in the middle of the Taylor haters and lovers...I liked Taylor but I still saw we needed more from the QB position then he gave

 

Brees was the guy I chose for precise reasons.  Between his 2nd and 3rd years in the league (1st and 2nd years starting) he hit all the marks the OP cited as "doesn't belong on an NFL team".  In fact, San Diego believed he probably couldn't play in the league, which is why they drafted a QB in the 1st after that season.  It wasn't a case of "a few games here and there not raising the fans ire", it was a case of expecting him to progress, but seeing him regress and having a consistently BAD season, a 2108 yd season.  In San Diego, Brees was NOT that 4000 yd passing QB.  He averaged 205, 192, and 210 ypg (the 210 ypg was his "comeback player of the year" pro bowl season).

 

I have no argument that we needed more from the QB position than Taylor was showing us and it was time to move on. 

 

My point is that people say all kinds of pretty silly stuff to justify it, stuff that's not bourne out by looking at the initial 3 years of starting for a number of now legendary QB.  And it wouldn't shock me if under Haley, Taylor showed a  jump - though I don't think Mayfield is going to sit politely on the bench behind him.  That is going to be an "interesting" QB room.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

10 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Yeah. You know like the bills last season.  

1-31 is a far cry from 16-16.  

The Bills have been close for the 2 prior seasons and they were almost as close before TT. 

[Tsaikotic]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ah, ok, so now we're into what we see on the field when he throws or doesn't throw.  I'm all on board with that as a metric.

 

(in his 3rd year in the league, Brees was held to have regressed, as seen by the metric you cited - he had no games under 100 yds his previous year, his 1st as a starter)

 

Brees was the guy I chose for precise reasons.  Between his 2nd and 3rd years in the league (1st and 2nd years starting) he hit all the marks the OP cited as "doesn't belong on an NFL team".  In fact, San Diego believed he probably couldn't play in the league, which is why they drafted a QB in the 1st after that season.  It wasn't a case of "a few games here and there not raising the fans ire", it was a case of expecting him to progress, but seeing him regress and having a consistently BAD season, a 2108 yd season.  In San Diego, Brees was NOT that 4000 yd passing QB.  He averaged 205, 192, and 210 ypg (the 210 ypg was his "comeback player of the year" pro bowl season).

 

I have no argument that we needed more from the QB position than Taylor was showing us and it was time to move on. 

 

My point is that people say all kinds of pretty silly stuff to justify it, stuff that's not bourne out by looking at the initial 3 years of starting for a number of now legendary QB.  And it wouldn't shock me if under Haley, Taylor showed a  jump - though I don't think Mayfield is going to sit politely on the bench behind him.  That is going to be an "interesting" QB room.

ah yea ok..I wasnt thinking about his time in SD..makes sense now

 

I do remember that i wanted Brees when he was being shopped around or cut  or whatever happened, I forget...just remember wanting him to be a Bill

Edited June 2, 2018 by Tsaikotic

[Zebrastripes]

23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ah, ok, so now we're into what we see on the field when he throws or doesn't throw.  I'm all on board with that as a metric.

 

(in his 3rd year in the league, Brees was held to have regressed, as seen by the metric you cited - he had no games under 100 yds his previous year, his 1st as a starter)

Look at brees' 3rd year as a starter not his 3rd year in the league.  If you want to argue years in the league tyrod has regressed over years 5 through 7 where as Brees was on a steady increase in production from his 3rd year and beyond.  Tyrod has gone backwards since year one as a starter Brees has not.  How many qbs still make it on a NFL roster after a decrease in production for 3 straight years with already being average at best?

Edited June 2, 2018 by Zebrastripes

[FearLess Price]

This threads going 7 pages. Easy.

At least theres news today. Im not complaining.

 

 

As for OP. Tyrod did enough to stay but theres too much bad blood with the benching and too much controversy potential in a tt vs allen camp battle. The team respected Tyrod they played harder for him in that San Diego game it was obvious. That type of attitude from the team wouldnt work with what were trying to do with a franchise qb. He had to go for us to grow as a team. Its that simple. And Tyrods my dog. I hope he steps his game up big time this year or next no matter what team he lands on except for the pats or fish. This year is crucial for Tyrod,  its either gonna make or break him. Its his contract year and hes going up against the afc north who have always had his number, and hes got a #1 QB drooling at the starting position right on his coat tails. The CoT has spoken. Pastor McFly in the building. Amen

 

And yes im still down with OPP.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

As for OP. Tyrod did enough to stay but theres too much bad blood with the benching and too much controversy potential in a tt vs allen camp battle. The team respected Tyrod they played harder for him in that San Diego game it was obvious. That type of attitude from the team wouldnt work with what were trying to do with a franchise qb. He had to go for us to grow as a team. Its that simple.

 

I think you're spot on here.  If Taylor were benched and the rookie struggled, and the team supported Taylor, that would be divisive as heck in the locker room

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think Foles would have come here.  I think he wanted to play for someone in the Reid coaching tree.

 

We could have gone after Keenum, but does anyone think Keenum would have had the year he had in Minnesota under Dennison instead of Shurmer, and throwing to Thompson and Jones instead of Theilen and Diggs? I know I don't.

McDermott is in the Reid coaching tree.  Beane, too, I think.  

[Augie]

20 minutes ago, Tsaikotic said:

ah yea ok..I wasnt thinking about his time in SD..makes sense now

 

I do remember that i wanted Brees when he was being shopped around or cut  or whatever happened, I forget...just remember wanting him to be a Bill

 

I’m just glad the Dolphins doctors passed on him. Can you IMAGINE? Brady AND Brees in division for that many years? Just the thought makes me queezy......

 

(I’m think he had a questionable labrum, BTW)