stuvian Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 11 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Yea he’s just playing possum Year 12 is when those talents will soar I honestly think he'll have a Randall Cunningham/Rich Gannon style renaissance 1
twoandfourteen Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 3 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: Obviously not. You don't need to be a 300 yard passer. You need to be clutch which he wasn't. I definitely agree about the "clutch" criticism. He was terrible when the Bills were down by even one score -- it was game over. I don't agree about the 300 yd comment. The ability to produce 300 yards of passing offense in a game at least occasionally in the modern NFL is a bare minimum standard of competence at the position. During Tyrod's tenure from 2015-2017, 52 NFL QBs produced at least one 300+ yd performance. Tyrod barely made the list, but only because he hit 300 one time -- and it was in OT vs the Dolphins. He was sub-300 at the end of regulation. For reference, Brian Hoyer hit 300+ 7 times.
FearLess Price Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 19 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: You wanted to see certain stats from Taylor, others respond with stats, you respond with "a game is more stats." That made me Nice work.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, FearLess Price said: That made me Nice work. Having people on ignore sometimes is a hindrance, but the purpose is to avoid the ignorance. WRT stats — let’s talk about achievements and effectiveness. When you need to pass and you can’t then you have a problem. The ability to pass 300 yards as needed is a good and effective thing. Is 300 yards more an achievement or a stat. YPP is a stat. 3rd down conversion is a stat. Completion % is a stat that doesn’t account for poorly placed passes. So the TT people can’t brag on his “great stats” all they want, but when they ignore the incompetence it is confounding. Having 4 very lousy games in 5 weeks is bad no matter how you look at it.
Big Gun Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: I definitely agree about the "clutch" criticism. He was terrible when the Bills were down by even one score -- it was game over. I don't agree about the 300 yd comment. The ability to produce 300 yards of passing offense in a game at least occasionally in the modern NFL is a bare minimum standard of competence at the position. During Tyrod's tenure from 2015-2017, 52 NFL QBs produced at least one 300+ yd performance. Tyrod barely made the list, but only because he hit 300 one time -- and it was in OT vs the Dolphins. He was sub-300 at the end of regulation. For reference, Brian Hoyer hit 300+ 7 times. I know, right. It's not like passing yards aren't used as one of the criteria by the HOF to critique a QB worthiness. Only in the loony world of Tyrod defenders are QB passing yards not important. Comedy at it's finest Edited June 3, 2018 by PeterGriffin
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 1 minute ago, PeterGriffin said: I know, right. It's not like passing yards aren't used as one of the criteria by the HOF to critique a QB worthiness. Only in the loony world of Tyrod defenders are passing yards not important. Comedy at it's finest Is it like saying 200 yards - its not about the size but how you use it. For the 7 year vet (Tay Tay) fans it’s a good thing for the 2nd year AJ it’s a bad thing.
Young34 Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 16 hours ago, Zebrastripes said: Everyone that has argued yards doesn't matter doesn't take into account the fact Tyrod regressed from season 1 to season 3 as a starter. Every example people use such as Brady and Brees is nonsense because both of these guys showed steady improvement from year 1 and beyond. Brees did have the hiccup in year 2 as a starter but showed steady improvement in year 3 and beyond. Plus let's take a look at average passing yards per game from then until now. I bet there is a difference. Never once did I say that yards don't matter. What I said was that yards shouldn't be the sole metric for judging a QB off of. There's a ton of data that goes into a QB's performance, and everything should be considered. Btw, Brady regressed in his second full season as starter, so your blanket statement of "steady improvement" year after year isn't necessarily true either, and it doesn't need to be. Every pro QB has hiccup seasons, some just brush it off and move forward, such as Brees who you mentioned. What matters is the final product, which is where Tyrod absolutely didn't pan out. I would've been just find with Tyrod having some rough seasons if he cleaned it up in the end, but he simply regressed year after year.
HOUSE Posted June 3, 2018 Author Posted June 3, 2018 On 6/2/2018 at 8:20 AM, Zebrastripes said: Biggest difference here is tyrod had 3 years and regressed over them 3 years. He was afraid to make throws or just didnt see open guys. I should have led with that. Brees improved from one year to the next. If brees continued the ame path as the year you stated he would have been out of the league but he didn't he improved where as tyrod did not improve. Do we really need anymore reasons for trading him....says it all
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, Young34 said: Btw, Brady regressed in his second full season as starter, so your blanket statement of "steady improvement" year after year isn't necessarily true either, and it doesn't need to be. Brady (and the team) “regressed” because the Pats gave up on the run that season. The 3rd season they focused on the run again and the Pats has better success.
Zebrastripes Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, Young34 said: Never once did I say that yards don't matter. What I said was that yards shouldn't be the sole metric for judging a QB off of. There's a ton of data that goes into a QB's performance, and everything should be considered. Btw, Brady regressed in his second full season as starter, so your blanket statement of "steady improvement" year after year isn't necessarily true either, and it doesn't need to be. Every pro QB has hiccup seasons, some just brush it off and move forward, such as Brees who you mentioned. What matters is the final product, which is where Tyrod absolutely didn't pan out. I would've been just find with Tyrod having some rough seasons if he cleaned it up in the end, but he simply regressed year after year. He attempted 80 less passes that year which would coincide with less yards and tds. His qbr however did go up.
Young34 Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said: He attempted 80 less passes that year which would coincide with less yards and tds. His qbr however did go up. It did go up from 2002-2003, by .2%. from 2001 - 2002, his QBR dropped off by 10 points. QBR is a rough way to judge QB's though. For example, Tyrod had a much higher QBR than Brady did in each of their first three seasons, which clearly isn't a great example.
YoloinOhio Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 On 6/2/2018 at 10:55 AM, JaCrispy said: He really is delusional...and that’s the biggest reason the bills needed to move on...if he truly feels he had done enough and the team decided to keep him, the bills were doomed to fail. Well he did tweet out asking for pro bowl votes after one of the worst games of his career... 1
NoSaint Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 10 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: How dare people use passing yards to assess the performance of a QB? What's next -- using the number points each team scores to determine which one won the game? Let's go to the tape! Breakdown that video! Sometimes we overthink the hell out of it all... when a guy regularly comes up short of the minimum, and rarely puts on a good showing.... well... yea, maybe he has bad receivers or mediocre protection but at least once in awhile you’d hope to at least see it flash with a big passing day. TT is a limited passer. That can win you some games still, and maybe even a ring if he gets hot at the right time with a great defense ala a guy like Flacco..... but you can look at those stats and say he’s not going to be THE guy 1
Zebrastripes Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Young34 said: It did go up from 2002-2003, by .2%. from 2001 - 2002, his QBR dropped off by 10 points. QBR is a rough way to judge QB's though. For example, Tyrod had a much higher QBR than Brady did in each of their first three seasons, which clearly isn't a great example. Valid point. If a qb continues to make safe easy plays and not take a shot his qbr will be greatly inflated.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Zebrastripes said: I actually looked these up myself. The biggest problem with these numbers and comparing them directly with the Bills years is the fact that woods and Watkins were the 3rd and 4th leading receiver on the Rams. When they were on the Bills they were the first and second. Good point. The second issue with comparing them as a metric of QB productivity, is the need to consider the overall offensive scheme. In 2017, the Rams passed 53% of their QB plays from scrimmage (eg not including punts, FGA etc). In 2015, the Bills ran 52% of their QB plays from scrimmage. The Rams in 2017 had the #1 offense in the league for points scored. The 2015 Bills were #12 - I think top 10 projecting the Tyrod games to 16. So clearly overall the Rams were running a more effective offense in 2017 than the Bills in 2015.
Shaw66 Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 17 minutes ago, THE SLAMMER said: Do we really need anymore reasons for trading him....says it all You're correct. As Zebra said, Taylor regressed over three seasons as a starter. Yes he had a coaching change in there, but still, his first season as a starter should not have been the best, by far, of the three. By season three he should have been making plays that made a difference to the team, and we weren't seeing them. Four seasons on the bench plus three starting should have added up to more. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Well he did tweet out asking for pro bowl votes after one of the worst games of his career... That was Sooooo bad.
Zebrastripes Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 8 hours ago, grb said: Is this a Taylor-specific rule, or does it apply to other players and positions? If so, let's look at a running back in the 2017 season : Panthers : 12 carries, 09 yards 0.75 ypa Broncos : 14 carries, 21 yards 1.50 ypa Jets : 12 carries, 25 yards 2.08 ypa Chiefs : 22 carries, 49 yards 2.23 ypa Dolphins : 20 carries, 50 yards 2.50 ypa Dolphins : 11 carries 10 yards 0.91 ypa Said running back got 27% of his season's yards in just two games, which is how he could amass the horror show above. Now : Before heads explode, let me be clear : I think LeSean McCoy is a national treasure, whose visage should be on Mt Rushmore. And there are so many caveats to this list : The worst games are the ones up-top, when the Bills still suffered the strongest effects of a dim-witted scheme change to the blocking. McCoy was out with an injury half the last Dolphin game, so take that into account. Plus, running backs need holes to run thru, which McCoy frequently did not have. So context is important in this case. Just like it doesn't hurt to consider a quarterback was playing with a bad offensive coordinator, spotty pass protection, a tight end who missed a quarter of the season (and could rarely practice otherwise), and one of the worst sets of receivers in the National Football League. Context !!! After all, a feature running back averaging 27.3 yards at 1.82 yards a carry over six games of a season might fail to meet your lofty standards. Yet shady still finished 4th in yards. Don't just cherry pick numbers to help your argument. Look at the overall season. Nice try though.
FearLess Price Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 38 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Having people on ignore sometimes is a hindrance, but the purpose is to avoid the ignorance. WRT stats — let’s talk about achievements and effectiveness. When you need to pass and you can’t then you have a problem. The ability to pass 300 yards as needed is a good and effective thing. Is 300 yards more an achievement or a stat. YPP is a stat. 3rd down conversion is a stat. Completion % is a stat that doesn’t account for poorly placed passes. So the TT people can’t brag on his “great stats” all they want, but when they ignore the incompetence it is confounding. Having 4 very lousy games in 5 weeks is bad no matter how you look at it. Youre preeching to the wrong crowd. Stats can be manipulated to support either opinion. I really dont give a f about it anymore. TT was fun and frustrating to watch, much funner to watch than Ortan or EJ, hands down, and for that he gets brownie points alone. We were so boring on offense before tyrod came thru with his random sandlot plays. I still preech at the CoT but it is what it is. Tyrod wasnt good enough to put the roster on his back and win with his arm like he won vs tenesee with his legs. We got a 3rd round pick and broke the draught through a flawed but sometimes electric QB. We won. Tyrod gets a 1 year fck it season in the factory of sadness to make a push for a new starting contract on another team next year. Only problem is hes going against the afc north who have his number and always shut him down. Its really do or die as a back up for him this season. Hard knocks is gonna be dope this year and the browns got enough weapons on offense to be fun to watch no matter who starts at QB. We used that 3rd to replace our MLB with a solid prospect in the 1st. It was a win/win trade scenario. 3
Zebrastripes Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: In 2017, the Rams passed 53% of their QB plays from scrimmage (eg not including punts, FGA etc). In 2015, the Bills ran 52% of their QB plays from scrimmage Not being snarky by asking this I'm just curious to where you found these stats from? They are super detailed and i2d like to take a deeper look into them.
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