BadLandsMeanie Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Mickey said: The issue isn't just about what the players can say at work, it is what the employer can compel them to say when at work. I think there are limits to an employer's ability to compel speech by their employees when it is unrelated to work. Thus, Burger King can mandate that their employees say "have a nice day" after taking a customer's order. They cannot constitutionally compel them to say "God Bless America" or "God Save the Trump" whenever greeting a customer anymore than they can compel them to give a Nazi salute every time someone orders a whopper with no pickles or says the word "Obama". Mandating certain conduct during the national anthem, it could be argued, is compelling speech. And what it has to do with the job of winning football games I do not know. I believe that this whole compromise of letting players stay in the locker room is likely a strategy to avoid the constitutional problem of compelling speech. At the same time, I don't think the NFL has solved its problem. People will just get all bent out of shape about players hiding in the locker room. Eventually, the President will tweet that the owners should "fire every SOB who disrespects our country and our soldiers by staying in the locker room." What then? This doesn't make sense to me. They are just supposed to stand there. How is the forcing them to be political or say or endorse anything? All they are supposed to do is not disrupt it.
reddogblitz Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Mickey said: Eventually, the President will tweet that the owners should "fire every SOB who disrespects our country and our soldiers by staying in the locker room." What then? I fully expect this to happen bigly. It worked great last year, and this year an election is coming up.
purple haze Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: This doesn't make sense to me. They are just supposed to stand there. How is the forcing them to be political or say or endorse anything? All they are supposed to do is not disrupt it. How did they disrupt it? The singers sing the anthem. No player stopped anyone from singing. The flag still gets unfurled on the field. No player stops military or other personnel from bringing the flag on the field. the anthem goes on as it always has. Except for those who choose not to stand for the stated reasons. 1 1
Tatonka68 Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, purple haze said: The players protest before the game. If you paid for a ticket to the game you saw the game played with no interruptions save TV timeouts or injuries. When Mike Pence went to see Hamilton the actor who spoke to him from the stage did so after the show had finished not during the actual show. People received what they paid for in both instances. Somehow, some people continue to make the situation what they want it to be instead of what it is. The Anthem is part of the experience. SJW need to stay home, not on my $100.00. After the game protest all you want. If they care soon deeply for their cause, LOL, maybe they should quit and join the black panthers or BLM. Edited June 1, 2018 by Tatonka68
K-9 Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, tumaro02 said: Nothing, nada, zilch, zero........I did watch the NFL Draft though.... That’s amazing. It’s difficult to avoid buying the products of NFL advertisers. Proctor and Gamble, for instance, stocks stores with such a varied array of products it would be hard not to buy at least one of them by accident. Props for avoiding Mickey Ds that stuff will kill ya.
purple haze Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Tatonka68 said: The Anthem is part of the experience. SJW need to stay home, not on my $100.00. After the game protest all you want. No. You paid for a game and you get a game. if it bothers you that much you can stay home. Do you stand for the anthem when you watch games on TV? You'd be the only I've ever heard doing that. 2 2
K-9 Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Mickey said: . I believe that this whole compromise of letting players stay in the locker room is likely a strategy to avoid the constitutional problem of compelling speech. At the same time, I don't think the NFL has solved its problem. People will just get all bent out of shape about players hiding in the locker room. Eventually, the President will tweet that the owners should "fire every SOB who disrespects our country and our soldiers by staying in the locker room." What then? I said the same thing In the last anthem thread; that staying in the locker room will eventually be considered a bigger affront than taking a knee. You bring that point home by suggesting it will be Trump who will help make that happen. It’s a wedge issue and he will continue to exploit it as long as he can. 2
Tatonka68 Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, purple haze said: No. You paid for a game and you get a game. if it bothers you that much you can stay home. Do you stand for the anthem when you watch games on TV? You'd be the only I've ever heard doing that. No I paid for EVERYTHING. So stand your a$$ up and honor OUR country and the men that DIED so you act a fool. 9 minutes ago, K-9 said: I said the same thing In the last anthem thread; that staying in the locker room will eventually be considered a bigger affront than taking a knee. You bring that point home by suggesting it will be Trump who will help make that happen. It’s a wedge issue and he will continue to exploit it as long as he can. It's not Trump it's the kneeling. 2
LeGOATski Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Tatonka68 said: No I paid for EVERYTHING. So stand your a$$ up and honor OUR country and the men that DIED so you act a fool. You paid the price of admission to a football game. Congrats. 5 minutes ago, K-9 said: I said the same thing In the last anthem thread; that staying in the locker room will eventually be considered a bigger affront than taking a knee. You bring that point home by suggesting it will be Trump who will help make that happen. It’s a wedge issue and he will continue to exploit it as long as he can. According to Tatonka, the national anthem is all about the fan experience. Players aren't the fans and they didn't pay for the experience. They shouldn't be allowed to come out at all if they didn't pay. Every player should pay $100 for the full game experience, IMO. 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 26 minutes ago, K-9 said: That’s true dedication. In addition to canceling Sunday ticket and not buying tickets, etc., did you also not buy a single product advertised during NFL telecasts? Wait, I'm so confused, in order to effect that, wouldn't he have had to watch the NFL telecasts that he said he's not watching because, protests? 1
Mickey Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 15 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: This doesn't make sense to me. They are just supposed to stand there. How is the forcing them to be political or say or endorse anything? All they are supposed to do is not disrupt it. The rule says they shall stand and "show respect" for the flag and the anthem. Being compelled to show respect is more than simply not disrupting the ceremony. And what exactly "show respect" means in this context is anyone's guess. Can they chew and spit tobacco during the anthem? Can they bow their heads and close their eyes? Can they look away from the flag by averting their eyes or turning their heads? Can they have their helmets on? If not, can they wear a cap? A knit hat in the cold? Can they roll their eyes? How about sorting out their nachos, seat pads, binoculars and blankets as the fans do?
purple haze Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: The Anthem is part of the experience. SJW need to stay home, not on my $100.00. After the game protest all you want. If they care soon deeply for their cause, LOL, maybe they should quit and join the black panthers or BLM. No need to for them to quit. They can play and make money and protest and others can complain. And one doesn't need to "join" BLM. The issues the players were protesting is baked into BLM's platform so they're already in, at least in regard to issues of inequality and police misconduct. The "New Black Panthers" are not the same as the original Black Panthers who were formed in 1966 in response to... yes, you guessed it, Police Brutality. Using California law at the time, which allowed open carry and a citizens right to observe police arrests, the Panthers did both before Governor Raegan led a change of the laws. The Panthers also sponsored free health clinics, maintained free breakfast programs for kids in their communities and ran their own educational facilities. But I heard to some on Fox News they were equivalent to the KKK. Now that's a LOL. 2
EasternOHBillsFan Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: Yes, the right to protest when NOT on the company dollar I don’t care what he does but I believe Pegula voted for the new league rule FACT CHECK: No YES votes were recorded. Pegula never confirmed he voted for it or abstained. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23593960/nfl-hold-formal-anthem-policy-vote
Mickey Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 35 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Great do it on your own damn time and not when I shelled out $100 to watch your ungrateful pompous a$$ play a kids game. The CFL has plenty of roster spots. They have plenty of season tickets for sale as well. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, White Linen said: Let the players do something that's upsetting a significant amount of customers? Interesting question. I have NOT seen any data on this. Has anyone else? One would think, in these days of robocalls etc, someone would have polled a bunch of people: 1) have you attended an NFL football game in the last 12 months? 2) have you watched a televised NFL football game in the last 12 months? 3) etc etc It would be straightforward and not particularly expensive in the grand scheme of things to collect this data and publicize it. I would be very surprised if the data had not been collected. The question then is why isn't it publicized? Or is it and I just missed it? 46 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Let's say you pay $100 00 to see a Broadway play and during the play a actor stops acting and tells the audience that he is vegan and eating animals is evil. Is that freedom of speech? What would you do if you were the producer? Not analogous. No one is stopping an NFL game nor making an announcement to the audience.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Interesting question. I have NOT seen any data on this. Has anyone else? One would think, in these days of robocalls etc, someone would have polled a bunch of people: 1) have you attended an NFL football game in the last 12 months? 2) have you watched a televised NFL football game in the last 12 months? 3) etc etc It would be straightforward and not particularly expensive in the grand scheme of things to collect this data and publicize it. I would be very surprised if the data had not been collected. The question then is why isn't it publicized? Or is it and I just missed it? Not analogous. No one is stopping an NFL game nor making an announcement to the audience. ..I would think it is their venue, their prerogative as to what they will do as well as what they expect NFL EMPLOYEES to do as far as following protocol...what did I miss?.....
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ..I would think it is their venue, their prerogative as to what they will do as well as what they expect NFL EMPLOYEES to do as far as following protocol...what did I miss?..... Sorry, I'm trying to match your response and what I posted, and failing.
K-9 Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Wait, I'm so confused, in order to effect that, wouldn't he have had to watch the NFL telecasts that he said he's not watching because, protests? You mean so he would “know” what advertisers to avoid? I hadn’t thought of that but it’s a good question. But some of those companies, like P&G for example, are so vast and have holdings in so many other companies that it’s nearly impossible to avoid buying their products at times. 15 minutes ago, Mickey said: The rule says they shall stand and "show respect" for the flag and the anthem. Being compelled to show respect is more than simply not disrupting the ceremony. And what exactly "show respect" means in this context is anyone's guess. Can they chew and spit tobacco during the anthem? Can they bow their heads and close their eyes? Can they look away from the flag by averting their eyes or turning their heads? Can they have their helmets on? If not, can they wear a cap? A knit hat in the cold? Can they roll their eyes? How about sorting out their nachos, seat pads, binoculars and blankets as the fans do? Can they act like many of the drunken nimrods in the stands?
The_Dude Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 We live in a time where people can’t decide if patriotism is veiled racism, and there’s close to 40 genders. What a time to be alive. 2 1
K-9 Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 25 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: No I paid for EVERYTHING. So stand your a$$ up and honor OUR country and the men that DIED so you act a fool. It's not Trump it's the kneeling. Who will insist on making it a wedge issue leading up to the midterms? You watch, he won’t waste any time calling out players who choose to stay in the locker room. 1
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