PastaJoe Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 3 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said: I wish those of us who are annoyed by it, could sign up and have the fines paid to us. I wouldn't mind it all if that happened. I wonder how much money it is? Say I got 100 bucks for every bozo that kneeled down. That would be pretty sweet. I think I am some sort of a dick because that thought actually makes me happy. I would probably even be hollering for more of them to man up and kneel. I’m annoyed by every bozo who’s annoyed by the players kneeling, so you should then have to pass the money on to me. 3 hours ago, Wily Dog said: You are a person who has NO idea what they were kneeling for. They are kneeling for a basic freedom of justice for ALL. Not just the boneheads that think the "Justice For All" in our pledge was meant for you and not all Americans. Everyone knows why they’re kneeling. Some would rather follow Trump’s lead and twist it because they don’t want to address the real issue.
Doc Brown Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 2 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said: Exactly. You would need a commissioner who could handle that. They have chosen one who instead is making them gigantic profits. Goodell should be head of NFL accounting. But the nimrod owners don't understand that. And now the owners are not even consistent in backing up their own league plan! So now they will get owned. As many have pointed out this may now become worse instead of better in terms of it being a distraction to the business. I still don't know how Goodell has that job. He mishandled the Ray Rice situation claiming he "never saw" the actual videotape, overreacted and dragged on the Deflategate fiasco to make up for his destroying of tapes with Spygate, forced TNF onto the league leading to some awful games, tried low balling referees despite their obscene profits leading to the disastrous scab refs, and implemented the stupid excessive celebrations rule after a touchdown. I know the owners were happy with the 2011 collective bargaining agreement, but this National Anthem screw up should be the nail in his coffin. Instead he gets a 5 year 200 million dollar contract extension. 1
Wily Dog Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, PastaJoe said: I’m annoyed by every bozo who’s annoyed by the players kneeling, so you should then have to pass the money on to me. Everyone knows why they’re kneeling. Some would rather follow Trump’s lead and twist it because they don’t want to address the real issue. Precisely !, but the posts don't bear,,everyone knows why they are kneeling. They are clueless as to their own rights and do not know what the real issue is,
BadLandsMeanie Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 25 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: I still don't know how Goodell has that job. He mishandled the Ray Rice situation claiming he "never saw" the actual videotape, overreacted and dragged on the Deflategate fiasco to make up for his destroying of tapes with Spygate, forced TNF onto the league leading to some awful games, tried low balling referees despite their obscene profits leading to the disastrous scab refs, and implemented the stupid excessive celebrations rule after a touchdown. I know the owners were happy with the 2011 collective bargaining agreement, but this National Anthem screw up should be the nail in his coffin. Instead he gets a 5 year 200 million dollar contract extension. You and I agree on how good he is at the people / policy part of the job. Not good. But he got the renewal because there is a new CBA coming up. He has been good at that. If he is good again next time it means more gazillions of dollars. Why they don't just let him be the lawyer finance guy and take care of that end of it, and get a people person manager for the Commissioner's job, I will never know.
keepthefaith Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Andrew in CA said: A) F the blackhawks, i don't watch garbage teams, that needs to be said off the bat. ? B) that's lovely, but i don't think it's appropriate for this to be happening at every single sporting event around the country every day. It diminishes the symbolism and importance of the anthem. It's been a tradition for decades at sporting events to honor our country with the national anthem. If the fans (customers) don't want it then the organizers can take it out. I suspect however that a significant majority of fans prefer that it's done. The anthem and patriotism help bond us as citizens and with sporting events being among the largest gatherings of Americans, it seems like an appropriate time to honor our nation and nearly every civilized nation on earth does the same thing at their events. As for Kaepernick, he chose a lousy path to further his cause, probably the worst path possible. He should have thought through the potential reaction of customers and employers in his field of work. He should have thought through whether or not it would be a good idea to vent his grievance while on camera at work. He should have educated himself better on what he feels are the issues and been better prepared to articulate the supporting facts. Instead he bit the hand the fed him and failed to move many people to his side. He did succeed in bringing attention to what he feels are issues and he paid a high personal price. He is a big reason why the NFL committed 10's of millions of dollars to social causes.
Andrew in CA Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, keepthefaith said: It's been a tradition for decades at sporting events to honor our country with the national anthem. If the fans (customers) don't want it then the organizers can take it out. I suspect however that a significant majority of fans prefer that it's done. The anthem and patriotism help bond us as citizens and with sporting events being among the largest gatherings of Americans, it seems like an appropriate time to honor our nation and nearly every civilized nation on earth does the same thing at their events. And my question is why. Why has it been a tradition for decades? It's pointless. It's an embarrassment and if you think it actually supports and revers this great nation you are mistaken. Hundreds of dopes are puking, or chugging beers, or fighting each other during the anthem. Because of the routine nature of it, the anthem has become a school bell to tell fans to get to their seats before the game starts. Honoring the country is so attenuated from the song that they might as well play the power rangers/ninja turtles/he-man song. You say that "a significant majority of fans prefer that it's done" -- where is your support for that? Show me your basis for that, please. I'd love to be wrong on this. The anthem has become so attenuated from true patriotism because of its routine playing at every sporting event that it has become meaningless. If it is ever going to be meaningful again, the powers that be better parse it out so that when folks hear it, they don't automatically think kickoff/puck drop/tip off/first pitch is 60 seconds away. If anything, the routine nature has diminished whatever power that song had. And it's a damn shame. Edited June 3, 2018 by Andrew in CA
Xwnyer Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 On 6/1/2018 at 3:12 PM, formerlyofCtown said: Kinda like you do what you want with your property. The NFL is a private business. However they play in PUBLICLY owned stadiums in a majority of the cities. They own the team they do not own the players they have contracts with the players.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 6 hours ago, keepthefaith said: It's been a tradition for decades at sporting events to honor our country with the national anthem. If the fans (customers) don't want it then the organizers can take it out. I suspect however that a significant majority of fans prefer that it's done. The anthem and patriotism help bond us as citizens and with sporting events being among the largest gatherings of Americans, it seems like an appropriate time to honor our nation and nearly every civilized nation on earth does the same thing at their events. I'm not sure that last is true. https://the18.com/soccer-news/why-europe-doesnt-play-national-anthems-before-matches
Xwnyer Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 52 minutes ago, Andrew in CA said: And my question is why. Why has it been a tradition for decades? It's pointless. It's an embarrassment and if you think it actually supports and revers this great nation you are mistaken. Hundreds of dopes are puking, or chugging beers, or fighting each other during the anthem. Because of the routine nature of it, the anthem has become a school bell to tell fans to get to their seats before the game starts. Honoring the country is so attenuated from the song that they might as well play the power rangers/ninja turtles/he-man song. You say that "a significant majority of fans prefer that it's done" -- where is your support for that? Show me your basis for that, please. I'd love to be wrong on this. The anthem has become so attenuated from true patriotism because of its routine playing at every sporting event that it has become meaningless. If it is ever going to be meaningful again, the powers that be better parse it out so that when folks hear it, they don't automatically think kickoff/puck drop/tip off/first pitch is 60 seconds away. If anything, the routine nature has diminished whatever power that song had. And it's a damn shame. Plus in many stadiums and arenas the fans chime in other elements to the song like shouting RED or other words or add ones to support the local mascot or color. By the time the last verse is being sung most fans are no longer showing respect beyond the drunkards
formerlyofCtown Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 18 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said: That’s ridiculous. You don’t get to do what you want when you lease anything. Do you get to add a second story when you lease a house? Do you get to enter a demolition derby when you lease a car? Really. You're basically trying to compare telling them they can't protest to burning down the stadium. I can feel myself getting dumber by the minute.
formerlyofCtown Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 9 hours ago, PastaJoe said: I’m annoyed by every bozo who’s annoyed by the players kneeling, so you should then have to pass the money on to me. Everyone knows why they’re kneeling. Some would rather follow Trump’s lead and twist it because they don’t want to address the real issue. Why is that pro Trump statements get warnings from the mods but anti Trump statements do not. A legitimate response would be appreciated. This topic should not be here. It is too political and going to get heated.
Saxum Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 20 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: Why is that pro Trump statements get warnings from the mods but anti Trump statements do not. A legitimate response would be appreciated. This topic should not be here. It is too political and going to get heated. Some of the Trumpites in MODs actually assign warning points on Trump statements.
Rico Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 On 6/1/2018 at 2:49 PM, Buffalo716 said: https://247sports.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/Article/NYC-politician-wants-New-York-Giants-Buffalo-Bills-to-adopt-Jets-anthem-policy-118678936/Amp NO. Sorry, Jumaane.
Cripple Creek Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said: Why is that pro Trump statements get warnings from the mods but anti Trump statements do not. A legitimate response would be appreciated. This topic should not be here. It is too political and going to get heated. Just curious here. How do you know what posts/authors have received warnings from the mods? I've been trying to figure this out for years and today I find out that lo and behold it is possible. Please let me know how this is done. PM is fine if you want to keep it between us. Thanks!
mannc Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 9 hours ago, keepthefaith said: As for Kaepernick, he chose a lousy path to further his cause, probably the worst path possible. He should have thought through the potential reaction of customers and employers in his field of work. He should have thought through whether or not it would be a good idea to vent his grievance while on camera at work. He should have educated himself better on what he feels are the issues and been better prepared to articulate the supporting facts. Instead he bit the hand the fed him and failed to move many people to his side. He did succeed in bringing attention to what he feels are issues and he paid a high personal price. He is a big reason why the NFL committed 10's of millions of dollars to social causes. Is this meant as a criticism of Kaep? Because if it’s true, it makes him look entirely admirable: Siunds like he sacrificed personal goals and wealth to bring attention to a cause he passionately believes in, without harming anyone. And, as you say, he got the league to donate millions to the cause.
T master Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 Figures another brilliant idea of a politician to push their ideology on others !!!! Hows that working out so far ??
Mr. WEO Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 12 hours ago, Doc Brown said: I still don't know how Goodell has that job. He mishandled the Ray Rice situation claiming he "never saw" the actual videotape, overreacted and dragged on the Deflategate fiasco to make up for his destroying of tapes with Spygate, forced TNF onto the league leading to some awful games, tried low balling referees despite their obscene profits leading to the disastrous scab refs, and implemented the stupid excessive celebrations rule after a touchdown. I know the owners were happy with the 2011 collective bargaining agreement, but this National Anthem screw up should be the nail in his coffin. Instead he gets a 5 year 200 million dollar contract extension. The answer to your question is right there in your post. He gets all that money so that Terry and Kim and Bob and Jerry and Dan don't have to be the ones seen getting their hands dirty with all of the boneheaded decisions the OWNERS make while running their collective corporation. He separates the public form the owners so they can keep raking in the billions while he takes the punches in the face from fans like you. How does anyone still not understand this?
tumaro02 Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Why do you seem to feel that rights, in this country are somehow conditional on whether or not one served in the armed forces? NOWHERE are any of our freedoms in any way made conditional on serving in the armed forces or enhanced by having done so. No one need "claim a Supreme Court ruling as a right". Our rights are granted to us under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and the point of the Supreme Court is simply to assess laws of lower courts in view of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Or possibly I simply don't understand what you mean. The overall point I was trying to make is that Supreme Court Justices who have steeped themselves in the Constitution and Bill of Rights have eloquently made the point that patriotism and displays of patriotism should not be coerced: "Words uttered under coercion are proof of loyalty to nothing but self-interest. Love of country must spring from willing hearts and free minds, inspired by a fair administration of wise laws enacted by the people's elected representatives within the bounds of express constitutional prohibitions." "no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein." I do respect your right to perceive it as disrespectful. I also think the above are good words to ponder when interpreting unwillingness to participate in a display of patriotism (such as standing for the national anthem before a game) as disrespect, rather than as the living example of our country's freedoms, including the freedom to disagree about things that are deeply important to some of us. Thanks for your lecture. Let’s be clear. I have no doubt that the players may have a legal right to kneel. When Colin Kaepernick did his thing in 2016 the owners could have quietly called Colin in and told him, “Hey, you are an employee of the San Francisco 49ers. We applaud your passion about your cause. But, you cannot promote your agenda by calling attention to yourself during a time of reverence that has been set aside for decades for our national anthem and flag wearing the corporate uniform and representing the San Francisco 49ers. We appreciate you however, and will find an appropriate venue for your protest. Do you know Colin that there are tens of thousands of fans here and across the US who view your protest as being disrespectful to our national anthem and flag? Is it fair for you to disrespect them to promote your personal agenda? Are you aware of the financial burden you could create when fans who have supported you and the team for decades stop supporting you and the team by cancelling their premium TV subscriptions and stop buying team apparel and sponsored products and stop coming to games? Many view your protest as being disrespectful to the men and women who have shed their blood to earn and defend your freedom to protest? Do you know many in attendance have served or have sons and daughters right now in harms way who view your actions as disrespectful to their sacrifices? The 49ers obviously did not do that. The NFL obviously did not do that. The Buffalo Bills obviously did not do that with their players. Colin was either not reflective of what his actions might cause or worse just didn’t give a damn. When the 49ers came to Buffalo in 2016 there was raucous boos when he entered the stadium. When he knelt, almost the entire stadium erupted in chants of USA USA USA! Did our Terry and Kim not hear that? Did our players not hear that? Did they not hear the stand taken for patriotism? Were they deaf? Was Sean McDermott not informed of patriotic fan base? Surely they heard or chose not to hear what might happen to many thousands of Bills fans whose love of the team was now superseded by their disgust for this spectacle and the owners not dealing with it months before. I love Terry and Kim but thought ridiculous their argument that the NFL was “under attack” by President Trump and those disgusted with the league’s non action. NO, Terry and Kim YOU WERE DEAF to a large percentage of your fan base. Deaf to the demographics of Buffalo. Just plain DEAF and it cost you in your pocketbooks. Did our players not hear the chant? Did they not know that many loyal Bills fans would give up their loyalty in disgust? Did they care? Were they as respectful to their fans as their fans have been to them? Of course not. They chose to call attention to themselves. They chose to end a decades old time of reverence for the national anthem. They went from heroes to millionaire self-serving chumps to many including myself. I did give up my Sunday Ticket. I did refuse to watch their games. I refused to buy any more Bills apparel. I am a diehard Bills fan since the days of Jack Kemp, Cookie Gilcrist and the “The Rockpile”. I have cheered my organization through the rough times to the present. Hundreds of Bills players have been my heroes. I have sung the “Shout” song hundreds of times. This is a new season. I am back. It is my hope that the lunkheaded millionaire owners have finally discovered what might happen when they callously allow disrespect for their patriotic paying fans. Perhaps they have all bought hearing aids to help them hear. Perhaps their low TV ratings were a result of deafness. Perhaps Terry and Kim have learned a valuable lesson when they allow their passionate fan base to be disrespected. In any event, I am back. I bought season tickets again. I bought a Josh Allen jersey. I am hoping to spend a long season as a diehard fan again. But, make no mistake, if the Pegulas or the NFL, or Buffalo Bills players are still intent on disrespecting that part of their fan base who place patriotism, and honor ahead of their loyalty to the team, I will surely walk again, get rid of my tickets, burn my Josh Allen jersey and say to myself, “Get me once, shame on you, get me twice, shame on me.”
Cripple Creek Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, tumaro02 said: Thanks for your lecture. Let’s be clear. I have no doubt that the players may have a legal right to kneel. When Colin Kaepernick did his thing in 2016 the owners could have quietly called Colin in and told him, “Hey, you are an employee of the San Francisco 49ers. We applaud your passion about your cause. But, you cannot promote your agenda by calling attention to yourself during a time of reverence that has been set aside for decades for our national anthem and flag wearing the corporate uniform and representing the San Francisco 49ers. We appreciate you however, and will find an appropriate venue for your protest. Do you know Colin that there are tens of thousands of fans here and across the US who view your protest as being disrespectful to our national anthem and flag? Is it fair for you to disrespect them to promote your personal agenda? Are you aware of the financial burden you could create when fans who have supported you and the team for decades stop supporting you and the team by cancelling their premium TV subscriptions and stop buying team apparel and sponsored products and stop coming to games? Many view your protest as being disrespectful to the men and women who have shed their blood to earn and defend your freedom to protest? Do you know many in attendance have served or have sons and daughters right now in harms way who view your actions as disrespectful to their sacrifices? The 49ers obviously did not do that. The NFL obviously did not do that. The Buffalo Bills obviously did not do that with their players. Colin was either not reflective of what his actions might cause or worse just didn’t give a damn. When the 49ers came to Buffalo in 2016 there was raucous boos when he entered the stadium. When he knelt, almost the entire stadium erupted in chants of USA USA USA! Did our Terry and Kim not hear that? Did our players not hear that? Did they not hear the stand taken for patriotism? Were they deaf? Was Sean McDermott not informed of patriotic fan base? Surely they heard or chose not to hear what might happen to many thousands of Bills fans whose love of the team was now superseded by their disgust for this spectacle and the owners not dealing with it months before. I love Terry and Kim but thought ridiculous their argument that the NFL was “under attack” by President Trump and those disgusted with the league’s non action. NO, Terry and Kim YOU WERE DEAF to a large percentage of your fan base. Deaf to the demographics of Buffalo. Just plain DEAF and it cost you in your pocketbooks. Did our players not hear the chant? Did they not know that many loyal Bills fans would give up their loyalty in disgust? Did they care? Were they as respectful to their fans as their fans have been to them? Of course not. They chose to call attention to themselves. They chose to end a decades old time of reverence for the national anthem. They went from heroes to millionaire self-serving chumps to many including myself. I did give up my Sunday Ticket. I did refuse to watch their games. I refused to buy any more Bills apparel. I am a diehard Bills fan since the days of Jack Kemp, Cookie Gilcrist and the “The Rockpile”. I have cheered my organization through the rough times to the present. Hundreds of Bills players have been my heroes. I have sung the “Shout” song hundreds of times. This is a new season. I am back. It is my hope that the lunkheaded millionaire owners have finally discovered what might happen when they callously allow disrespect for their patriotic paying fans. Perhaps they have all bought hearing aids to help them hear. Perhaps their low TV ratings were a result of deafness. Perhaps Terry and Kim have learned a valuable lesson when they allow their passionate fan base to be disrespected. In any event, I am back. I bought season tickets again. I bought a Josh Allen jersey. I am hoping to spend a long season as a diehard fan again. But, make no mistake, if the Pegulas or the NFL, or Buffalo Bills players are still intent on disrespecting that part of their fan base who place patriotism, and honor ahead of their loyalty to the team, I will surely walk again, get rid of my tickets, burn my Josh Allen jersey and say to myself, “Get me once, shame on you, get me twice, shame on me.” If I disagree with you am I less than patriotic? Should I become miffed at the Pegulas if they do as you wish? Should I be as narrow minded and self important as you appear to be?
Kirby Jackson Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 The strangest thing about this is that people honestly believe that it wasn’t effective or he should have picked a different stage. Kaep used the time when the most eyeballs were on him to bring attention to his cause. Whether you like it or not, it had a massive impact. He has gotten a ton of publicity for his cause and raised a lot of money. He put his cause before his own personal gain. Again, like it or not, Kaep’s protest has had a massive impact.
Recommended Posts