purple haze Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 23 minutes ago, Engelwood said: Are you paying to see the players play football or stand like pylons during the national anthem. your analogy would work if they stopped playing and did it but they are playing hard through every snap. It is just the American media that has taken what they were protesting, perceived injustice and mistreatment by police, something that can be debated and if there is an issue be solved and turned it into a debate that has no solution and will make arguments and separate the nation into 2 separate groups. In this case it is about respecting the military vs right to protest........ If you are arguing about that you have turned into a sheep for the media and are missing the point to everything. Unfortunately even the NFL has fallen for it. I don't think you can blame the media. They report news. The protests were news. Then the president takes it up a notch with his comments and misinformation, now they will report that and analyze the various parts of the situation.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: Good thoughts. On the anthem, that goes way back into baseball lore, at least that far back I think. No idea why they started. My best guess would be it signals people to settle down and pay attention the game is about to start. It works well for that because most people figure they have to behave during it so it settles everyone down and gets them paying attention to the field. I personally wouldn't stop playing it in response to this, unless things got very desperate. I think stopping on account of this would do more lasting harm than the kneeling. Hey, Meanie. My favorite sources say you are absolutely correct about the baseball connection. From "The Straight Dope": " this site, (http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/2003-02-28-flagprotest.shtml) had this info:It is generally accepted that its first appearance during a sporting event was the 1918 World Series. To demonstrate major league patriotism, baseball teams had the players march in formation during pre-game military drills while carrying bats on their shoulders. During the seventh-inning stretch of game one, when the band spontaneously began to play the "Star Spangled Banner," the Cubs and Red Sox players stood at attention facing the centerfield flag pole. The crowd sang along and applauded when the singing ended. For those who aren't history buffs, the US entry into WWI in April, 1917 spurred a wave of patriotism across the country - a wave of patriotism with its dark side. President Woodrow Wilson said ""Any man who carries a hyphen about with him*, carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic when he gets ready." German-Americans considered themselves to be good Americans of German extraction or descent, with no love for the rulers left behind. Nevertheless, anti-German hysteria took hold. The German language was forbidden; German newspapers were censored; German books were removed from library shelves. Lynching occurred in the Midwest, beatings elsewhere. Anyway I digress: bottom line, anthems before sporting events initiated during a surge of government-supported patriotism during WWI. 2
ALF Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 As a veteran I don't have a problem with players taking a knee for this cause. I do respect those who are offended. If players are willing to pay a fine for their demonstration that is ok. I don't want the owner to pay it for them though. jmo 1
dwight in philly Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
cba fan Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 On 6/1/2018 at 2:27 PM, ProcessAccepted said: No that's not it ? I would prefer if their issue was what was debated and not the politicized kneel no kneel thing. Players as citizens should have the right to protest. This country and it's Freedoms that have been fought for and won allow us people the right to peaceful protest. How come my employer will fire me if I protest on the job during working hours or on their property at any time?
ColoradoBills Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 37 minutes ago, ALF said: As a veteran I don't have a problem with players taking a knee for this cause. I do respect those who are offended. jmo As a veteran myself, I also take the same position as you do ALF. I say this not thinking my position should or needs to be held in any way higher or more important than any other citizen's. I say that only because some make "veterans" a central point in their personal opinions. There is a lot being said about the people who are protesting and those who oppose said protests. To me it is not about the people but about the ideals that are being argued. I have sympathy for those who perceive that the protests "disrespect" the ideals they believe in. I have empathy for the ideals that those who participate in the protests champion. I have no problem accepting both ideals. I can't make both sides come to an agreement that benefits "most" concerned, but I wish someone could. jmo 1
Wily Dog Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 I am a veteran . The right to protest is inherent in our roots. ( The Boston Tea Party ) in case some of you want to look it up. My service , i would like to think was not to glorify a flag or anthem , it was to defend our freedoms. The freedom to protest is one freedom which every American should defend to his/her death. The intellectual lightweight 4Fer in the White House chose to make the protest political and the NFL bit. MLK and Bobby Kennedy among others paid with their lives for our sacred right to protest. Colin Kaepernick has paid dearly for his just protestations. The NFL has taken the path of ignominy. I am sure that a solution can be worked out if politics can be kept out of the solution. For the rednecks out there , I am a caucasian. 3
Cripple Creek Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, ALF said: As a veteran I don't have a problem with players taking a knee for this cause. I do respect those who are offended. If players are willing to pay a fine for their demonstration that is ok. I don't want the owner to pay it for them though. jmo The league is fining teams, not players.
Wily Dog Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 I do not respect those who are offended by a person taking a knee if they do not know what they are protesting. I will say that most people do not know what the protest is about. 1
BadLandsMeanie Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, ALF said: As a veteran I don't have a problem with players taking a knee for this cause. I do respect those who are offended. If players are willing to pay a fine for their demonstration that is ok. I don't want the owner to pay it for them though. jmo I wish those of us who are annoyed by it, could sign up and have the fines paid to us. I wouldn't mind it all if that happened. I wonder how much money it is? Say I got 100 bucks for every bozo that kneeled down. That would be pretty sweet. I think I am some sort of a dick because that thought actually makes me happy. I would probably even be hollering for more of them to man up and kneel. 1 1
BadLandsMeanie Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Doc Brown said: There were too many raw emotions at the time. Both by the players who protested and the teammates who felt the president took a direct shot at their brothers in the locker room by calling them SOB's who should be fired at a rally in Alabama. I don't know how the teams could've done it any differently. How you do it differently would be to clam down, take some deep breaths, and think about where what you are doing, can lead you. That is very often the difference between someone who does foolish things, and someone who doesn't. Between someone who gets baited, trolled, and owned, and someone who doesn't. In fact I think if you are smart, and have learned something in life, you would know that when you are emotionally upset, that is the time to not act. That is the time to wait and calm down and then think. These guys thought they were big shots and they would show him. That is not what is happening. 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Hey, Meanie. My favorite sources say you are absolutely correct about the baseball connection. From "The Straight Dope": " this site, (http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/2003-02-28-flagprotest.shtml) had this info:It is generally accepted that its first appearance during a sporting event was the 1918 World Series. To demonstrate major league patriotism, baseball teams had the players march in formation during pre-game military drills while carrying bats on their shoulders. During the seventh-inning stretch of game one, when the band spontaneously began to play the "Star Spangled Banner," the Cubs and Red Sox players stood at attention facing the centerfield flag pole. The crowd sang along and applauded when the singing ended. For those who aren't history buffs, the US entry into WWI in April, 1917 spurred a wave of patriotism across the country - a wave of patriotism with its dark side. President Woodrow Wilson said ""Any man who carries a hyphen about with him*, carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic when he gets ready." German-Americans considered themselves to be good Americans of German extraction or descent, with no love for the rulers left behind. Nevertheless, anti-German hysteria took hold. The German language was forbidden; German newspapers were censored; German books were removed from library shelves. Lynching occurred in the Midwest, beatings elsewhere. Anyway I digress: bottom line, anthems before sporting events initiated during a surge of government-supported patriotism during WWI. Thanks Hap! A different time. The marching with bats would seem VERY corny nowadays. Edited June 2, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie
Wily Dog Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 34 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: I wish those of us who are annoyed by it, could sign up and have the fines paid to us. I wouldn't mind it all if that happened. I wonder how much money it is? Say I got 100 bucks for every bozo that kneeled down. That would be pretty sweet. I think I am some sort of a dick because that thought actually makes me happy. I would probably even be hollering for more of them to man up and kneel. You are a person who has NO idea what they were kneeling for. They are kneeling for a basic freedom of justice for ALL. Not just the boneheads that think the "Justice For All" in our pledge was meant for you and not all Americans.
Albwan Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 On 6/1/2018 at 2:49 PM, Buffalo716 said: https://247sports.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/Article/NYC-politician-wants-New-York-Giants-Buffalo-Bills-to-adopt-Jets-anthem-policy-118678936/Amp First. The Bills are the Only team in New York. Second, who the heck does this guy think he is that he can weasel his thoughts and ideas upon the Giants and Bills Let their owners do what they want, don’t try to play some moral high ground you listen to the owners and their rules at work. Freedom of speech, Press, assembly Doesn’t apply lol Seems like this happens ALOT lately
Doc Brown Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 42 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: How you do it differently would be to clam down, take some deep breaths, and think about where what you are doing, can lead you. That is very often the difference between someone who does foolish things, and someone who doesn't. Between someone who gets baited, trolled, and owned, and someone who doesn't. In fact I think if you are smart, and have learned something in life, you would know that when you are emotionally upset, that is the time to not act. That is the time to wait and calm down and then think. These guys thought they were big shots and they would show him. That is not what is happening. Good luck coordinating that with 32 teams within a few days.
BadLandsMeanie Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 24 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Good luck coordinating that with 32 teams within a few days. Exactly. You would need a commissioner who could handle that. They have chosen one who instead is making them gigantic profits. Goodell should be head of NFL accounting. But the nimrod owners don't understand that. And now the owners are not even consistent in backing up their own league plan! So now they will get owned. As many have pointed out this may now become worse instead of better in terms of it being a distraction to the business.
keepthefaith Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Andrew in CA said: I know, my point is all sports should stop playing it, at least for every single game. It loses meaning and is not treated with respect or reflection. Symbols lose their meaning when they become routine. You're plenty respectful, no disrespect taken! Exactly -- the anthem becomes a school bell letting everyone know to get to class on time! It is not about reflection or reverence. You're right that if they stopped it now, it would be seen as a response to these protests, but I think that they should've done this awhile ago. You obviously have never been to a Chicago Blackhawks game where the anthem is sung by this guy. It's amazing. Every. Single. Game. Edited June 2, 2018 by keepthefaith
BadLandsMeanie Posted June 2, 2018 Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Wily Dog said: You are a person who has NO idea what they were kneeling for. They are kneeling for a basic freedom of justice for ALL. Not just the boneheads that think the "Justice For All" in our pledge was meant for you and not all Americans. Well in fairness I think their message has been quite muddled. But i do think I have the basic idea. My post was more in the way of pointing out, in an absurd way, the essential ridiculousness of the NFL fining teams as a punitive measure. They are fining themselves. Say I get stopped for speeding I have to pay a ticket, but I pay it to myself. Geeze I had to pay 150 bucks! I take it from my wallet and put it in my piggy bank. That isn't too far from what they are doing.
BadLandsMeanie Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 Sample from the Atlanta Falcons Team DJ playlist who shared 18 of his best pump up songs that the team likes at practice. I'mma have the whole set cryingHave the police like "man down"Spraying roundsTalk of the townA K clip walking aroundBussin the Glock bussin the K
Cripple Creek Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said: Exactly. You would need a commissioner who could handle that. They have chosen one who instead is making them gigantic profits. Goodell should be head of NFL accounting. But the nimrod owners don't understand that. And now the owners are not even consistent in backing up their own league plan! So now they will get owned. As many have pointed out this may now become worse instead of better in terms of it being a distraction to the business. Forget about the fact that they had over a year, not days. This was the best solution they could come up with. 1
Andrew in CA Posted June 3, 2018 Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, keepthefaith said: You obviously have never been to a Chicago Blackhawks game where the anthem is sung by this guy. It's amazing. Every. Single. Game. A) F the blackhawks, i don't watch garbage teams, that needs to be said off the bat. ? B) that's lovely, but i don't think it's appropriate for this to be happening at every single sporting event around the country every day. It diminishes the symbolism and importance of the anthem.
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