White Linen Posted May 29, 2018 Posted May 29, 2018 27 minutes ago, MJS said: Getting better at other coaching aspects allows you to focus on game management. If your head is spinning with all of your responsibilities, it doesn't matter if you have instinct or not. Yeah, I think that's certainly part of it. I still think you're underestimating the instinct aspect. I liken it to speed - you can't learn speed. You can get faster but there's a natural talent to fast people. I think quick thinking is a trait.
John from Riverside Posted May 29, 2018 Posted May 29, 2018 14 minutes ago, mushypeaches said: Couldn't disagree more. The circumstances of the team have little correlation to McDermott's approach to game day management. Yes, there are factors that would lean toward a more conservative approach, which you've noted, but I don't think the team's success in 2017 had much to do with McDermott's game management, and in many cases, they had success DESPITE some very questionable and probably overly conservative in-game decisions. Bill Belichick has won 5 SB's. Does he get the benefit of the doubt for benching Malcolm Butler in the last one, even though that possibly cost his team the game? He does not. My point is that McDermott has a lot to improve upon in this area and it will be a big factor in whether he can build a perennial playoff contender or whether we just saw his ceiling as a coach. Post lost all credibility in the first sentence.
MJS Posted May 29, 2018 Posted May 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, White Linen said: Yeah, I think that's certainly part of it. I still think you're underestimating the instinct aspect. I liken it to speed - you can't learn speed. You can get faster but there's a natural talent to fast people. I think quick thinking is a trait. I never said instinct isn't important. It IS important. And it is like speed. If a player has to focus on a complex scheme because they are confused by it, it doesn't matter how fast they are. McDermott may have super awesome instincts, but if his focus is elsewhere that doesn't matter. My point is, he may have struggled for reasons other than having instincts for game management. He has a lot on his plate, so who knows?
NewEra Posted May 29, 2018 Posted May 29, 2018 It’s tough to be aggressive when you have zero confidence in your QB. Hopefully that changes as our QB play gets better
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted May 29, 2018 Posted May 29, 2018 3 things that I believe may have attributed to that: 1) He's a defensive minded HC. Being aggressive isn't necessarily exclusive to the offensive side of the ball, but it's usually what you think of when talk about aggressiveness. "Keeping your foot on the gas", "stepping on their throats", etc. are phrases that refer to the offense. 2) He was a rookie HC. Granted there have been more aggressive rookie HCs in the past, but if you comibine that with his defensive background, you kind of understand why he might not have been as aggressive on offense as others. IMO, a lot of what we saw on offense was McDermott delegating to his OC, as he gets more acclimated with being HC. 3) Talent on offense. When you think of aggressiveness in offense, you think of a potent passing attack. In 3 years with Taylor at QB, that was never the case, for long stretches at least. They were efficient more so than proficient, even with Sammy and Woods. Of course our run game being a major strength played into that, but last year, there weren't many weapons in the passing game. Shady and Clay were the top 2 pass catchers last year. When your RB and TE lead the team in receptions, getting aggressive would probably backfire more often than it would yield a reward.
John from Riverside Posted May 29, 2018 Posted May 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said: 3 things that I believe may have attributed to that: 1) He's a defensive minded HC. Being aggressive isn't necessarily exclusive to the offensive side of the ball, but it's usually what you think of when talk about aggressiveness. "Keeping your foot on the gas", "stepping on their throats", etc. are phrases that refer to the offense. 2) He was a rookie HC. Granted there have been more aggressive rookie HCs in the past, but if you comibine that with his defensive background, you kind of understand why he might not have been as aggressive on offense as others. IMO, a lot of what we saw on offense was McDermott delegating to his OC, as he gets more acclimated with being HC. 3) Talent on offense. When you think of aggressiveness in offense, you think of a potent passing attack. In 3 years with Taylor at QB, that was never the case, for long stretches at least. They were efficient more so than proficient, even with Sammy and Woods. Of course our run game being a major strength played into that, but last year, there weren't many weapons in the passing game. Shady and Clay were the top 2 pass catchers last year. When your RB and TE lead the team in receptions, getting aggressive would probably backfire more often than it would yield a reward. Exactly
artmalibu Posted May 29, 2018 Posted May 29, 2018 I too thought the game management was bad at points last year. Lucky it did not burn them. If McDermott practices what he preaches we wont see more of the same. I feel that he was pretty tough on himself even-tho when asked about it after the game he never came out and said he screwed the pooch.
White Linen Posted May 29, 2018 Posted May 29, 2018 45 minutes ago, MJS said: I never said instinct isn't important. It IS important. And it is like speed. If a player has to focus on a complex scheme because they are confused by it, it doesn't matter how fast they are. McDermott may have super awesome instincts, but if his focus is elsewhere that doesn't matter. My point is, he may have struggled for reasons other than having instincts for game management. He has a lot on his plate, so who knows? I agree that can also be a part of it. With experience a better flow in terms of game time readiness should happen.
ColdFront_USAF Posted May 29, 2018 Posted May 29, 2018 While I generally agree, the aggressiveness you want is situational. The coaches you named, guys like Tomlin and Peyton, those guys have first ballot HOF quarterbacks on their rosters. They have for a long time now. It's easy to make an aggressive decision when you know your qb gives you an unusually high handle of success. Last year we had Tyrod Taylor, a guy who often checked it down, didn't take chances with the football, and was generally struggling in the passing game. If we had attempted more 4th downs, we would have seen more 3 yard passes to Tolbert.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 29, 2018 Posted May 29, 2018 ...maybe when he's firmly planted on his "sea legs",his conservative approach will change....still think he did a great job for a 1st year HC (a/k/a ROOKIE himself).......he'll grow confidence as he moves ahead IMO.....I think the McCarron kid will prove to be a steady Eddie, efficient game manager that can move the chains.....at the same time, you don't draft a kid like Allen with his size and arm to play "Dopey Dickie Jauron Ball".....if that is McD's path, then as they say in Houston, "we've got a problem"......
Saxum Posted May 29, 2018 Posted May 29, 2018 5 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: Many of the more aggressive teams are lead by offensive guys and that makes a difference. I expect him him to get better at some things like Timeouts and challenges, but I expect little change in the defensive minded HC view on going for it versus punting because their strength is defense And defending the length of the field. This is where I see Coach McD's weakness is - on offense. He brought in coaches he was comfortable with but was not able to evaluate them well hence he ended replacing a bunch after getting rid of of some good ones. Being a defense minded coach he needed to lean on offense coaches and often that led to disaster like P5t5rman's start in SD. I expect him to be more aggressive on defense this year but same on offense.
ganesh Posted May 30, 2018 Posted May 30, 2018 6 hours ago, MJS said: The Bills of last season were an incredibly talent deficient team that overachieved. You can only do so much with a team like that. I imagine this season will be similar. Yes, McDermott can get better at game and clock management. I think he will. But getting more talent on the field will allow for more aggressive strategy, in my opinion. Bingo. The HC that the OP talks about all have franchise QBs and top talent defense. When you have such a team, then you can take more risks and hence more rewards!
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 30, 2018 Posted May 30, 2018 McDermott is a very smart guy who gives off the perception that he will start with himself for ways to improve. I have no doubt as he get more comfortable being the HC he will not repeat some of the same choices during games.
Lfod Posted May 30, 2018 Posted May 30, 2018 I am to much of a fan of McDermott to entertain doubt right now. He met and exceeded my expectations in his first season as a head coach. A few of the players dissapointed me but they are not Bills anymore. Now it's season #2 and I have my personal expectations set just a little bit higher. I'm just waiting to see if he can deliver again. I have confidence if he will.
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted May 30, 2018 Posted May 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said: 3 things that I believe may have attributed to that: 1) He's a defensive minded HC. Being aggressive isn't necessarily exclusive to the offensive side of the ball, but it's usually what you think of when talk about aggressiveness. "Keeping your foot on the gas", "stepping on their throats", etc. are phrases that refer to the offense. 2) He was a rookie HC. Granted there have been more aggressive rookie HCs in the past, but if you comibine that with his defensive background, you kind of understand why he might not have been as aggressive on offense as others. IMO, a lot of what we saw on offense was McDermott delegating to his OC, as he gets more acclimated with being HC. 3) Talent on offense. When you think of aggressiveness in offense, you think of a potent passing attack. In 3 years with Taylor at QB, that was never the case, for long stretches at least. They were efficient more so than proficient, even with Sammy and Woods. Of course our run game being a major strength played into that, but last year, there weren't many weapons in the passing game. Shady and Clay were the top 2 pass catchers last year. When your RB and TE lead the team in receptions, getting aggressive would probably backfire more often than it would yield a reward. I agree with points #2 and 3 wholeheartedly. Your first point is the one I think McD needs to guard against in the future. He is a defensive minded coach, but there are times that call for aggressiveness on offense. The Pats would be Super Bowl champs if Doug Pedersen wasn’t ultra aggressive. The 2017 version of McD was handcuffed by a lack of offensive talent. The 2018 edition looks much the same. However, if Allen develops into a franchise QB, McD will be afforded more opportunities to coach aggressively. McD’s 2017 coaching job was absolutely brilliant, but passive coaching can prevent teams from reaching the next level. Just ask Andy Reid or Marty Schottenheimer (ultra conservative coaches) how their playoff careers turned out. I trust that McDermott will make the proper adjustments if/when Allen becomes a franchise QB, but they will need to be made to take the next step.
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted May 30, 2018 Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: I agree with points #2 and 3 wholeheartedly. Your first point is the one I think McD needs to guard against in the future. He is a defensive minded coach, but there are times that call for aggressiveness on offense. The Pats would be Super Bowl champs if Doug Pedersen wasn’t ultra aggressive. The 2017 version of McD was handcuffed by a lack of offensive talent. The 2018 edition looks much the same. However, if Allen develops into a franchise QB, McD will be afforded more opportunities to coach aggressively. McD’s 2017 coaching job was absolutely brilliant, but passive coaching can prevent teams from reaching the next level. Just ask Andy Reid or Marty Schottenheimer (ultra conservative coaches) how their playoff careers turned out. I trust that McDermott will make the proper adjustments if/when Allen becomes a franchise QB, but they will need to be made to take the next step. You're right. All I'm saying is that if you combine those 3 things, you understand why he wasn't more aggressive. Considering the talent, and his lack of experience running the show, you would think that a coach would lean more on what he knows best, not the other way around. I think it's important to remember that it was year one for him, so there's nothing to compare it to. Unfortunately, this season looks to be much more of the "rebuilding" year than last year was, and the final record may fall short of 9-7 (which I've accepted; this team is heading in the right direction). If the offense isn't as good or any better this year, we may see even more conservativeness. On paper, the defense is better than it was last year, while the offense may take a step back. All depends on QB play and O-line. Leaning on the defense a bit more is probably going to be a better path to wins, than being more aggressive on offense. Then, we'll revisit this thread, and start to wonder if McDermott is DJ 2.0, even though it may just be temporary and for good reason. Edited May 30, 2018 by Drunken Pygmy Goat Stupid auto correct
BritBill Posted May 30, 2018 Posted May 30, 2018 18 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: I do not expect this year to be to much different unless the defense is even better and/or Daboll instills confidence with the offense and a QB that can make the plays when needed. Once we get that - then he can afford to be more aggressive. Last year they were a miserable 2 of 15 on 4th downs, but people want them to go for it more? Being aggressive is great when you have the right team built up - for the Bills last year - I think being conservative won them more games than if they had tried to be more aggressive. I agree. Out of interest, of the 15 times McDermott elected to go for it on 4th down, what was the distance to go? Also, what was the play call by the OC whose name I've forgotten probably due to the insomnia he induced? There must have been a point when McD thought is there a point of going for it knowing the offense and co-ordinator weren't up to getting the job done? Game management was an aspect of McD's coaching which wasn't as high a standard as other parts. I'm not worried about it. I will be if there's no sign of improvement this season.
simpleman Posted May 30, 2018 Posted May 30, 2018 18 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Here is my elaboration - 1st year head coach - We let go nearly every high priced core player for draft picks so the team was devoid of talent DESPITE all this.....this coaching staff found a way to win enough games to make its first playoffs in 17 years They did pretty well given the circumstances. What they were doing worked and they deserve the benefit of the doubt. I'm sorry. In the real world, with real consequences, you don't get away with directly causing a problem and then get to be rewarded with the excuse that you did pretty well considering all the problems you directly caused. Only in the gullible "fake news" believer's world do you get away with this. And at this point, we don't even know yet the actual value of those draft picks he gutted nearly every core player for. And we will not know for some time . It is way too early for any Kudos for him and his actions.
Domdab99 Posted May 30, 2018 Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) He needs to look at what Doug Pederson did in the Super Bowl and grow some balls. Seriously, if the Bills didn't miraculously win that Colts game after McD punted with 4 minutes left in OT, I'd still be calling for his head. A lot of you would be, too. Edited May 30, 2018 by Domdab99
John from Riverside Posted May 30, 2018 Posted May 30, 2018 31 minutes ago, simpleman said: I'm sorry. In the real world, with real consequences, you don't get away with directly causing a problem and then get to be rewarded with the excuse that you did pretty well considering all the problems you directly caused. Only in the gullible "fake news" believer's world do you get away with this. And at this point, we don't even know yet the actual value of those draft picks he gutted nearly every core player for. And we will not know for some time . It is way too early for any Kudos for him and his actions. I am confused by this post we DO know the results of that action as we made the playoffs mare you talking about evaluating McD in future years?
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