Jerk move?

[Augie]

A jerk move would be NOT calling a kid out like that. This is mostly about learning to get through life. Sports are secondary.  This kid sounds like he has a lot to learn, and you did what you could. 

[Just Jack]

3 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 A lot of disappointed players including 4 seniors who lost their opportunity to play their final game on our home field.

 

Maybe those players will take him out behind the cafeteria and "ask him how his grandfather is doing"

 

[SinceThe70s]

 He lied, you exposed it without resorting to an unfounded accusation, I'm impressed. 

 

He deserved it. He let down his teammates and the other team by causing the forfeit. 

 

The fact that he's not a senior and you risked losing a good player in a troubled program tells me that you'd had it with turning a blind eye to his antics. Body count aside you're probably better off without him.

 

 

[Mike in Horseheads]

I think that well done sir!

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

5 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

I know.  I still feel just a little bit bad about it though.

 

 

?

 

Fair point.  Like I said, I don’t feel great about what I did but I couldn’t resist.

 

One thing I failed to mention is that we had to forfeit our final game.  My Athletic Director’s rule for lacrosse is that we have to forfeit if our roster drops below 13.  He says it’s not safe to play the games with such low numbers.  He would have made our 13th player.  A lot of disappointed players including 4 seniors who lost their opportunity to play their final game on our home field.

 

Screw that punk. If his parents can’t teach him about consequences, glad someone can. 

[mrags]

You did well. 

 

When you speak to him in the future when/if he wants to come back next year (unless he’s a senior) you can set him straight that you won’t tolerate it anymore. He’s either on the team and committed or he’s not and can find something else to do with his time. 

 

If he’s a senior or doesn’t ask to come back in the future, hopefully you taught him a lesson. chances are you didn’t because kids now days are little pieces of trash that only care about themselves. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

7 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

So I coach a varsity lacrosse team here in Vermont.  I have a player who is one of my better players, but he is very immature, is a horrible student which makes him ineligible frequently, and he lies all the time to get out of practice.  

 

Up until now I have just ignored it.  I don’t have the numbers to bench him when he does show, and I don’t think he has the best role models at home.  He’s generally a pretty decent kid so I let him slide.  If I confronted him he’d probably just quit.

 

Anyway, yesterday (sat) was our final game of the season.  I was already low on numbers with a couple kids injured.  He texted me a few hours before the bus was supposed to leave and said that his grandfather had emergency surgery, and that he had to drive down alone to NY to be with him in the hospital because his parents couldn’t make it down there right away.  I didn’t question him, and just wished him and his grandfather the best.  Even though, deep down, I suspected that he was full of crap.

 

I have a Facebook page set up to communicate with my players and parents, and this morning I noticed that he posted a picture of he and his friend trout fishing (caught some nice brookies).  I commented on his photo “You’ll have to let me know your secret spot is, Pseudonym Paul.  I hope your grandfather is on the mend.  You’re a good kid for going down to support him in his time of need.”  

 

Either a nice comment or trap set ?

 

I went out and mowed the lawn, and when I came back inside I checked my FB.  Sure as hell, the next comment below mine is from his mother.  “What the hell is going on, Pseudonymn Paul?!?!  What is wrong with Papa?  You didn’t go to NY...you had a bonfire with your friends last night in my backyard!!”

 

I kinda feel guilty, but I kinda feel like he had it coming.  Jerk move?

 

 

 

Nope, boot him, obviously he only cares about himself and maybe This will wake him up, if not oh well.

 

 

7 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

I know.  I still feel just a little bit bad about it though.

 

 

?

 

Fair point.  Like I said, I don’t feel great about what I did but I couldn’t resist.

 

One thing I failed to mention is that we had to forfeit our final game.  My Athletic Director’s rule for lacrosse is that we have to forfeit if our roster drops below 13.  He says it’s not safe to play the games with such low numbers.  He would have made our 13th player.  A lot of disappointed players including 4 seniors who lost their opportunity to play their final game on our home field.

 

I would feel great about it, I don't have time for bull $#!t and people who peddle it. Either get with the program or get out.

 

 

[Boca BIlls]

Watch yourself buddy, you see what these kids do anymore and that kid sounds like trouble.

[BringBackFergy]

Certainly not. Well done JH. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

I think it is a jerk move.  Social media is a sewer.

 

Yeah, the kid deserved it... But discretion is better part of valor.

 

You aren't saving the kid... And the parent chiming in ain't helping either.  He won't be shamed into good behavior... The mother seems clueless.

 

Yeah... I get the trend.  Dude good, needs structure and square his life away.

 

Pick and choose your battles.

 

Like John C said, prog is a hot mess anyway.  How much worse can it be without him.

 

You enable him more playing him.

 

I guess I am in the minority on this one, w/Boyst. No need to instigate.

 

 

 

 

[Tony P]

Just my opinion:

 

Regardless of the numbers situation you've been facing, you should have addressed the issues with this kid as soon as they started. By letting him get away with disrespecting the game, you and his teammates, you inadvertently approved his behavior. Just because he was one of your better players, it shouldn't excuse the fact that he was dishonest and was disregarding his obligations.

 

I guess I'm saying that by not addressing the bad behavior immediately, it grew to the point where he felt he could blow-off the last game of the season and let his teammates down by forcing a forfeit.

 

You would have been better confronting him early on. If he walked, he walked. Or maybe, he would have somehow realized his mistakes, grown up a little bit and committed to the team.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

So I coach a varsity lacrosse team here in Vermont.  I have a player who is one of my better players, but he is very immature, is a horrible student which makes him ineligible frequently, and he lies all the time to get out of practice.  

 

Up until now I have just ignored it.  I don’t have the numbers to bench him when he does show, and I don’t think he has the best role models at home.  He’s generally a pretty decent kid so I let him slide.  If I confronted him he’d probably just quit.

 

Anyway, yesterday (sat) was our final game of the season.  I was already low on numbers with a couple kids injured.  He texted me a few hours before the bus was supposed to leave and said that his grandfather had emergency surgery, and that he had to drive down alone to NY to be with him in the hospital because his parents couldn’t make it down there right away.  I didn’t question him, and just wished him and his grandfather the best.  Even though, deep down, I suspected that he was full of crap.

 

I have a Facebook page set up to communicate with my players and parents, and this morning I noticed that he posted a picture of he and his friend trout fishing (caught some nice brookies).  I commented on his photo “You’ll have to let me know your secret spot is, Pseudonym Paul.  I hope your grandfather is on the mend.  You’re a good kid for going down to support him in his time of need.”  

 

Either a nice comment or trap set ?

 

I went out and mowed the lawn, and when I came back inside I checked my FB.  Sure as hell, the next comment below mine is from his mother.  “What the hell is going on, Pseudonymn Paul?!?!  What is wrong with Papa?  You didn’t go to NY...you had a bonfire with your friends last night in my backyard!!”

 

I kinda feel guilty, but I kinda feel like he had it coming.  Jerk move?

 

Nope, Busted Fair and Square. 

 

IMHO you might consider two things:

1) the impact of letting this kid slide on the other kids, who don't lie and who do pass up trout fishing and bonfires for lacrosse games and practice.

2) the impact on the kid - he thinks he's so smart and he's pulling the wool over your eyes.  it's actually doing him a favor to let him know that you see what's going on far more clearly than he thinks you do.

 

You might consider sitting him down post-season and talking to him - not "confront", just praise his potential and what more he could achieve if he were able to practice and play more regularly, ask if he'd like to talk about what's between him and doing better in school since he's obviously a smart kid (who can craft creative stories) - obviously depends on what the school offers in the way of tutoring etc.  Talk again pre-season.  Then set up a uniform standard for # practices and games that can be missed and consequences, and stick to it.

 

I know you didn't ask, sorry!

[ExiledInIllinois]

I would say trout fishing and bonfires > a crappy lacrosse team.

 

Teach a man to fish... Build a fire... Or follow the group sports think.

 

Yeah... He should have told you straight up, life is more than silly games.  But, nobody would understand.  It ain't like he will be star Joe Lax.  Even if he goes to school.  Costs my son a grand a year to play club LAX @ Iowa.

 

Dude had his priorities straight.  Not knocking the game.  But sports ain't the savior.  It's the leech in the room vs. Academics.  Unfortunately, this kid is terrible in Academics.  Yeah get into sports!

 

No... Learn how to fish, build a bonfire.

 

I will play the counter-point here.  ?

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, mrags said:

You did well. 

 

When you speak to him in the future when/if he wants to come back next year (unless he’s a senior) you can set him straight that you won’t tolerate it anymore. He’s either on the team and committed or he’s not and can find something else to do with his time. 

 

If he’s a senior or doesn’t ask to come back in the future, hopefully you taught him a lesson. chances are you didn’t because kids now days are little pieces of trash that only care about themselves. 

 

Disagree on the general "kids are pieces of trash".  Think your profession may skew your viewpoint.  I have the privilege to know lots of good kids, really good kids.  Kind, caring, generous.  Even just little things- watched neighbor's kid pulling their recycling bin up our driveway to put away, saw how careful he was not to hit our cars (he didn't know I was watching from inside).  I volunteer at kids school in service capacity, struggle with the system we use, but kids always polite and roll their eyes only after they walk out the door.

But you're Right On! some kids are, and it's because they think they're smarter than everyone around them and are fooling their teachers, coaches, and friends.  I think it's healthy to let them know "ah actually, no, not fooled"

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Disagree on the general "kids are pieces of trash".  Think your profession may skew your viewpoint.  I have the privilege to know lots of good kids, really good kids.  Kind, caring, generous.  Even just little things- watched neighbor's kid pulling their recycling bin up our driveway to put away, saw how careful he was not to hit our cars (he didn't know I was watching from inside).  I volunteer at kids school in service capacity, struggle with the system we use, but kids always polite and roll their eyes only after they walk out the door.

But you're right on some kids are, and it's because they think they're smarter than everyone around them and are fooling their teachers, coaches, and friends.  I think it's healthy to let them know "ah actually, no, not fooled"

Yeah... He should have just been a man and not pull stuff so Hammersticks has to go all passive aggressive... Tell him straight up, he values trout fishing and bonfires more than the LAX.

 

Nothing wrong with that.  But judging from his Mama getting on FB... I can see why he can't be straight up.

[BarleyNY]

11 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

 He lied, you exposed it without resorting to an unfounded accusation, I'm impressed. 

 

He deserved it. He let down his teammates and the other team by causing the forfeit. 

 

The fact that he's not a senior and you risked losing a good player in a troubled program tells me that you'd had it with turning a blind eye to his antics. Body count aside you're probably better off without him.

 

 

 

Yup. Not a jerk move at all. You simply took him at his word and acted accordingly.  Nothing wrong with that in the least. 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

48 minutes ago, Tony P said:

Just my opinion:

 

Regardless of the numbers situation you've been facing, you should have addressed the issues with this kid as soon as they started. By letting him get away with disrespecting the game, you and his teammates, you inadvertently approved his behavior. Just because he was one of your better players, it shouldn't excuse the fact that he was dishonest and was disregarding his obligations.

 

I guess I'm saying that by not addressing the bad behavior immediately, it grew to the point where he felt he could blow-off the last game of the season and let his teammates down by forcing a forfeit.

 

You would have been better confronting him early on. If he walked, he walked. Or maybe, he would have somehow realized his mistakes, grown up a little bit and committed to the team.

 

I wish I could have confronted him earlier, but I never had any grounds to do so.  His lies to get out of practice usually were “coach, I’ve been throwing up all night so I had to stay home from school.”  Then I would have his friends/teammates tell me that he was out playing basketball when he was supposed to have school.  I had no proof other than heresay, so I never had a solid reason to confront him.  His parents didn’t give a crap that he was missing school, and he was probably lying to them too.  I couldn’t call his parents to verify.  

 

The other one he used often was “coach, I have a dentist appointment at 5:15 (we practice 5-7), and I’m probably going to have some work done so I won’t be able to make it to practice.”  Now, I found it interesting that anyone would have a doctor/dentist appointment that late in the day.  I went to my AD and ran it by him, and he said that there are some providers in the county that accepted Medicaid and took appointments into the early evening due to the volume of patients they need to see.  Again, his “friends” would tell he was lying and skipping practice, but what was I supposed to do?  Call his parents and confirm that he actually had a dentist/doctor appointment?  I don’t think so.

 

The thing is, I have had several conversations with him about his “commitment to the team” and carefully call into question his frequent absence from practice and the impact on the team.  He would always just shrug it off.  “Sorry coach, it has been a rough semester and I have been sick a lot.”  He actually is a pretty charismatic kid.  Probably a budding sociopath.

 

I actually have pretty strict policies about missing practice/games, but this kid always found ways to skirt around them.  For example, there are only four acceptable reasons to miss practice; you’re sick and cannot attend school, family emergency, academic obligation (e.g., honor society induction), or significant religious committment (e.g., first communion).  Any “no call-no show” regardless of the excuse resulted in loss of playing time.  I adhered to that very closely.

 

This kid just always managed to get around the rules in the handbook.  

[ExiledInIllinois]

7 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Yup. Not a jerk move at all. You simply took him at his word and acted accordingly.  Nothing wrong with that in the least. 

He knew the kid was lying.  Who sends a high schooler... Under 18 on a restricted license to The City from VT on their own to visit sick grandfather.

 

Hope you have good auto insurance.

 

It was a passive agressive jerk move.

 

 

Sorry for being harsh Hamnetsticks, not a reflection on you.  I may have done same... BUT, wouldn't have pulled the trigger?  Who knows?

Edited May 28, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[Saxum]

15 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I kinda feel guilty, but I kinda feel like he had it coming.  Jerk move?

 

No. I am sure his teammates had heard that he did not play for team and it hurts morale. You did right thing.

[Happy]

Not a jerk move at all.  The kid lied, came up with an excuse he couldn't possibly get away with, and paid the price.  Seems fair to me.