SouthNYfan Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: And are those the ones running their mouth or acting like fools? Sherman is shrewd af and does his schtick as his brand. Nothing else. Dude is a genius and makes his stuff work. You made a general statement about everybody in the NFL being dumb.
boyst Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown. so enjoy your violation of the US flag code Learn2law and enjoy freedom Btw. What's the punishment for breaking this code? Enjoy SCOTUS.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: Representations of the flag aren't violations of the flag act, plus it was a supreme Court case that overruled that code as illegsl Overruled the Flag Code? (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "flag act", as Flag Code is what I stated in my post you're replying to.) Not as far as I know, but I'll be happy to entertain a link showing the contrary. The Supreme Court struct down "Criminal penalties for certain acts of desecration to the flag" contained in the Flag Protection Act of 1989 (Oct. 28, 1989). But the Flag Code is still part of the US Code as guidance to patriotic citizens on how to show proper respect to the flag of our country. And yes, representations of the flag on clothing and disposable items are violations of the US Flag Code: §176. Respect for flag No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor. (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property. (b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise. (c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free. (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general. (e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way. (f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling. (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature. (h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything. (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. 2
NoSaint Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Okay well if I want to see a display of patriotism why would I go to a sporting event? They have nothing to do with each other at all. Like if every time I went to Tim Hortons they made me say the pledge of allegiance before buying my coffee, I suppose that would be their prerogative, but I would sure think it was stupid. And has anyone who thinks these protests are disrespectful donated time or money to veterans' causes? If demanding professional athletes stand for the anthem is the full extent of your activism, I would suggest putting your money where your mouth is. Ding ding ding.... those saying tvey they don’t want politics at sporting events so you better stand and sing the anthem are just saying they don’t want anything challenging their own politics at the event. The anthem is inherently very political and totally unnecessary- but they will fight to keep it there.
MAJBobby Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: Learn2law and enjoy freedom Btw. What's the punishment for breaking this code? Enjoy SCOTUS. Disrepect that Flag Monday. 1
boyst Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, NoSaint said: Ding ding ding.... those saying tvey they don’t want politics at sporting events so you better stand and sing the anthem are just saying they don’t want anything challenging their own politics at the event. The anthem is inherently very political and totally unnecessary- but they will fight to keep it there. In 89 all of that was essentially struck down by SCOTUS. Basically, and imo unfortunately, those laws are now antiquated relics of decorum much of this country has lost but the flag code was neutered and rendered useless with that verdict. 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Disrepect that Flag Monday. I live in Canada, dumdum
BringBackOrton Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Ding ding ding.... those saying tvey they don’t want politics at sporting events so you better stand and sing the anthem are just saying they don’t want anything challenging their own politics at the event. The anthem is inherently very political and totally unnecessary- but they will fight to keep it there. The anthem somehow isn't a big problem in the NBA, or NHL, or MLB.
MAJBobby Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, Boyst62 said: In 89 all of that was essentially struck down by SCOTUS. Basically, and imo unfortunately, those laws are now antiquated relics of decorum much of this country has lost but the flag code was neutered and rendered useless with that verdict. I live in Canada, dumdum Even more Hypocritical
HappyDays Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 29 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: It doesn't matter how many "would" but how many "could." Couldn't they all? Couldn't Merrill Lynch put that in their employee contracts? So if they could, then this is a non-point. I disagree. They could obligate it if they wanted, but I'm going to say that it's dumb. I don't think forced patriotism is what America stands for. We weren't founded on symbols and songs, we were founded on the notion of individual freedoms. That's just my take on it. I respect people who feel the anthem is important, but I wish they could likewise respect the people that don't. 1
NoSaint Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, Boyst62 said: In 89 all of that was essentially struck down by SCOTUS. Basically, and imo unfortunately, those laws are now antiquated relics of decorum much of this country has lost but the flag code was neutered and rendered useless with that verdict. I live in Canada, dumdum I’m not arguing any flag code related points. Simply that it’s silly to pretend the status quo wasn’t already political. Though regardless the teeth in the code- if the argument is players must respect the flag but the person espousing that argument doesn’t follow the same codes of respect - it’s a tiny bit hypocritical, no? Not that I think either should be punished but conversationally we can agree it’s a bit of a jerk move to cite it against someone else but not follow it yourself? 1
BringBackOrton Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, HappyDays said: I disagree. They could obligate it if they wanted, but I'm going to say that it's dumb. I don't think forced patriotism is what America stands for. We weren't founded on symbols and songs, we were founded on the notion of individual freedoms. That's just my take on it. I respect people who feel the anthem is important, but I wish they could likewise respect the people that don't. This is all that matters.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: Learn2law and enjoy freedom Btw. What's the punishment for breaking this code? Enjoy SCOTUS. There's a distinction between "overturning the Flag Code" and overturning penalties for violating it. The Flag Code, as guidance for patriotic behavior that respects the US Flag, is still there. There are no longer penalties for burning a flag, or dropping it to the ground and trampling on it, or printing the flag on a plate, napkin, or underwear - or kneeling during the National Anthem for that matter - the point stands that these are all violations of the Code that provides guidance on how to to respect our Flag.
LABILLBACKER Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Jeetz1231 said: I know I am probably in the minority, but I am a veteran of the US military and I don't personally feel like the kneeling is disrespectful to the flag or my brothers and sisters who served and are still serving. If anything it shows the freedoms we have in this country as individuals. The protest is for racial injustice when dealing with police, they are using their right to peaceful protest. I personally would prefer that they stood for the anthem, but at the end of the day we live in a country that gives them the right to kneel for the anthem, and that is what makes this country great. well said and so true....its called the 1st amendment!
HappyDays Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 26 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Kaep also did other things to taint the message. The voting thing, the pig socks. If his goal was peaceful protest to raise awareness without being disrespectful, he went about it the wrong way and inflamed people against him. Bad move I definitely agree with that. He lost a lot of people when he wore those socks. I thought his protest was meant to be respectful but he turned it inflammatory for no reason. 1
DC Tom Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) Here's a solution: let players make their own choice. Because what's more un-American: kneeling during the anthem, or forcing people to stand during the anthem? Edit: I should add that of course they should be punished for it. Not severely, just a nominal fine. Just because: if it's permitted, then it's not a protest. Edited May 25, 2018 by DC Tom 2
Marv's Neighbor Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Jeetz1231 said: I know I am probably in the minority, but I am a veteran of the US military and I don't personally feel like the kneeling is disrespectful to the flag or my brothers and sisters who served and are still serving. If anything it shows the freedoms we have in this country as individuals. The protest is for racial injustice when dealing with police, they are using their right to peaceful protest. I personally would prefer that they stood for the anthem, but at the end of the day we live in a country that gives them the right to kneel for the anthem, and that is what makes this country great. .The "solution" is, there is no Solution! The league screwed up by not removing this option when it first began. People will always have their own "rights" and feelings BUT, as with any other job, they should be left outside the work place. If you want to kneel, or hold your hands up, etc., do it on your own time, away from the work place. Your contract and team status demand that you properly represent your team, not your own individual views, during the time that the team is paying you. 1
Magox Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said: well said and so true....its called the 1st amendment! The first amendment in this case does not apply. Quote The right to freedom of speech is fundamental and is one of our most cherished rights, yet it is not absolute. Federal free speech protections apply only to the government. The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, for example, does not apply to private employers. Generally speaking, private sector employees are not entitled to First Amendment free speech protection, even when speaking about job-related matters in the course of their employment duties results in adverse employment action. For example, employers can prohibit employees from engaging in speech during work time that is not work-related. Similarly, employers must take action against employees who engage in speech that would violate an anti-harassment policy or create a hostile work environment, and private employers have every right to regulate or prohibit any category of “unprotected” speech such as “fighting words,” offensive speech or obscenity. For those of you making the first amendment argument, you have no case. 1
BringBackOrton Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, DC Tom said: Here's a solution: let players make their own choice. Because what's more un-American: kneeling during the anthem, or forcing people to stand during the anthem? Nothing is more American than a business operating in any way that they deem fit. 1 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: In 89 all of that was essentially struck down by SCOTUS. Basically, and imo unfortunately, those laws are now antiquated relics of decorum much of this country has lost but the flag code was neutered and rendered useless with that verdict. I live in Canada Didn't know there was a town of that name in NC Broader general principle: are any Federal Codes (CFR, code of Federal Regulations) without explicit penalties useless? There are actually a lot of them - for example there's a lot of CFR about how to be a pilot, and how to be an air traffic controller, that don't have explicit penalties for violation (some do, some don't). They're a guide to proper behavior. Same thing with the Flag Code in my view - it's a guide to proper patriotic treatment of the Flag of our Country to show respect. But one aspect is being trumpeted about as a huge political issue while other aspects (just as disrespectful or more IMO) are being ignored. But if you take the position that Federal Codes without explicit penalties are useless or meaningless, obviously that'd be the first point where we disagree.
DC Tom Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: Nothing is more American than a business operating in any way that they deem fit. I agree. I also think that protesting a country that affords you the opportunity to make millions of dollars playing a game is pretty silly. Ultimately, I think this whole story is overblown nonsense, and on my "**** to worry about" list is somewhere back on page 137, after "toenail fungus" and "blogging about that cloud I once saw that looked like Ernest Borgnine."
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